So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[Matthews34]

if your problem with Babs is that he wants a hard working group of guys, and that seems to be what you’re saying, basically saying “work smarter, not harder”, then you’re as lost as I made you out to be with my response. I understood you, but this isn’t a desk job or a warehouse job. Hard work is the way to winning Cups. Plain and simple

What I has saying is hard work without proper direction is just your spinning wheels and you go no where so no you did not comprehend my point at all!!! You can work your ass off all you want if the direction is wrong you won't go any where and the players know that and that's why aren't buying in anymore. They did at first but it's clear now they see it as fruitless effort which is the worst feeling.

 

[Gary Nylund]

You keep going off on tangents, man.

Again, I've only been talking about Babcock's of having players play well under him. I'll remind you, the statement I've been debating has been "bottom line is every player that comes to Toronto seem to be a shadow of their former selves".

I disproved this.

I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT PLAYER PERFORMANCE UNDER BABCOCK, NOT TEAM PERFORMANCE. (See, I can bold things and enlarge font too)

If you want to look at team performance in the last 10 months, we are 24-9-8 when Andersen has started. Clearly back-up goal-tending has been our largest issue... but of course people like you will ignore that and claim that everything bad comes from the coach. Actually, we are 115-55-28 with Andersen starting since he came to Toronto. Not too shabby, eh?

LMAO tangents, you're funny.

All I did in my post was point out that we've played more than 15 games in the last 10 months, that's it. Your response completely ignored what I said, you're going on and on you're the one talking about tangents?

Go get some fresh air or something, sheesh.

 

[MyBudJT]

LMAO tangents, you're funny.

All I did in my post was point out that we've played more than 15 games in the last 10 months, that's it. Your response completely ignored what I said, you're going on and on you're the one talking about tangents?

Go get some fresh air or something, sheesh.

How has Babcock done a poor job of getting the best out of our players the past 10 months?

 

[Teeder Keon]

You keep going off on tangents, man.

Again, I've only been talking about Babcock's of having players play well under him. I'll remind you, the statement I've been debating has been "bottom line is every player that comes to Toronto seem to be a shadow of their former selves".

I disproved this.

I HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT PLAYER PERFORMANCE UNDER BABCOCK, NOT TEAM PERFORMANCE. (See, I can bold things and enlarge font too)

If you want to look at team performance in the last 10 months, we are 24-9-8 when Andersen has started. Clearly back-up goal-tending has been our largest issue... but of course people like you will ignore that and claim that everything bad comes from the coach. Actually, we are 115-55-28 with Andersen starting since he came to Toronto. Not too shabby, eh?

Anderson has truly been a rock wall for us since he’s been here .. no doubt about it ...
If he continues to be what he has been , he will go down as the 3rd best after Broda and Bower
I know I know some of you will point out some of his playoff bad goals and games
But I can’t imagine us the way we play defensively in front of him how we would be now , whew
He has hidden a lot of stains that we have produced ...
On a side note lol
For such a structured defensive minded coach , why is it that we are so poor defensively most of the time ?
I’ll tell you in my opinion is that we are caught in between identities all the time with him and our make up of our roster
Either get players who are of that mind set or let the players play to their strengths ..
I’m probably the minority , but I really truly think we can win in this day and age and the way hockey is without its obstruction with a high flying approach , I really do , it’s never been done since the oilers , I mean the way we are made up with the talent we have let’s try that approach ..
Can you imagine those Oiler teams now without the thuggery and obstruction and ability to stand in front of the net without being killed there ?
Wow it would be outrageous ..
We could be a similar team if you think about it other than no Gretz ..

 

[Gary Nylund]

How has Babcock done a poor job of getting the best out of our players the past 10 months?

Let's start with something easier:

How many games have we played in the last 10 months? You earlier said 15 games, would you care to try again?

If we can't find common ground on a simple thing like that, then further discussion is pointless.

 

[MyBudJT]

Let's start with something easier:

How many games have we played in the last 10 months? You earlier said 15 games, would you care to try again?

If we can't find common ground on a simple thing like that, then further discussion is pointless.

