So when are people gonna start talking about Zach Hyman?

[Muffin]

I’m all for shitting on the Leafs but Hyman wouldn’t have scored 50 in Toronto.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

There is a very simple explanation as to the stark difference in Hyman’s production for the two teams. Look at the centers with whom he played with for these two teams:

•Matthews, a mediocre passer and playmaker, not even the best on his own team, who relies on his wingers to get HIM the puck and not vice versa.

•McDavid, one of the four greatest playmakers in the history of the sport, whose vision and passing brilliance makes EVERYONE around him better.

Using these facts, its not really hard to see why Hyman is succeeding on the Oilers as opposed to the Leafs.

I think this just highlights the "limitations" with someone like Matthews. He's deadly, but he's not someone who seems to make those around him deadly, like the elite playmakers can.

 

[um]

Objectively, this isn't one of them.

It clearly is.

 

[Sky04]

Meh it's funnier that they signed John Tavares and blew up any chance they had at winning when they already had a group for 4-5 great forwards.

Tavares who has been at a cost of 11M/season for the last 6 years has finished once in the top-20 in scoring (16th).

 

[TS Quint]

I think that downplays how much he’s improved and how important chemistry is. No one else has come close to playing this well with McD, it’s not just a minor bump in stats. Solid overall player, and a fantastic finisher. He’s lucky to have ended up there, but he’s made the most of it through talent and improvement.

Maybe not as well but Maroon went from a career high of 11 goals to 27 with McDavid and never higher than 11 again without McDavid.

 

[Romang67]

In addition to the obvious (Hyman wasn't super productive in the playoffs with the Leafs, the Oilers paid him a lot of money), there is also the tendency for forwards with Hyman's build and play style to drop off the face of the earth in their late 20s.

Hyman seems to have beaten the odds, but I remember worrying more about that aspect than I did his limited production and the paycheck when he signed. I think I said it on here when the deal was signed.

 

[NVious]

Meh it's funnier that they signed John Tavares and blew up any chance they had at winning when they already had a group for 4-5 great forwards.

Tavares who has been at a cost of 11M/season for the last 6 years has finished once in the top-20 in scoring (16th).

The problem is that outside of Nylander and occasionally Rielly, they just don't show up in the playoffs. They are always in a close series, but their 11 million dollar forwards all play like like 6-8 million come playoff time.

You can fault team construction, but at the end of the day it's not even like the players that are in Toronto play remotely close to their potential.

 

[centipede2233]

Another dubas roasting thread? I’m in!

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

Meh it's funnier that they signed John Tavares and blew up any chance they had at winning when they already had a group for 4-5 great forwards.

Tavares who has been at a cost of 11M/season for the last 6 years has finished once in the top-20 in scoring (16th).

The man, the myth, the legend -- John "just wait until he has elite linemates and he'll be a perennial scoring champion threat" Tavares.

It's almost like ... the fantasy of what type of player he is never matched the reality of what he is. Who would have predicted that, other than those of us who never saw Tavares as being "just a slight notch below Crosby".

 

[NVious]

I think this just highlights the "limitations" with someone like Matthews. He's deadly, but he's not someone who seems to make those around him deadly, like the elite playmakers can.

He's not even deadly come playoff time. Some other Leaf forwards:

Sundin had 25 goals in his first 55 playoff games with the Leafs
Kessel had 27 goals in his first 55 playoff games
Kadri had 19 goals in 52 playoff games

Matthews has 23 goals in 55 games, his g/60 come playoff time is 30th in the league. That's insane when in the season he is BY FAR the leader in g/60 at 2 which goes down to 1.15 in the playoffs.

 

[Gorskyontario]

Hymen is better than Matthews, Marner and Tavares combined. He has more playoff goals than all 3 combined.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

This feels like a blatant "Anti-Leafs" post, and while I like those sometimes, this one isn't really a fair one.

1. They had a lot of higher skilled forwards under contract and were close to capped out. At the time, I don't know if anyone, on HF or outside of HF, would have selected to keep Hyman over Marner or Nylander. Matthews is the centrepiece there, and Tavares was never going to be moved at that time due to his contract - not that the Leafs were interested in moving him yet.

