So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[AreBe]

For such a structured defensive minded coach , why is it that we are so poor defensively most of the time ?
...
I’m probably the minority , but I really truly think we can win in this day and age and the way hockey is without its obstruction with a high flying approach , I really do , it’s never been done since the oilers , I mean the way we are made up with the talent we have let’s try that approach ..
Can you imagine those Oiler teams now without the thuggery and obstruction and ability to stand in front of the net without being killed there ?

Brilliant, logical, well reasoned. Be prepared to take a lot of flak from Leafs Nation and the penalty box sitting is good crowd.

This team is built for shinny- Harlem Globetrotters on ice.
Three key ingredients: Speed, speed and speed.
The Leafs are supposed to be a little Soviet Red Army team, rolling 4 lines, wave after wave of attack.

The Leafs are built to be free- wheeling and they are restrained by a systems coach.

OK. I would prefer position-less hockey, but part of the deal is that they know how to cover 2 on 1s, get back on defense with gusto, and that is why they roll 4 lines. (Must be an assumption that they suck on 2 on 1's and it must be practiced always,)

 

[GoonieFace]

Brilliant, logical, well reasoned. Be prepared to take a lot of flak from Leafs Nation and the penalty box sitting is good crowd.

This team is built for shinny- Harlem Globetrotters on ice.
Three key ingredients: Speed, speed and speed.
The Leafs are supposed to be a little Soviet Red Army team, rolling 4 lines, wave after wave of attack.

The Leafs are built to be free- wheeling and they are restrained by a systems coach.

OK. I would prefer position-less hockey, but part of the deal is that they know how to cover 2 on 1s, get back on defense with gusto, and that is why they roll 4 lines. (Must be an assumption that they suck on 2 on 1's and it must be practiced always,)

Sounds like a great recipe to get knocked out of the playoffs early every year.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Its not just Babcock. Dubas made the team softer. Burke and Wilson not on the same page. Randy and Nonis were not. The problem goes all the way back to JFJ and Maurice even. Larry T. Meddles I this team and they have so many consultants and this and that, stupid bloated organization. Hockey teams need a damn smart GM that is a dictator and a damn smart coach that is on the same page. Dubas and Babcock are not on the same page, that I know. Then you have a layer cakr of voices, recipe for bankruptcy and they would be anywhere else but Toronto.

New coach that will have the same vision as Dubas will be in the step in the right direction.

Divisive minds in any organization is a breed for underperformance.

If this goes on past this season and we are not in the finals this is on Shanny being complacent

 

[Gary Nylund]

Sounds like a great recipe to get knocked out of the playoffs early every year.

Yes. best we stay on the course that's had us consistently going deep for a number of years now. Oh wait ...

New coach that will have the same vision as Dubas will be in the step in the right direction.

Divisive minds in any organization is a breed for underperformance.

If this goes on past this season and we are not in the finals this is on Shanny being complacent

Certainly seems logical.

 

[thewave]

New coach that will have the same vision as Dubas will be in the step in the right direction.

Divisive minds in any organization is a breed for underperformance.

If this goes on past this season and we are not in the finals this is on Shanny being complacent

Absolutely 100% on Shanahan.

 

[AreBe]

Sounds like a great recipe to get knocked out of the playoffs early every year.

Well, that's the unhappy fate of the teams in the Canadian Branch Plant Division of the American Association of US Ice Hockey Teams.

Boston can spray us with fire extinguishers. We get a penalty for making mean faces.

Sucks.
For our American opponent: well, they cannot call everything!
For the Leafs: Well, it's a penalty, so you do the crime you do the time.

See game 2 last year for confirmation.

The answer? 4 high speed high skill lines and wave after wave of attack, like the Soviet Red Army team .

For clarity: I truly regret being right on this.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Brilliant, logical, well reasoned. Be prepared to take a lot of flak from Leafs Nation and the penalty box sitting is good crowd.

This team is built for shinny- Harlem Globetrotters on ice.
Three key ingredients: Speed, speed and speed.
The Leafs are supposed to be a little Soviet Red Army team, rolling 4 lines, wave after wave of attack.

The Leafs are built to be free- wheeling and they are restrained by a systems coach.

OK. I would prefer position-less hockey, but part of the deal is that they know how to cover 2 on 1s, get back on defense with gusto, and that is why they roll 4 lines. (Must be an assumption that they suck on 2 on 1's and it must be practiced always,)

Great points

 

[ToMaLe]

Is that really true, and does it matter?

4 of those seasons were with the Leafs, and the first 3 were kinda expected. Last year was a big miss.

