Softest team in the NHL

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Maybe we can revisit this post after our first regular season games against Toronto and Boston . Both those teams could possibly be considered to be overloaded with toughness . Leafs likely will move somebody out as Clarkson can handle himself and probably will jump in to help a teammate when needed as well .

Whats stopping the Rangers from playing that way as well?

 

[Leetch66]

Whats stopping the Rangers from playing that way as well?

I guess nothing if you figure we have the personnel to match .

 

[eco's bones]

You missed the point.

EVERYONE wants players like Chara and Lucic, although truth be told, Chara sucked in the playoffs that just ended, but that is a separate discussion.

Guys like Lucic are incredibly valuable but they are so rare that he stands almost alone like an island with his skill set. They also are the toughest players to predict success for while in juniors or college.

It's easy to be smart enough to want Lucic. No one will argue with you. Okay, there might be an idiot who tells you that Lucic is nothing. This has nothing to do with toughness as is normally discussed here. Toughness with skill is awesome. Without skill it is near useless other than having one or two forwards like that.

By the way, the Penguins biggest issue against Boston was in net. How many teams in the NHL have worse goaltending than Pitt? The Penguins defense was also below average. Letang is a good one. The rest are ordinary or worse. Also, while Pitt has the two best forwards, the rest of the forwards on Boston are better than the rest of the forwards on Pitt.

I might be missing a bit of your point but I think you've been missing a bit of mine. It annoyed me to hear this crap about Colton Orr who is more or less useless as a player but in another sense skill guys like Christensen, Wolski and even Pyatt on this team are almost as useless as Orr. Uselessness cuts more than just one way and Richards was fast joining that club.

A player like McIlrath is a good way to begin addressing the situation.

 

[Oak]

Many people here made some great points about soo much toughness not being needed, but I would like to see some of the Rangers standing up for each other.

The end of season games against the Habs stand out to me. Habs were bullying the crap out of the Rangers and nobody came in to back each other up. It was very disappointing.

 

[Bleed Ranger Blue]

Many people here made some great points about soo much toughness not being needed, but I would like to see some of the Rangers standing up for each other.

The end of season games against the Habs stand out to me. Habs were bullying the crap out of the Rangers and nobody came in to back each other up. It was very disappointing.

Its a mindset. The 11-12 team had it, the 12-13 team did not.

The fact that Sather flips the roster every few months doesnt particularly help either. Its not easy to throw down for a guy you just met.

 

[Kershaw]

Its a mindset. The 11-12 team had it, the 12-13 team did not.

The fact that Sather flips the roster every few months doesnt particularly help either. Its not easy to throw down for a guy you just met.

this.

 

[Pizza]

I might be missing a bit of your point but I think you've been missing a bit of mine. It annoyed me to hear this crap about Colton Orr who is more or less useless as a player but in another sense skill guys like Christensen, Wolski and even Pyatt on this team are almost as useless as Orr. Uselessness cuts more than just one way and Richards was fast joining that club.

A player like McIlrath is a good way to begin addressing the situation.

This is a point so well made...I wish I'd made it myself.

Balance is what it's all about.

Skill and Toughness are to hockey what words and music are to rock and roll.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

Its a mindset. The 11-12 team had it, the 12-13 team did not.

The fact that Sather flips the roster every few months doesnt particularly help either. Its not easy to throw down for a guy you just met.

HUGE point, and I agree completely.

Yet you'll still see people saying "TRADE THREE PIECES FOR ONE" "SIGN THIS GUY" "TRADE THIS GUY".

 

[Callagraves]

Its a mindset. The 11-12 team had it, the 12-13 team did not.

The fact that Sather flips the roster every few months doesnt particularly help either. Its not easy to throw down for a guy you just met.

PRECISELY.

Toughness isn't size or fighters. It's complete dedication.

 

[NYR2007]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZqzI7-wE0
This has always been the rangers problem. Until the 11-12 rangers i have never seen the rangers stand up for one another. Watch what the broad street bullies say about the rangers .... they realized they can't beat the rangers up and no one was gonna do anything about it.

I never understand why its always been this way. Prob, different rosters all the time and not replacing heart and soul guys when they leave, or for that regard allowing them to leave.

Sauer/Prust/Dubi all players that would drop the gloves when some one throws a dirty hit.

I don't want a goon on the roster, but i want guys that can play and can also drop the gloves and not get beat up if some one throws a dirty hit etc..

 

[egelband]

i think it's a good thing they're staying away from big free agents this summer. maybe the team will gel a bit. would like asham to stay tho

 

[doncherrysgrill]

If you're citing the Blackhawks as proof you can win the cup without size/toughness, WE DON'T PLAY IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE. To even consider getting into the finals you have to go through all of the most physical teams in the NHL. There's a huge difference between the way teams in the Western Conference and Eastern Conference play right now, and if you don't understand that you don't understand hockey. That simple. My post earlier was completely ignored, but seriously examine the bottom 6 on every team that represents the Eastern Conference in the finals since the lockout. There's a formula for winning the East, and the Rangers won't ever have a chance to play for the cup if they can't do it.

