Some details about the World Cup...

[habsrule4eva3089]

Better players doesn't mean better hockey, was the point.

How seriously players actually take the World Cup remains to be seen.

Considering the two previous World Cup's had players playing at their full potential, I like the chances of this being taken seriously, especially with Canada sending it's best 23, on small ice, players at this level play for such competition and you don't get to this level not gearing up for such games. With pretty much most of the World's best players playing, there's got to be quite a bit of doe underneath the table for players to not take this seriously. You think Ovechkin and Malkin are going to stop skating and stop trying to show their offensive brilliance just because their KHL buddies might not be there? No way, this will be an intense competition just like any other international tournament that's taken seriously, players have pride, and what a treat it will be to watch, should be entertaining to say the least!

 

[xxxx]

Question.

If Finland had won the world cup over Canada in 2002 would the silver in Torino still be considered by Finnish fans as their greatest showing as a senior National team?

If I was a Finnish fan - which I am a bit - but if I was truly from Finland, I would put the final game between Canada and Finland at 2004 WC at the same level as the olympic final. Or just one slightly behind the other. I think it was the greatest achievment in histrory at that time in 2004 for Finland, to play the final game at a tournament like that. But of course, I don't know how the fans in Finland really feel about it.

 

[xxxx]

Considering the two previous World Cup's had players playing at their full potential, I like the chances of this being taken seriously, especially with Canada sending it's best 23, on small ice, players at this level play for such competition and you don't get to this level not gearing up for such games. With pretty much most of the World's best players playing, there's got to be quite a bit of doe underneath the table for players to not take this seriously. This will be a competition just like any other international tournament that's taken seriously, and what a treat it will be to watch, should be entertaining to say the least!

There is no reason to not take it seriously, especially not from the players - NHLPA. The only thing that matters now is to get into agreement with the KHL and possibly other european leagues, which, I believe, shouldn't be a problem.

 

[Urbanskog]

Question.

If Finland had won the world cup over Canada in 2002 would the silver in Torino still be considered by Finnish fans as their greatest showing as a senior National team?

Why would it be? A win in an unofficial exhibition tournament means nothing.

 

[Jussi]

Question.

If Finland had won the world cup over Canada in 2002 would the silver in Torino still be considered by Finnish fans as their greatest showing as a senior National team?

There was no World Cup in 2002. And it's pointless to debate since despite the score line, we weren't even close to winning it. We were much closer in 2006 in Turin.

 

[Jussi]

There is no reason to not take it seriously, especially not from the players - NHLPA. The only thing that matters now is to get into agreement with the KHL and possibly other european leagues, which, I believe, shouldn't be a problem.

Some one hasn't been paying attention to Russia in recent years. There's very little chance they (federation and KHL) would be willing to take part in a tournament just as the KHL season is about to begin to take part in a tournament which carries no prestige or financial value to them?

 

[Kalzu]

If I was a Finnish fan - which I am a bit - but if I was truly from Finland, I would put the final game between Canada and Finland at 2004 WC at the same level as the olympic final. Or just one slightly behind the other. I think it was the greatest achievment in histrory at that time in 2004 for Finland, to play the final game at a tournament like that. But of course, I don't know how the fans in Finland really feel about it.

I personally appreciate reaching the WC final very high, almost on the level of reaching the Olympic final. I rate Torino's silver higher because the level at the Olympics is better because the players are already in form plus Finland was even more impressive there than at the WC '04.

But I guess many Finnish casual fans might even say "World Cup, what's that?". And given the small attention the WC got compared to the Olympics and the Worlds, many people don't know what a great event it was and what a great achievement making the final there was.

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

Some one hasn't been paying attention to Russia in recent years. There's very little chance they (federation and KHL) would be willing to take part in a tournament just as the KHL season is about to begin to take part in a tournament which carries no prestige or financial value to them?

Ooo that's a shame, the World was waiting to see what the likes of outstanding defensemen named Medvedev and Nikulin could accomplish vs the best players on small ice.

I mean, most people won't care if they come or not, Russia will still have a better team then any team they'll send to the World Championships considering over 60% of their best players do play in the NHL.

I mean at the end of their day, their missing out on developing future players, playing vs the best, on the smaller rink, double the pace of the game then playing on the larger surface, you can see how some younger players react to high level Hockey other then wasting their time playing the likes of Ak Bars Kazan in a meaningless game in September.

 

[Jussi]

Ooo that's a shame, the World was waiting to see what the likes of outstanding defensemen named Medvedev and Nikulin could accomplish vs the best players on small ice.

I mean, most people won't care if they come or not, Russia will still have a better team then any team they'll send to the World Championships considering over 60% of their best players do play in the NHL.