When I first read it I thought you meant that NONE of the other 30 coaches had not got out of the 1st round, but now I think you mean only coaches who have been there for 7 years. It was Dallas Eakins that immediately made me think it was wrong.

Well if you want your team to win in the playoffs, yes it matters. Personally I want a coach that has won something in the playoffs in this new era of the NHL, or coaches in line with the new era NHL, that’s how this team is built. So either trade all your players to suit your coach or fire the coach and get one that will suit your team. The logical choice is pretty simple really. You have to have all management and coaches on the same page. Right now they could not be farther apart.

 

[Walshy7]

Take it outside Gary and BudJT

no im waiting to see how many more times they can use the word merit between them, cant you see the merit in that?

 

[Kiwi]

New coach that will have the same vision as Dubas will be in the step in the right direction.

Divisive minds in any organization is a breed for underperformance.

If this goes on past this season and we are not in the finals this is on Shanny being complacent

As far as I'm concerned Dubas has about the same amount of cache as Babcock, if everybody within the organization has to think like he does about team building and he can't take a bit of push back he's not the right person for the job

Diversity, including a differing POV is supposed a strength within this organization according to Dubas himself

 

[AreBe]

Well if you want your team to win in the playoffs, yes it matters. Personally I want a coach that has won something in the playoffs in this new era of the NHL, or coaches in line with the new era NHL, that’s how this team is built. So either trade all your players to suit your coach or fire the coach and get one that will suit your team. The logical choice is pretty simple really. You have to have all management and coaches on the same page. Right now they could not be farther apart.

Leafs team built on three ingredients: speed, speed and speed. The Leafs are built for shinny.
Leafs coach- slow it down, easy does it systems. Go slow and methodically plod through the game.

 

[thewave]

Leafs team built on three ingredients: speed, speed and speed. The Leafs are built for shinny.
Leafs coach- slow it down, easy does it systems. Go slow and methodically plod through the game.

Really makes you wonder if Shanahan understands team construction or the game he played all along.

Babcock Dubas = fire and water

 

[Walshy7]

As far as I'm concerned Dubas has about the same amount of cache as Babcock, if everybody within the organization has to think like he does about team building and he can't take a bit of push back he's not the right person for the job

Diversity, including a differing POV is supposed a strength within this organization according to Dubas himself

yes within in the orginization but not the coach, that leads to lineup decisions that effect the team. Pushback needs to happen in the aquiring of the players not after they are here. Dubas' plan wont work with babcock he has been given a chance with it and failed time for a new coach, you cant judge him until he hires a coach that he thinks will help him achive his goal.

Right now Dubas built a ferrari and Babcock is driving it like a 1980's volvo

 

[Matthews34]

How has Babcock done a poor job of getting the best out of our players the past 10 months?

If this is the best our players have to offer then we should start the rebuild all over again because it has failed.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

For such a talented and offensively gifted team...we don't really score all that much. For a team full of puck moving defensemen and a skilled 3rd and 4th line...we don't score as much as you would hope.

I was on the "Don't sign Muzzin when he is a UFA" train until I saw how important he is. He is literally the ONLY D-man that can actually play defense. All these midget puck movers that Dubas has drafted won't be able to get out of their own zone if they never stop the cycle. You need to pair up the puck movers with a shutdown guy...I don't care if he gets 5pts a year...I just want him to be able to play defense and be able to make a simple pass...thats it...let Reilly get all the points he wants...but get a guy who can cover for his very serious lack of awareness on defense. Watching him play in his own zone is almost comical at times...maybe it's Babs and his stupid system....I don't know..but watch next time when he is at OUR blueline chasing some guy with the puck...our blue line...my God..

Finally someone who gets it ... 3 puck movers to play with 3 defenders ... that is the winning ticket ... Muzzy and Holl look like solid defenders ... we need 1 more ... Rielly Dermy and Sandin will be our puck movers next year ... Ceci I am still up in air about ... if he was more physical I would be ok but he is still a little soft for me for a big man

 

[Kiwi]

yes within in the orginization but not the coach, that leads to lineup decisions that effect the team. Pushback needs to happen in the aquiring of the players not after they are here. Dubas' plan wont work with babcock he has been given a chance with it and failed time for a new coach, you cant judge him until he hires a coach that he thinks will help him achive his goal.