2. He was a free agent and many thought the contract he was given was a gamble. The Leafs obviously didn't feel they could gamble on a guy who was important to them, but not one of their main core guys.

Basically, Hyman's success came out of nowhere. He was a good NHL'er, but nobody predicted he would score over 50 even while playing with McDavid, or that he could be on pace to get close to 20 in a single playoff run after 3 rounds of the playoffs. In Edmonton, we hoped he could be a 30-35 goal scorer as a grinding net front presense beside McDavid. He has exceeded that.

Well it is a blatant Anti-Leafs post. And that's totally fine.

The Leafs suck, straight up. I'm a fan, I'll continue to be a fan and I'm at the point now that you know what? There is no defending this team.

But for real, that was a risky contract to give Hyman. That risk has absolutely been incredibly rewarding. Couldn't happen to a better guy.

 

[voxel]

Oilers Hyman is much better than Leafs Hyman. I don't think it was that clear as day as it seems when the signing was done.

It's like reverse Lupul.

 

[SmoggyTwinkles]

Hymen is better than Matthews, Marner and Tavares combined. He has more playoff goals than all 3 combined.

We can only hope that it's the system. That Marner gets punted to the moon. And Berube just somehow figures it out.

Otherwise, it's gonna feel like another wasted decade, let's try again type shit.

 

[TS Quint]

End of the day, narrative gunna narrative. When Hyman left he wasn't a playoff performer, same with Kadri in fact he got suspended 3 years in a row being an idiot.

They made it deep so now the narrative changes. If the Leafs make it on a deep run, suddenly the narrative changes from they let all these guys go to they made the right changes and kept the right guys.

That's sports. End of the day, they weren't doing it here. Next guy to be on this list is Marner IMO.

No, the Oilers pay big money to have McDavid and Drai drive the team and they do. This is what Matthews, Marner and Nylander should be doing for the size of their contracts and they don't. Don't blame the guy making $2.5m for the playoffs when the guys making 8 digits are shitting the bed.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

At what point will people and leafs fans realise its not the players...its not the coach....its not the gm....boys...its the crest. Chalk it up

 

[Sky04]

The man, the myth, the legend -- John "just wait until he has elite linemates and he'll be a perennial scoring champion threat" Tavares.

It's almost like ... the fantasy of what type of player he is never matched the reality of what he is. Who would have predicted that, other than those of us who never saw Tavares as being "just a slight notch below Crosby".

People keep shitting on Marner but if John Tavares came to my team and signed for 11M a season and I'm massively outperforming him yeah I'm getting my due too.

 

[macleafs]

Maybe Hyman should have bet on himself like most 40/50 goals scorers would have. Was Edmonton smarter than 31 other teams or is Hyman dumber than most goal scorers?

 

[HanSolo]

It clearly is.

Context matters. Read the thread. I don't need to regurgitate the same analysis that's already been provided.

 

[OilerTyler]

In addition to the obvious (Hyman wasn't super productive in the playoffs with the Leafs, the Oilers paid him a lot of money), there is also the tendency for forwards with Hyman's build and play style to drop off the face of the earth in their late 20s.

Hyman seems to have beaten the odds, but I remember worrying more about that aspect than I did his limited production and the paycheck when he signed. I think I said it on here when the deal was signed.

I remember people citing players like Ladd, Eriksson, Richards, Lucic, Dustin Brown as evidence that Hyman would fall off but each of those players had played 4-500 more NHL games than Hyman has at the same age. Zach was a late bloomer and had never been on a deep playoff run so he had way less wear and tear on his body than the comparables.

 

[Oilslick941611]

Marner is good play maker for sure but yes I can smile reading your comment. Good luck in playoffs look forward to an exciting final. Two teams that earned it and both should put on a show.

Go through my post history if you don't believe me, but I've said the Vancouver Canucks were a tougher out than the Stars. They played the right way tough and fast. The step down in intensity vs the Stars was almost alarming vs the series vs the Kings and Canucks. Im sure the final will be a barn burner.

Some similarities to when Habs "threw in" LeClair with Desjardins to Philly... and LeClair went on to be a prolific scorer with Lindros.