 

[chosen]

I might be missing a bit of your point but I think you've been missing a bit of mine. It annoyed me to hear this crap about Colton Orr who is more or less useless as a player but in another sense skill guys like Christensen, Wolski and even Pyatt on this team are almost as useless as Orr. Uselessness cuts more than just one way and Richards was fast joining that club.

A player like McIlrath is a good way to begin addressing the situation.

Again, we all want all-around players, but you have to pay more for them, and there is a salary cap. The problem with the Rangers isn't the way they are complementing their roster. It is with the core of their roster.

On what do you base your view of McIlrath being a good way to address the situation? I have never seen him play, so I have no opinion on his relative worth. All I know for sure is that he likes to fight.

It is troubling, though, that he has not made it yet. Years ago, defensemen were kept in the minors to mature, but because of the cap, young defensemen are all over the NHL. That makes me wonder if he is not all some think he is. If he was talented as well as tough, shouldn't he be here by now?

If he isn't a regular on the Rangers by next season, my guess he is more hype than genuine.

 

[chosen]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hZqzI7-wE0
This has always been the rangers problem. Until the 11-12 rangers i have never seen the rangers stand up for one another. Watch what the broad street bullies say about the rangers .... they realized they can't beat the rangers up and no one was gonna do anything about it.

I never understand why its always been this way. Prob, different rosters all the time and not replacing heart and soul guys when they leave, or for that regard allowing them to leave.

Sauer/Prust/Dubi all players that would drop the gloves when some one throws a dirty hit.

I don't want a goon on the roster, but i want guys that can play and can also drop the gloves and not get beat up if some one throws a dirty hit etc..

What does the Broad Street Bullies have to do with 2013? There is no longer an equivalent to them.

The players you cited could all play hockey. They are valuable because they were physical and they could play. As we learned when Prust got his next contract, you have to pony up for those types. It's not that easy to assemble a roster like that with a cap hanging over your head.

That is why you have to be able to draft well and build from it. You can't be the Yankees in the NHL.

 

[chosen]

If you're citing the Blackhawks as proof you can win the cup without size/toughness, WE DON'T PLAY IN THE WESTERN CONFERENCE. To even consider getting into the finals you have to go through all of the most physical teams in the NHL. There's a huge difference between the way teams in the Western Conference and Eastern Conference play right now, and if you don't understand that you don't understand hockey. That simple. My post earlier was completely ignored, but seriously examine the bottom 6 on every team that represents the Eastern Conference in the finals since the lockout. There's a formula for winning the East, and the Rangers won't ever have a chance to play for the cup if they can't do it.

The Bruins didn't beat the Rangers because they had a more physical bottom 6. It was at least partly because their bottom 6 scored goals, and big goals, to boot.

 

[Dagoon44]

The Bruins didn't beat the Rangers because they had a more physical bottom 6. It was at least partly because their bottom 6 scored goals, and big goals, to boot.

It had nothing to do with the fact hey were bigger and stronger and abused the rangers forwards pinned them in their own zone and scored ? Size wins if you don't see that I am sorry. You want lucic down low or zucc.

 

[Rangers ftw]

It had nothing to do with the fact hey were bigger and stronger and abused the rangers forwards pinned them in their own zone and scored ? Size wins if you don't see that I am sorry. You want lucic down low or zucc.

So how do you explain Hawks beating Bruins then?

And compairing Lucic and Zucca was the best you could come up with? Really?

Size does mather, but it's not everything.

 

[Dagoon44]

You do see the hawks roster correct ? 99% are 6ft or bigger then you have billing and Bickel at 6ft 5 . Listen again I am not stating I want goons I want size that for checks and finishes checks

 

[eco's bones]

Again, we all want all-around players, but you have to pay more for them, and there is a salary cap. The problem with the Rangers isn't the way they are complementing their roster. It is with the core of their roster.

On what do you base your view of McIlrath being a good way to address the situation? I have never seen him play, so I have no opinion on his relative worth. All I know for sure is that he likes to fight.

It is troubling, though, that he has not made it yet. Years ago, defensemen were kept in the minors to mature, but because of the cap, young defensemen are all over the NHL. That makes me wonder if he is not all some think he is. If he was talented as well as tough, shouldn't he be here by now?

If he isn't a regular on the Rangers by next season, my guess he is more hype than genuine.

If you look at his draft class only Hall, Seguin, Skinner (with his at least 3 concussions), Gudbranson and Fowler have really made a mark. Looking at the d-men Gudbranson taken at (#3) has not been able to develop an offensive game. He was rushed into the NHL by a defensively weak Florida team. Fowler (#12) as well was rushed by Anaheim and although he's got a lot of offensive ability--he is not great defensively and is a physical non entity. It's usually best not to rush players and especially defensemen and goalies.

There are a number of players who were rushed that have struggled mightily--Neiderreiter, Johansen, Connolly and a number who have only played a little--some as injury call ups. A few like McIlrath have not played as yet.