You might want look into the positional depth of Russian NHL players...

And you do realize that without KHL players Finland and Slovakia would be in even bigger trouble?

 

[habsrule4eva3089]

You might want look into the positional depth of Russian NHL players...

Defense looks thin, I'm sure there's plenty of reinforcements in the KHL.

They'll be fine, it'll be fun to see what the likes of Kuznetsov, Yakupov and Nichushkin will be able to do gaining this experience.

 

[Canuckistani]

Why would it be? A win in an unofficial exhibition tournament means nothing.

Until you win one.

It's why Russians claim the Canada Cup was totally useless...except for that dominating Soviet win in 1981. That meant something apparently.

 

[Jussi]

Defense looks thin, I'm sure there's plenty of reinforcements in the KHL.

They'll be fine, it'll be fun to see what the likes of Kuznetsov, Yakupov and Nichushkin will be able to do gaining this experience.

Might want to look at that center position in addition to the defense. And what about those other countries I mentioned?

 

[Rekin]

Might want to look at that center position in addition to the defense. And what about those countries I mentioned?

I think Finnoslovakia would have a fine team.

 

[Urbanskog]

Until you win one.

It's why Russians claim the Canada Cup was totally useless...except for that dominating Soviet win in 1981. That meant something apparently.

Sorry but there's no way a WC gold would mean more than Olympic silver.

 

[1Gold Standard]

Defense looks thin, I'm sure there's plenty of reinforcements in the KHL.

They'll be fine, it'll be fun to see what the likes of Kuznetsov, Yakupov and Nichushkin will be able to do gaining this experience.

I don't know if I'm missing something in the convo or you are, but I don't think Russian NHLers can show up if their federation wants no part of it..but as far as I understand, the Federation see some value in it, it's the KHL that will be the tough sell...and to be honest, I don't see the KHL agreeing... and without KHL participation, the Federation won't want anything to do with it... just may take from what I'm reading.

 

[JackSlater]

Sorry but there's no way a WC gold would mean more than Olympic silver.

True, winning a best on best tournament cannot compare with losing a best on best tournament.

 

[Urbanskog]

True, winning a best on best tournament cannot compare with losing a best on best tournament.

Even if the best players were there, it's still an unofficial tournament and thus meaningless.

 

[xxxx]

Some one hasn't been paying attention to Russia in recent years. There's very little chance they (federation and KHL) would be willing to take part in a tournament just as the KHL season is about to begin to take part in a tournament which carries no prestige or financial value to them?

I will happily re-post this to you when the agreement is done

 

[SanDogBrewin]

Better players doesn't mean better hockey, was the point.

How seriously players actually take the World Cup remains to be seen.

Yah it was very apparent that the players were skating around half-hearted and not really trying to win. They showed up hoping to medal

That statement trumped the "All-Star" comment

 

[SanDogBrewin]

No it doesn't describe it as an IIHF World Championship. It called the winners "true" world champions, which obviously implies something about the IIHF's own World Championships.

It was never called the World Championship. It was a tournament that featured the world's best players representing their countries. The IIHF calling their tournament a World Championship and then scheduling it against by far the strongest hockey league in the world is more "bogus". Holding a world championship and then missing out on most of the worlds best players is ridiculous.

That is way too much logic. There seems to be a thought process, with some comments, against the World Cup - is that the WC would somehow overtake the WHC in some way. I don't think that is the intent. It's of course money.

I want both, it's more hockey.

 

[xxxx]

Better players doesn't mean better hockey, was the point.

How seriously players actually take the World Cup remains to be seen.

Surely doesn't. Helding a tournament by the IIHF does.

 

[cutchemist42]

I will happily re-post this to you when the agreement is done

It will get done, but it will probably a KHL cut of the profit that we likely never hear about, at least that's my guess. I don't think it will be public knowledge like it is with the WBC.

 

[The Bad Guy*]

Why would it be? A win in an unofficial exhibition tournament means nothing.

Interesting.

But do you think your attitude would be held by the majority of Finnish fans?

Why is the word cup an exhibition tournament?

Is the WHC an exhibition tournament too?

 

[The Bad Guy*]

There was no World Cup in 2002. And it's pointless to debate since despite the score line, we weren't even close to winning it. We were much closer in 2006 in Turin.

just a typo, I know it was in 2004.

easy mistake to make.

 

[JackSlater]

Even if the best players were there, it's still an unofficial tournament and thus meaningless.

This is one of my favourites. Basically the players don't matter, only the governing body does. Absurd. I never knew that some European fans cared so much about bureaucracy, to the point that it overshadowed the actual players.