Right now Dubas built a ferrari and Babcock is driving it like a 1980's volvo

No Walshy, you think he's built a Ferrari, it's easy to blame the coach but it's still very much up for debate if a team with this little physicality or emotional output can win anything

The GM gives the coach the players, the coach can have an opinion but that's very much the GM's job and is it's Babcock's fault Barrie sucks and Ceci basically had to play on the top pair because we didn't have anybody else, The backup goaltender? Not really

 

[ToMaLe]

yes within in the orginization but not the coach, that leads to lineup decisions that effect the team. Pushback needs to happen in the aquiring of the players not after they are here. Dubas' plan wont work with babcock he has been given a chance with it and failed time for a new coach, you cant judge him until he hires a coach that he thinks will help him achive his goal.

Right now Dubas built a ferrari and Babcock is driving it like a 1980's volvo

Or like I said before, it’s like hitching a thoroughbred racehorse to a hay cart. Sure you will get your hay to market, but you could be doing a whole lot better with what you got.

 

[Walshy7]

No Walshy, you think he's built a Ferrari, it's easy to blame the coach but it's still very much up for debate if a team with this little physicality or emotional output can win anything

The GM gives the coach the players, the coach can have an opinion but that's very much the GM's job and is it's Babcock's fault Barrie sucks and Ceci basically had to play on the top pair because we didn't have anybody else, The backup goaltender? Not really

it’s also not dubas fault Barrie sucks? Barrie had over 60 points last year, so actually perhaps it is Babcocks fault Barrie sucks he is a pp qb not being used on our top pp. Rielly has been struggling for form and with apparent niggling injury this season Barrie should ha even on top pp for a while now. That is a coaches decision

 

[Kiwi]

it’s also not dubas fault Barrie sucks? Barrie had over 60 points last year, so actually perhaps it is Babcocks fault Barrie sucks he is a pp qb not being used on our top pp. Rielly has been struggling for form and with apparent niggling injury this season Barrie should ha even on top pp for a while now. That is a coaches decision

We have a PP QB that's better than Barrie, is Babcock supposed to put the lesser player out there instead? Because let's not kid ourselves Rielly is the better player

Barrie is getting PP time, he's had some talent to play with on the 2nd unit including Nylander at times and it's done absolutely nothing and doesn't look like doing anything

Barrie sucking isn't Babcock's fault

 

[Buds17]

it’s also not dubas fault Barrie sucks? Barrie had over 60 points last year, so actually perhaps it is Babcocks fault Barrie sucks he is a pp qb not being used on our top pp. Rielly has been struggling for form and with apparent niggling injury this season Barrie should ha even on top pp for a while now. That is a coaches decision

Gardiner seemed to produce fine with secondary PP time. I figured Barrie's production would at least be in line with that considering the ES usage should also be similar. Realistically, the defensive depth will allow the time for Barrie to rediscover his previous form. I'm still hopeful that he will.

 

[rimshot]

We have a PP QB that's better than Barrie, is Babcock supposed to put the lesser player out there instead? Because let's not kid ourselves Rielly is the better player

Barrie is getting PP time, he's had some talent to play with on the 2nd unit including Nylander at times and it's done absolutely nothing and doesn't look like doing anything

Barrie sucking isn't Babcock's fault

You just don't get it do you? Everything is Babcock's fault. If the forwards do not support the defense, then Babcock should devise a system so that they don't have to. If the defense can't move the puck out of their own end then Babcock is making them play the wrong kind of defensive system. If the goaltender stinks the place out, it is on Babcock to correctly manage his playing time. It can never be the failure of the players to perform the jobs that they are paid an outrageous amount of money to do. No, it must be Babcock's failure to "motivate" them, to get them up for games, or insert cliche here.

 

[Teeder Keon]

 

[kk87]

Bottom line is, regardless of how any given fan or coach thinks hockey should be played, our team is built to play a high-tempo, fast paced, skill-based game. The higher scoring the game, the lower the variance; as more goals are scored, the better team becomes more likely to win. That’s just how our team’s built, plain and simple. That’s our identity, and it shouldn’t be a coach’s place to change that.

 

[AreBe]

Bottom line is, regardless of how any given fan or coach thinks hockey should be played, our team is built to play a high-tempo, fast paced, skill-based game. The higher scoring the game, the lower the variance; as more goals are scored, the better team becomes more likely to win. That’s just how our team’s built, plain and simple. That’s our identity, and it shouldn’t be a coach’s place to change that.

Agreed.
We have a team full of Ivan Svenskys and the fans and the coach want Patrick O'Thuggo.

 

[GoonieFace]

Agreed.
We have a team full of Ivan Svenskys and the fans and the coach want Patrick O'Thuggo.

I would trade anything for Patrick O’Thuggo. Is he still playing on a line with Steve McKnuckles?