Lets start with you answering my question... If there is no merit on looking at the past 10 months, then why does it matter how many games we played?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Lets start with you answering my question... If there is no merit on looking at the past 10 months, then why does it matter how many games we played?

LMAO, who said there's no merit in looking at the past 10 months?

One last time:

How many games have we played in the last 10 months? You earlier said 15 games, would you care to try again?

If you are unable or unwilling to answer this one simple question, don't bother replying. Thanks in advance.

 

[MyBudJT]

LMAO, who said there's no merit in looking at the past 10 months?

One last time:

How many games have we played in the last 10 months? You earlier said 15 games, would you care to try again?

If you are unable or unwilling to answer this one simple question, don't bother replying. Thanks in advance.

Again, why are you looking at 10 months? Why not a full season? What happened 10 months ago that wants you to look at that criteria?

If you can give a valid answer to my question (which I asked first), then I'll gladly answer yours.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Again, why are you looking at 10 months? Why not a full season? What happened 10 months ago that wants you to look at that criteria?

If you can give a valid answer to my question (which I asked first), then I'll gladly answer yours.

I know you are but what am I lol
Gentlemen , Gentlemen can’t we all just get along

 

[Gary Nylund]

Again, why are you looking at 10 months? Why not a full season? What happened 10 months ago that wants you to look at that criteria?

If you can give a valid answer to my question (which I asked first), then I'll gladly answer yours.

You're question makes no sense because you're assuming that looking at 10 months has no merit. I don't agree with your assumption so I can't possibly answer.

I won't ask again.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Those were the best of times and the worst of times ...
I’ve said this before
I couldn’t stand Ballard and the damage he inflicted on this great franchise and legacy of a team laid down by Mr . Conn Smythe .
Thankfully we are finally out from under that crap .
Bag over the head of Neilson desire
Firing him then hiring him
Keon mistreatment
Trading Macdonald
Sittler treatment
Brewer
Re hiring of Imlach
Hiring of ridiculous managers and coaches
Cheapness
Circus **** show all the time

On and on and on

other than a few laughable times with him it was a disaster

You mentioned trading Macdonald and the treatment of Sittler, I would add the trading of Sittler as well.

One of my favourite stories was when Ballard once again fired the coach, he was asked what qualities he was looking for in his new coach. His answer - I want someone who will work for 50K a year. Enter John Brophy.

I’m probably the minority , but I really truly think we can win in this day and age and the way hockey is without its obstruction with a high flying approach , I really do , it’s never been done since the oilers , I mean the way we are made up with the talent we have let’s try that approach ..

I also think it can be done. Perhaps most importantly though, since we have a team that is built exactly that way, it would be incredibly stupid not to try (which is exactly what's happening under Babcock).

 

[MyBudJT]

You're question makes no sense because you're assuming that looking at 10 months has no merit. I don't agree with your assumption so I can't possibly answer.

I won't ask again.

I'm not assuming 10 months has no merit... that is why I am asking you why you're selecting that sample.

 

[ToMaLe]

Amazing that Muzzin's hits totals have dived off a cliff since joining the leafs, could it be age? yeah he is 30 now. But the year he was traded here he was on an 82 game pace to have 182 hits the 30 games with the leafs? a pace of 114. It would seem that a gameplan with the leafs must involve being told less hitting, that is 68 hits less over a season on pace for 114. If he played 82 with the leafs last year and had 114 hits and this year keeps up his 120 pace they are easily his lowest hit total seasons in the NHL over a full season, 162 was his lowest in LA!.

Before anyone decides that is on Dubas, dont be silly there is zero chance Dubas a GM could tell a player what they can and cant do on the ice. Babcock's gameplan involves stick checking its got to be as simple as that. So all this "softest team ever" threads must take that into account no?

Unless as i said earlier Muzzin just hit a wall and now cant hit anymore, that is of course possible if a little unlikely due to half season at LA and TO being so different last season.

Same as Matt Martin, led the league in hits, what does Babcock do? Bench him for 18 games so they have to trade him since he is wasting cap room not playing. Funny that he is having a good year with the Islanders, as are their team. Yet our stacked team is playing like crap. Christ I wish we had Trotz coaching this team instead of this clown.