Hyman has the same luck, playing with an exceptional player to bolster his stats as such he would never achieve otherwise.

yes "luck"

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

There is not a single person on this forum who thought that Zach Hyman would achieve the heights that he has. Massive, massive respect to the man who has improved every year throughout his career in a way that no other player I have ever seen. Playing with McDavid helps his numbers, but anyone with eyeballs can also tell you that he's not the same player he was when he wore the Leaf, much like how he improved dramatically even while he was a Leaf.

We pay too much money to our core stars and that has caused us to hemorrhage quality depth over the years. Hyman was a useful, but not indispensable piece who struggled to produce in the playoffs, had an injury history with two bad ones in his final years as a Leaf, and ultimately signed a contract that will pay him until he's 36 years old. He had 33 points (43 games) his last year with us and 1p in 7 games his final playoff run. Plenty of us wanted to keep him, but I think that most of us saw that contract and said, "woof, glad it wasn't us."

Well, we were right to be glad about Campbell, wrong to be glad about Hyman. As above, tip your hats to the player who has shattered all expectations and raised his game to a new stratosphere. Zach Hyman is a 50 goal scorer!

This feels like a blatant "Anti-Leafs" post, and while I like those sometimes, this one isn't really a fair one.

1. They had a lot of higher skilled forwards under contract and were close to capped out. At the time, I don't know if anyone, on HF or outside of HF, would have selected to keep Hyman over Marner or Nylander. Matthews is the centrepiece there, and Tavares was never going to be moved at that time due to his contract - not that the Leafs were interested in moving him yet.

2. He was a free agent and many thought the contract he was given was a gamble. The Leafs obviously didn't feel they could gamble on a guy who was important to them, but not one of their main core guys.

Basically, Hyman's success came out of nowhere. He was a good NHL'er, but nobody predicted he would score over 50 even while playing with McDavid, or that he could be on pace to get close to 20 in a single playoff run after 3 rounds of the playoffs. In Edmonton, we hoped he could be a 30-35 goal scorer as a grinding net front presense beside McDavid. He has exceeded that.

Didn’t realize y’all had nailed it already- folks, think back to when it happened. No one criticized letting him walk, some people thought oilers overpaid. Remember that? Many leafs fans wanted him back, sure, but the money wasn’t there and the price was seen as too much for the player he was. Again, that was damned near universal, absolutely no one called it a huge mistake.

I think the more interesting question is how Matthews and Marner felt about losing Hyman, and how McD and Drai felt in getting him on board. It’s possible Matthews and Marner loved the dude and fought for him to stay, but I kinda wonder. Could be reading too much into it, but McD’s love of the grit guy is just kinda in stark contrast to whatever Matthews and Marner seem to enjoy.

 

[HockeyVirus]

No, the Oilers pay big money to have McDavid and Drai drive the team and they do. This is what Matthews, Marner and Nylander should be doing for the size of their contracts and they don't. Don't blame the guy making $2.5m for the playoffs when the guys making 8 digits are shitting the bed.

Yes because the big boys have escaped any critics or blame right? Smh.

Putting this thread on ignore

 

[mydnyte]

Hindsight is 20/20. I am not a big Dubas fan but he was hardly a playoff performer with the Leafs and the risk with him was not so much the cap hit, but the term. The prevailing thinking at the time was that Hyman's play style and recent injuries would make him a highly overpaid player.

When you overpay your stars -- you lose the flexibility to take such risks. It's unfortunate.

Hyman loved being a Leaf, and he and his family were from Toronto. He tried to make it work.

he didnt try, he was offered a bigger deal, and took the $$
on the Leafs he was nothing special, and actually stagnated the offense because he didnt have decent hands yet, ...then he got a lot better.

 

[Mattilaus]

Different players perform differently in different environments. At one point the Sabres had ROR, Eichel, E.Kane, Reinhart, okposo, and Rodriguez. The first 2 both lead their teams to cups as #1 centres, the other 4 are currently in the cup final. If we are going to pretend every player always becomes their best self regardless of situation the Sabres should have been cup contenders.