Softest team in the NHL

[Crazed Beaver]

The whole point is in the first post. They don't have any snarl on defense. No one clears the crease, no one plays physical enough. And before I get misunderstood fyithtygf omfg fhjdghhfg duh he wants goons, no....they need to be more physical and be more noticeable. I'm hoping Ulfie can fix that

Omg, our team is so tough and being a man means turning the other cheek! We block shots like a mother....... !Zucc is so tough, maybe not tough to you but to me and how I define tough he's amazing! Just the other day the little ...... Skated between chara's legs and nut shotted him before he knew what hit him!

I'm so f..... Sick and f..... Tired of you mother........ Coming here and advocating for a tougher lineup! Guess what, in my little pink stat book there is no entry for toughness so can't be to important can it? Besides our players should flop around like the soccer players do, me and my soccer buddies do it all the time. Sure, you say you only want minor changes but we know you want to fill the ........ Roster with ......... Goons like they did in slap shot, don't ya.

 

[stan the caddy]

Personally, I blame the coach for this.

 

[16 To Stanley*]

Omg, our team is so tough and being a man means turning the other cheek! We block shots like a mother....... !Zucc is so tough, maybe not tough to you but to me and how I define tough he's amazing! Just the other day the little ...... Skated between chara's legs and nut shotted him before he knew what hit him!

I'm so f..... Sick and f..... Tired of you mother........ Coming here and advocating for a tougher lineup! Guess what, in my little pink stat book there is no entry for toughness so can't be to important can it? Besides our players should flop around like the soccer players do, me and my soccer buddies do it all the time. Sure, you say you only want minor changes but we know you want to fill the ........ Roster with ......... Goons like they did in slap shot, don't ya.

Well, this post says quite a bit about you as a poster.

 

[Pizza]

Omg, our team is so tough and being a man means turning the other cheek! We block shots like a mother....... !Zucc is so tough, maybe not tough to you but to me and how I define tough he's amazing! Just the other day the little ...... Skated between chara's legs and nut shotted him before he knew what hit him!

I'm so f..... Sick and f..... Tired of you mother........ Coming here and advocating for a tougher lineup! Guess what, in my little pink stat book there is no entry for toughness so can't be to important can it? Besides our players should flop around like the soccer players do, me and my soccer buddies do it all the time. Sure, you say you only want minor changes but we know you want to fill the ........ Roster with ......... Goons like they did in slap shot, don't ya.

**chuckling** Come on now!! I think we can all agree that this is pretty funny. A tad heavy handed, but still funny.

It's all about balance. Right now the Rangers over weight a bit to the small side. And yes, Zucc is one tough little bugger. Not Stan Jonathan kinda tough, but certainly game. I'd just like to have some bigger, meaner players around him.

 

[eco's bones]

So Chara grabs Hagelin and drops his gloves. This imaginary goin we have is certainly not on the ice with Hagelin's line anyway. Hes on the bench. He jumps onto the ice to fight Chara? Its suspension worthy.

Chara grabbing Hagelin to pummel him is not realistic. Chara knocking Hagelin around for going to the front of his net is. As a player anyway Hagelin tends to time his trips to the net. He is not the kind of player that goes there to stay because he can't really handle getting knocked around by 215 lb. defensemen let alone by someone as large as Zdeno. Now if Lucic and Chara were on different teams those two would be having wars over the territory in front of the net.

Now it's true that any team's ability to set up in the front of the opposition net is not the be all end all to winning or not winning. But the Bruins did that to us time and again in the series we played this year. Most of the goals they scored Henrik didn't even see. Stuff ins, deflections, screens. Bruin players knew they could forecheck the bejesus out of us and jam the net and get good opportunities and that's exactly what they did. Rangers had a much more difficult time returning that favor. Chara, McQuaid, Boynton were effective at clearing the crease which gave their goalie Rask much better views of the puck. Many of the Rangers skill forwards are smalller guys and yeah okay Callahan really popped Erskine in the Cap series but Callahan tried to pop Chara a couple years back--bounced off and wound up with a ****ed up shoulder. There's only so much a 190 lb. guy can hope to accomplish against a 260 lb. guy.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Toughness isn't just willingness to fight, it's more about being hard as hell to play against. NYR has a lot of guys who are either too small to be a pain or just don't play that kind of game.