 

[Walshy7]

Thats an interesting stat, but there is no way on earth Babcock doesnt want guys hitting, that is the exact opposite of what he expects out of players. He loves the Hyman's etc and always preaches playing heavy, so I can't see this being the case. Maybe Dubas gives guys the stink eye if they are being too physical, that seems more plausible.

that must be one putrid smelling stink eye, for muzzin to completely change the way he plays basically.

Babcock preaches alot of things that he doesnt actually put in to practice. i cant find the direct quote but he said early on "if you are playing well you will play more" (something to that effect)that is 100% false he continually doesnt play the player that is playing well more mins unless its a grinder type guy. Matthews and Marner (and even nylander occasionally) have had games where they were lights out and their mins did not go up at all.

 

[thewave]

Same as Matt Martin, led the league in hits, what does Babcock do? Bench him for 18 games so they have to trade him since he is wasting cap room not playing. Funny that he is having a good year with the Islanders, as are their team. Yet our stacked team is playing like crap. Christ I wish we had Trotz coaching this team instead of this clown.

Its not just Babcock. Dubas made the team softer. Burke and Wilson not on the same page. Randy and Nonis were not. The problem goes all the way back to JFJ and Maurice even. Larry T. Meddles I this team and they have so many consultants and this and that, stupid bloated organization. Hockey teams need a damn smart GM that is a dictator and a damn smart coach that is on the same page. Dubas and Babcock are not on the same page, that I know. Then you have a layer cakr of voices, recipe for bankruptcy and they would be anywhere else but Toronto.

 

[Teeder Keon]

You mentioned trading Macdonald and the treatment of Sittler, I would add the trading of Sittler as well.

One of my favourite stories was when Ballard once again fired the coach, he was asked what qualities he was looking for in his new coach. His answer - I want someone who will work for 50K a year. Enter John Brophy.



I also think it can be done. Perhaps most importantly though, since we have a team that is built exactly that way, it would be incredibly stupid not to try (which is exactly what's happening under Babcock).

Could not agree more about our approach
Also yes indeed I meant trading of Sittler as well and so much more , we don’t have enough pages on this post lol
Also I liked Broph , but he was one crazy son of a bitch wow , remember when he cut his head, pretty badly and came back with blood all dripping down his white mane crazy crazy shit and all these yes men surrounding Ballard
McNamara and on and on

my favourite funny situation with Ballard was ...
Remembering that the Leafs were the last team to have names on the back of their jerseys , the reason was that Ballard thought they could sell more programs if they didn’t???
So he was instructed by the League to do so , he refused and got a 10,000$ fine
So then he put tiny letters for names on the back , so he got fined again and instructed to put regulation size letters
So he then had white letters on white jerseys and blue letters on blue jerseys , then got fined again and then he finally caved in
Lololol
Too funny
Also when he brought a live tiger into Center Ice at the gardens when he owned the Ti-Cats lol and wore a jacket that was half leafs blue and white and half Ti-Cats so he could piss off the Argo fans at the game
Only Ballard
But man was it embarrassing and I hated losing all the time with the circus going on constantly

 

[Faltorvo]

Anderson has truly been a rock wall for us since he’s been here .. no doubt about it ...
If he continues to be what he has been , he will go down as the 3rd best after Broda and Bower
I know I know some of you will point out some of his playoff bad goals and games
But I can’t imagine us the way we play defensively in front of him how we would be now , whew
He has hidden a lot of stains that we have produced ...
On a side note lol
For such a structured defensive minded coach , why is it that we are so poor defensively most of the time ?
I’ll tell you in my opinion is that we are caught in between identities all the time with him and our make up of our roster
Either get players who are of that mind set or let the players play to their strengths ..
I’m probably the minority , but I really truly think we can win in this day and age and the way hockey is without its obstruction with a high flying approach , I really do , it’s never been done since the oilers , I mean the way we are made up with the talent we have let’s try that approach ..
Can you imagine those Oiler teams now without the thuggery and obstruction and ability to stand in front of the net without being killed there ?
Wow it would be outrageous ..
We could be a similar team if you think about it other than no Gretz ..

you ridiculously over value the skill on this roster , to the point where it is pathetic.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Lets start with you answering my question... If there is no merit on looking at the past 10 months, then why does it matter how many games we played?

