go look at the players the pens and avs lost to injury this year.... even the isles during the win streak is without 5 regular forwards and probably their second best d man.
excuses are for chumps
So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)
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go look at the players the pens and avs lost to injury this year.... even the isles during the win streak is without 5 regular forwards and probably their second best d man.
excuses are for chumps
Let's put it in terms that people around here can actually follow.
The Leafs are built like an 80's speed scoring team (see: the Oilers and the Flames). But they have a coach who prefers 90's brand hockey instead (see: the Devils).
GoonieFace
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Problem is this isnt the 80's, you cannot win meaningful games that way. Teams get suffocated at the end of the season and playoffs. They need to tidy up their all around play before they can take that next step. It may not look pretty but thats the only way to be successful, and the younger core guys need to realize this.
The biggest thing for me is how he wants us to get the puck out of the defensive zone. There's a lot of stretch passes down the ice to the forwards. I'd rather have our forwards back and make shorter passes to give them the puck. Or let our D carry the puck a lot more. I feel like Barrie could be doing so much more. Its a waste of his talent to always fire the puck up the ice. Let him skate and use his offensive talent. Sure, it might backfire sometimes, but I still think it would do a lot of good too.
He should also be playing our star players more. Why does he think Matthews can't play 21 minutes a night or so? He has been playing more this year, but I think part of that was because Tavares was injured.
Don't even get me started on the powerplay either. It looks awful. I know this isn't necessarily all on Babcock, but still. Try some new things. Put Nylander on the first powerplay. Let the players move around more. Play them longer on the powerplay.
I honestly don't know if any of my suggestions would even work. Maybe Babcock is completely right in his coaching. We just don't know because he's extremely stubborn and rarely tries new things.
Nithoniniel
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Yeah. I just think it's the coaches job to take the strengths of his team and mold a system and tactics to get the most out of them. Not try and shape the players so they fit his.
It doesn't have to be 'run and gun'-hockey necessarily. Just playing a style that puts a premium on skill and speed. I've said this before but the last few years we are one of the teams that rely on dump-ins the most which is insane given the roster we have.
Nithoniniel
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MyBudJT
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Nithoniniel
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It's a very, very simple post. Go back and read it again.
MyBudJT
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I'll rephrase my question...
How are they hiding their weaknesses rather than playing to their strengths??
Are you suggesting we should be winning games 8-6 instead of 2-1??
Again, getting back to my initial response.... is it not possible that Babcock is trying to work the kinks out of our team, and instill habits that will ultimately lead to more success down the road? Perhaps the systems we play now will not be the systems we play come playoff time, but will help us become a more effective team???
MyBudJT
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I appreciate the effort and thoughtful response, thanks!
Maybe its just me, but I don't see us doing the breakout stretch pass nearly as much as we did last season....
I think the minutes things has been pretty clear in past years.... There is no point in overworking players in October and November. Come March, April, and hopefully May, June I think we will see an increase in minutes to our star players. Its a trend we've been seeing each of the past few seasons.
With the PP, I'd like us to see us go back to the 1A 1B system. I think Matthews needs to have a system more geared to his shot, and Marner needs to have a system more geared towards fluid unit and finding the open seam.
No, you're right I think. We have cut down on it. I still think we could be utilizing Barrie, and others, better though by letting them carry the puck more.
Have we though? I don't think Babcock actually changes much come playoff time. Plus, I always wonder how much of a toll a minute or two extra a game for the whole season actually takes on players, particularly younger players. Obviously there's no way to know for sure, but I always felt like its been overrated, especially come playoff time where everyone has a ton of adrenaline pumping.
I agree with you about the PP. I'd try it. We've got a ton of star power but our PP has not been good so I feel like its wasted throwing everyone on the first line.
I'll rephrase my question...
How are they hiding their weaknesses rather than playing to their strengths??
Are you suggesting we should be winning games 8-6 instead of 2-1??