You need guys who are hard to play against. I think it's a valid point to say that NYR is seriously lacking in that department. This team's bottom 6 is a disaster. Every year Sather tries to throw a new bag of crap against the wall and hopes it sticks.

I think this type of argument encapsulates the real problems better than "OMG this team is SOFT."

Looking at the roster as currently constructed, sure, it seems like theres plenty of guys that prefer to avoid contact. But thats not an automatic curse on the season.

What gets me is that the general consensus was the Rangers were trying to build their team in the mold of the Bruins. Where are we headed now? This team, on paper, is very different from the team 2 years ago, yet they still lack in the skill and physicality department compared to the Bruins.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I think this type of argument encapsulates the real problems better than "OMG this team is SOFT."

Looking at the roster as currently constructed, sure, it seems like theres plenty of guys that prefer to avoid contact. But thats not an automatic curse on the season.

What gets me is that the general consensus was the Rangers were trying to build their team in the mold of the Bruins. Where are we headed now? This team, on paper, is very different from the team 2 years ago, yet they still lack in the skill and physicality department compared to the Bruins.

Another good way to avoid getting cheap shotted is having a dominant power play. No team this season was worried about being short handed against the Rangers.

 

[MisterUnspoken]

I'm probably the minority in this one, but I for one am glad they signed actual hockey players to play in the bottom 6 than hacks who can barely hold their sticks.

I'm with you on this one.

 

[Clown Fiesta]

Not saying guys aren't scared in certain situations and there have certainly been feared players in the league, but it's rare that a Chara would target a Hagelin, unless Hagelin was instigating. You don't see much of that anymore, it's not like the tough guys get joy out of pounding on skill guys that can't defend themselves.

Reason those big guys are effective is they target stars with physical but for the most part clean hits. Which generally makes said star shy away.

You need someone who can then step in and settle things down with his fists if necessary.

Rangers drafted McIlrath because they wanted other teams to pay a price for going to the net. Also wanted someone who could make those stars shy away with big hits.

Like I said the only thing guys are really afraid of is the Matt Cooke's. Because most tough guys like Lucic or Thornton for instance have respect for the game. Not saying they can't be dirty but that's not generally the game plan. Maybe if Millbury coached a team.

You need to protect your stars, but the most effective players in my mind for this kind of thing are the Prusts and Dorsetts of the league. As far as actually getting the other team off their game.

 

[Hockeyplayer99]

Gaborik played better when he had toughness in the lineup, he had to fight guys like Carcillo, he shouldn't be fighting, but yet we had no one to protect him. We got toughness for that reason, and yes the Rangers were a better team, they forechecked, they played tough in front of Hank, without toughness McD was getting hit by guys like Pacioriaty and we didn't do anything about that. We are weak and will continue to get pushed around by other teams with the exception of maybe the Florida Panthers. Everyone talks about how you need the skill guys, but if you look at alot of playoff games, the big grinders score goals in playoffs and they score big goals more often then not.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Gaborik played better when he had toughness in the lineup, he had to fight guys like Carcillo, he shouldn't be fighting, but yet we had no one to protect him. We got toughness for that reason, and yes the Rangers were a better team, they forechecked, they played tough in front of Hank, without toughness McD was getting hit by guys like Pacioriaty and we didn't do anything about that. We are weak and will continue to get pushed around by other teams with the exception of maybe the Florida Panthers. Everyone talks about how you need the skill guys, but if you look at alot of playoff games, the big grinders score goals in playoffs and they score big goals more often then not.