Considering that Dylan starts off his pro career rehabbing a displaced kneecap injury it was a bit of a reach we were going to see him last year. Scouting reports have had him improving since his draft day. Taken for what they're worth--he skates very well for a big guy and he's getting bigger and stronger. His adjustment to the AHL seemed to go rather smoothly considering he didn't get to play for the first 3 months. It didn't take him very long to get up to speed. By season's end he was a mainstay if Beacon's reports are anything to go by he was very often one of their better players. He and the team had a dip in play at the very end--comments from Gordie Clark.

Anyway labeling him as a bust or potential bust after one major injury rehabbed rookie pro season is a bit much. I mean really?!!?!!? Big, mean defensemen who skate well-- who are very physical and can fight on a level of an NHL heavyweight and all at the age of 21 are not something that grow on trees either. You think if the Rangers dropped him somebody else wouldn't immediately pick him up and put him in their lineup? He doesn't look at this point to have a ton of offensive upside but he always projected more as a stay at home crease clearer. A defenseman that big--who can skate and has a good sense of his position and is that big and mean and tough is going to play--and barring career ending injury--for a long time. You know some team out there is going to want a player like that.

 

[free0717]

I agree with everything Eco says but McIlrath is still a season away. He is no bust. In the meantime we cut Asham and add Pouliot. That makes us softer. Dorsett is the only real agitator/fighter and he is a middleweight. Even though Boyle is 6'7" and 242 lbs, he cant fight for s**t. Pyatt plays a grinding game but he doesn't fight. I don't know if this makes us the softest team in the league but we are pretty soft.

 

[Noonan25]

Dont think you can call the rangers soft with Cally, Girardi, Staal, Powe, Boyle on a team

How can you call a team soft if they are top 3 in block shots every year?

 

[AlternateSideParking]

Just finish checks. You dont need size or toughness to do that.

Finishing checks takes opponents out of a play, albeit temporarily.

The other piece is having guys who are willing to take hits to finish plays.

 

[HatTrick Swayze]

When most people are complaining about the Rangers being "soft" they are mostly talking about the forwards.

And "soft" in this instance, in my opinion, has nothing to do with lack of heart. Zucc, Stepan, Hagelin all have heart. "Soft" In this context is about the ability to break through physical play in the slot and along the walls to make plays, and about the ability to win the physical war of attrition in the playoffs by consistently hitting and hitting hard.

With Asham likely gone, the Rangers have 3 forwards who you can argue contribute to that consistently. Callahan, Boyle, and Dorsett. Two of those guys are sub-200 lbs. The other you can argue doesn't do it consistently. That is an issue.

And it is a lot easier to get away with being "soft" when you have Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, etc. in your top-6. Anyone think the Rangers are going to out-skate and out-create the other 15 teams in the East? I'm not holding my breath.

 

[eco's bones]

When most people are complaining about the Rangers being "soft" they are mostly talking about the forwards.

And "soft" in this instance, in my opinion, has nothing to do with lack of heart. Zucc, Stepan, Hagelin all have heart. "Soft" In this context is about the ability to break through physical play in the slot and along the walls to make plays, and about the ability to win the physical war of attrition in the playoffs by consistently hitting and hitting hard.

With Asham likely gone, the Rangers have 3 forwards who you can argue contribute to that consistently. Callahan, Boyle, and Dorsett. Two of those guys are sub-200 lbs. The other you can argue doesn't do it consistently. That is an issue.

And it is a lot easier to get away with being "soft" when you have Toews, Kane, Hossa, Sharp, etc. in your top-6. Anyone think the Rangers are going to out-skate and out-create the other 15 teams in the East? I'm not holding my breath.

I can agree with everything above but would add there is a comfort level attained having a Lucic, Chara or even McQuaid in your lineup. These guys can play and they will defend their teammates whenever the need arises and they do it very well. The problem with Asham is that he used to be an okay 3rd-4th liner--given the situation. His skating is no longer up to a pace where he's really more than a bubble player on a good team. I like him but I can see a good reason for getting rid of him. Haley has yet to find a niche as an NHL player and he's 26. At best a 4th liner. More likely to keep up with the play than Asham but if he can't prove he can diversify--become useful in other ways--pk'ing, adding some offense he's no more than a bubble player either. Which leaves Dorsett and I'm sorry whoever believes he's 6' needs to get his eyes examined. 5'10 is more like it and he may be willing but his track record (check out hockeyfights.com) says he's really not able to provide the same level of comfort that any of Chara, Lucic, McQuaid or Thornton provide. He is a legit player however. Can score and can do other things like penalty kill.

 

[Oak]

Its a mindset. The 11-12 team had it, the 12-13 team did not.

The fact that Sather flips the roster every few months doesnt particularly help either. Its not easy to throw down for a guy you just met.

Problem is nobody threw down for McDonagh. He is not new and I think it is not asking much to expect even a Callahan to do something for him. At least a shove or a gloved punch.