Again, getting back to my initial response.... is it not possible that Babcock is trying to work the kinks out of our team, and instill habits that will ultimately lead to more success down the road? Perhaps the systems we play now will not be the systems we play come playoff time, but will help us become a more effective team???
Sometimes people simply mean what they say and that's it. You're digging for an argument that wasn't being made.
KuleminFan41
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You cannot discount Mike Babcock's work in the 16-17 season getting nominated for a Jack Adams by making the playoffs with the Leafs and having a significantly worse team than they do now. I would never suggest Babcock shouldn't be criticized, but you can't ignore that season because you're mad at him now. That team had a defensive core of Carrick, Rielly, Gardiner, Hunwick, Polak , Zaitsev and Marincin and made the playoffs while giving Washington a scare by going up 2-1 in the series
At the end of the day, its still too early to tell if the Islanders are going to make the playoffs this season. Yes, they made it last year but 1 season wonders do happen. Barry Trotz did fail to make the playoffs with a good team in Nashville(back to back seasons) and the Preds made the cup finals before he did with Washington . I find it amusing you used Claude Julien as another example, the same guy who missed the playoffs twice with a strong Bruins team and got fired midseason where his replacement reached the playoffs. You made the comment about Babcock being tuned out as proof he's not a good coach , well can't the same be said for Claude Julien and Barry Trotz? lol
MyBudJT
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Yup
2017-18 up to Feb 28
Rielly - 22:47
Marner - 19:39
Tavares - 19:03
Matthews - 18:21
2017-18 from Mar 1st on
Rielly - 24:20
Marner - 20:26
Tavares - 19:12 (Not a huge increase, I'm surprised)
Matthews - 19:07
2017-18 Playoffs
Rielly - 25:05
Marner - 20:35
Matthews - 19:47
Tavares - 19:40
MyBudJT
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I don't appreciate being accused of that. Thats not what I'm doing, I'm trying to understand the vague statement.
Apparently I mis-interpreted it once already... maybe twice... so I'll ask for a third? time below:
This time I wont try to interpret/understand this post...I'll simply ask:
How is this team playing to hide their weakness, rather than shape the game according to their strengths?
MyBudJT
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MattySnipes
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Why can't Babcock incorporate a high-flying offense with aggressive forecheck as well as dmen pinching along with solid 5-man team defense? That would be the perfect balance for this team. Maybe that's the goal and they're not there yet? I don't know.
I'll take a win anyday but it seems these 2-1 or 3-2 wins is too close for comfort. We have such deadly offensive talent it seems like it's being minimized/wasted/neutralized in turn for tight defensive play.
I get the potential lessons, etc. Just hope this is not a style that is made permanent.
I'll take a win anyday but it seems these 2-1 or 3-2 wins is too close for comfort. We have such deadly offensive talent it seems like it's being minimized/wasted/neutralized in turn for tight defensive play.
I get the potential lessons, etc. Just hope this is not a style that is made permanent.
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Dreakmur
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Too many passive checkers for that to work. It’s not even about hitting, it’s about hard puck pressure. Too many guys wait for the game to happen and not enough who make it happen.
Dreakmur
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Why do you think he believes that? His system certainly does not follow that line of thinking, not do any of his commments.
MattySnipes
Registered User
I don't care about hits either. Zero. For me it's all puck pressure and reading the play. Play smart. Not hard.
I've seen them put on the pressure over the years but with the Leafs, like always, it's an issue of consistency. They are consistently inconsistent.
His comments do. Ugly being beautiful, happy that they didn't press the attack or take chances.
Dreakmur
Registered User
Our guys have trouble with the simple stuff defensively. What kinda miracle do you want Babs to pull? The puck support in our own end is so brutal. I taught 12 year olds to support the puck better than these guys are doing. A lot of the criticism directed at Babcock belongs on the shoulders of the players, because I can assure you, Babs isn’t teaching them to play like that.
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