I'm not assuming 10 months has no merit... that is why I am asking you why you're selecting that sample.

You earlier said something about reading comprehension ...

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

How long has he been in the league, and he is still trying to figure out how to play and win? Well I guess since he is the only coach that has been in the league the last 7 years that has not won a single playoff round, I can see why. How long do we have to wait until he figures it out, another 7 years? More ? Christ this clown needs to go, and sooner the better.

Is that really true, and does it matter?

4 of those seasons were with the Leafs, and the first 3 were kinda expected. Last year was a big miss.

When I first read it I thought you meant that NONE of the other 30 coaches had not got out of the 1st round, but now I think you mean only coaches who have been there for 7 years. It was Dallas Eakins that immediately made me think it was wrong.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Could not agree more about our approach
Also yes indeed I meant trading of Sittler as well and so much more , we don’t have enough pages on this post lol
Also I liked Broph , but he was one crazy son of a ***** wow , remember when he cut his heD pretty badly and came back with blood all dripping down his white mane crazy crazy **** and all this yes men surrounding Ballard
McNamara and in and on

So true. If we mentioned everything "worth" mentioning we'd probably be at it for weeks.

my favourite funny situation with Ballard was ...
Remembering that the Leafs were the last team to have names on the back of their jerseys , the reason was that Ballard thought they could sell more programs if they didn’t???
So he was instructed by the League to do so , he refused and got a 10,000$ fine
So then he put tiny letters for names on the back , so he got fined again and instructed to put regulation size letters
So he then had white letters on white jerseys and blue letters on blue jerseys , then got fined again and then he finally caved in
Lololol
Too funny

Agreed. I'm guessing that was before I was old enough to understand as I probably would have remembered that one. Just incredible stuff!

Also when he brought a live tiger into Center Ice at the gardens when he owned the Ti-Cats lol and wore a jacket that was half leafs blue and white and half Ti-Cats so he could piss off the Argo fans at the game
Only Ballard
But man was it embarrassing and I hated losing all the time with the circus going on constantly

Oh boy, was it ever. It was so bad, people who didn't live through it couldn't possibly understand just how bad it was.

 

[MyBudJT]

You earlier said something about reading comprehension ...

Yes, reading comprehension is important.

I wasn't stating 10 months has no merit. I was asking you to tell me why we're looking at the last 10 months... rationale being: IF there is no merit on looking at the past 10 months, then it does NOT matter how many games we played in that span.

I never said there is no merit. I said if there is no good answer, then there is no point in my finding out how many games they've played in the last 10 months...

 

[Gary Nylund]

Yes, reading comprehension is important.

I wasn't stating 10 months has no merit. I was asking you to tell me why we're looking at the last 10 months... rationale being: IF there is no merit on looking at the past 10 months, then it does NOT matter how many games we played in that span.

I never said there is no merit. I said if there is no good answer, then there is no point in my finding out how many games they've played in the last 10 months...

But there is merit in looking at the last 10 months, which is why your question has no merit.

If you don't understand that your question was making an assumption, then you really do need to work on your reading comprehension (which of course has been demonstrated in other ways as well - hint - it has to do with the question you refuse to answer).

I think we're done here, have a nice day.

 

[MyBudJT]

But there is merit in looking at the last 10 months, which is why your question has no merit.

If you don't understand that your question was making an assumption, then you really do need to work on your reading comprehension (which of course has been demonstrated in other ways as well - hint - it has to do with the question you refuse to answer).

I think we're done here, have a nice day.

My question is:

Why are YOU looking at a 10 month sample size?

There are two outcomes. Either you have a valid answer or you do not. I am making no assumptions. Its clear what you're doing by deflecting and choosing not to answer a simple question.

 

[GoonieFace]

Take it outside Gary and BudJT

 

[GoonieFace]

Whenever I see the thread title. I think it says Babcock needs to go #2. In that case, I suggest a combination of prunes and oatmeal