If you choose to cherry pick certain plays and certain goals, then yes, they certainly do.

 

[hollenbeezy]

Last I checked, "grit" and "toughness" don't make the puck go in the net.

Having actual hockey players in the bottom six > face punchers.

 

[The Gloaming]

Last I checked, "grit" and "toughness" don't make the puck go in the net.

Having actual hockey players in the bottom six > face punchers.

Ah, yes, because "grit and toughness" can only mean fighting.

 

[doncherrysgrill]

Since the NHL lockout, look at the teams that have represented the Eastern Conference in the SCF. Check out their bottom sixes...tell me that grit and physicality isn't important.

 

[chosen]

People who moan about a lack of toughness on the Rangers holding them back are the same folks who think Colton Orr is a great asset in today's NHL.

Pretty amazed that some still believe this nonsense that died a generation ago.

Ooh those Black Hawks are so tough. Those guys like Toews, Kane, Sharp etc. are merely passengers on the brawling Black Hawks.

 

[Josh3217]

I want the 2011/2012 team back with a different coach.

 

[Callagraves]

How about the video of that 185 pound player injuring his shoulder and becoming ineffective because theres no one to back him up hitting every other team's 230 pound players every night?

I mean, if you want the fight with Talbot that injured his shoulder, I can post that too.

Cally's never injured himself giving a hit. Blocking shots, and a weird accident in a fight.

 

[BroadwayHustle]

I think this grit and snarl/toughness thing has gotten out of hand. At least from what I read and what I remember because this has gone on forever now, the person meant a Sauer, someone who hits and clears the damn crease which is why we miss him so damn much.

Edit: as for forwards we just need to be able to forecheck and win board battles imo

 

[BobMarleyNYR]

Last I checked, "grit" and "toughness" don't make the puck go in the net.

Having actual hockey players in the bottom six > face punchers.

Sorry for using this post as an example...

Of the fact that so many posts ignore toughness, an integral part of ice-hockey, to the degree that you question how intimately people know and follow this game.

ANY CHAMPIONSHIP COACH will tell you that the team that wins is necessarily the TOUGHEST team. 10/10 times. Not to say it's THE reason they win. But they make it that far because they survive the outright battle that is the playoffs--and that's what it is. These guys train their entire lives to win, and when they get to that point, their competitive instincts take over and the mindset is "kill the other guy, then score on him." This is true.

Even during the regular season, in which some teams, players or lines have varying levels of enthusiasm, you absolutely need size, grit, even killer instinct for things like: beating a weaker player to the puck, deflating the attacking energy with a big hit, leaning on attackers to wear them down, intimidation/ranginess on the forecheck, wearing down the D with good cornering/cycling (remember Jagr), shot-blocking (Brian Boyle) etc, etc.. Speed is great but it is not nearly as important as having toughness.

This is hockey. The only tougher sport is rugby.

 

[chosen]

Sorry for using this post as an example...

Of the fact that so many posts ignore toughness, an integral part of ice-hockey, to the degree that you question how intimately people know and follow this game.

ANY CHAMPIONSHIP COACH will tell you that the team that wins is necessarily the TOUGHEST team. 10/10 times. Not to say it's THE reason they win. But they make it that far because they survive the outright battle that is the playoffs--and that's what it is. These guys train their entire lives to win, and when they get to that point, their competitive instincts take over and the mindset is "kill the other guy, then score on him." This is true.

Even during the regular season, in which some teams, players or lines have varying levels of enthusiasm, you absolutely need size, grit, even killer instinct for things like: beating a weaker player to the puck, deflating the attacking energy with a big hit, leaning on attackers to wear them down, intimidation/ranginess on the forecheck, wearing down the D with good cornering/cycling (remember Jagr), shot-blocking (Brian Boyle) etc, etc.. Speed is great but it is not nearly as important as having toughness.

This is hockey. The only tougher sport is rugby.

Your definition of toughness bears no resemblance to the version of the original poster.

 

[eco's bones]

People who moan about a lack of toughness on the Rangers holding them back are the same folks who think Colton Orr is a great asset in today's NHL.

Pretty amazed that some still believe this nonsense that died a generation ago.

Ooh those Black Hawks are so tough. Those guys like Toews, Kane, Sharp etc. are merely passengers on the brawling Black Hawks.

Nothing like making a gross generalization to make your point.

What I find amazing is how so many Rangers posters on this site fail to see the qualities of players (such as Lucic or Chara) that are inherent in their particular individual games and how those inherent qualities can inform or impact on the contests their particular team is involved in. No it was that they were more skilled and nothing else--that's it--seems to go that general argument. Outmuscling us game in game out had not a thing to do with it. I'd agree that the overall skill level of the Bruins team on the whole is a little higher than the Rangers and this is certainly something that can be addressed. I wouldn't agree however that the overall skill level of the Bruins is higher than the overall skill level of the Penguins they faced right after us--yet somehow they dispatched with them even easier than they dispatched with us--so what gives? Is plain overall skill always the overriding the factor or not? I'm sure you have the answer and I'm all eyes and ears waiting for your most enlightened reply.

Next thing you'll be pissing all over the coaching.

 

[richardsequalscup*]

Dumb thread. Skill and depth wins. Chicago was hardly a big team. Their defenseman are smaller and much softer that the Rangers unit. Up front, they have plenty of guys who aren't big at all or play small. They won on skill. Pitts didn't lose to Boston because of toughness. Toughness had absolutely nothing to do with that series. Pitt lost because their goaltending was terrible early in that series and Crosby and Malkin didn't fight through traffic to create offense.

 

[chosen]

Nothing like making a gross generalization to make your point and I think it is you that is genaraizing the topic of toughness.

What I find amazing is how so many Rangers posters on this site fail to see the qualities of players (such as Lucic or Chara) that are inherent in their particular individual games and how those inherent qualities can inform or impact on the contests their particular team is involved in. No it was that they were more skilled and nothing else--that's it--seems to go that general argument. Outmuscling us game in game out had not a thing to do with it. I'd agree that the overall skill level of the Bruins team on the whole is a little higher than the Rangers and this is certainly something that can be addressed. I wouldn't agree however that the overall skill level of the Bruins is higher than the overall skill level of the Penguins they faced right after us--yet somehow they dispatched with them even easier than they dispatched with us--so what gives? Is plain overall skill always the overriding the factor or not? I'm sure you have the answer and I'm all eyes and ears waiting for your most enlightened reply.

Next thing you'll be pissing all over the coaching.

You missed the point.

EVERYONE wants players like Chara and Lucic, although truth be told, Chara sucked in the playoffs that just ended, but that is a separate discussion.

Guys like Lucic are incredibly valuable but they are so rare that he stands almost alone like an island with his skill set. They also are the toughest players to predict success for while in juniors or college.

It's easy to be smart enough to want Lucic. No one will argue with you. Okay, there might be an idiot who tells you that Lucic is nothing. This has nothing to do with toughness as is normally discussed here. Toughness with skill is awesome. Without skill it is near useless other than having one or two forwards like that.

By the way, the Penguins biggest issue against Boston was in net. How many teams in the NHL have worse goaltending than Pitt? The Penguins defense was also below average. Letang is a good one. The rest are ordinary or worse. Also, while Pitt has the two best forwards, the rest of the forwards on Boston are better than the rest of the forwards on Pitt.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Toughness comes in many forms, often based in aggression.

Its more of a mindset than a physical attribute.

 

[Leetch66]

Toughness comes in many forms, often based in aggression.

Its more of a mindset than a physical attribute.

Maybe we can revisit this post after our first regular season games against Toronto and Boston . Both those teams could possibly be considered to be overloaded with toughness . Leafs likely will move somebody out as Clarkson can handle himself and probably will jump in to help a teammate when needed as well .