So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[Dreakmur]

This board truly makes a guy nuts.

Since when in the **** is it not part of the coach's job description to maximize effort from his players? You can't be serious.

Since when? Depends on the maturity level of each player, but usually around age 11/12. That’s usually when they start to figure out what “working hard” means.

Especially in the NHL, all these guys should know the drill. It’s up to the player to give his best effort.

If Auston Matthews isn’t working hard, how can you blame anyone other than Auston Matthews? He doesn’t like the coach? Cool excuse, but the player still made his own decision to not work. I guess that’s the only reason to work hard.... who cares about your team or your pride or the fans or friends and family... they can all suck it because the coach is a jerk. That will show him!

 

[JT AM da real deal]

I really don't get it. All this to defend this dinosaur and his defense-first grinder system from last decade that he ruthlessly tries to impose on this team.

This is the major misconception here. His defense actually sucks. He only won with Lidstrom bailing out his crappy system out time and time again playing 30+ minutes a night in playoffs. Any coach can win when you have a guy on back end who is big strong tough skates like the wind and has amazing hands and vision and can go get the puck when team is in trouble and take it out of his end at WILL. It is why Bruins won with Orr and Islanders won with Potvin.

 

[GoonieFace]

Since when? Depends on the maturity level of each player, but usually around age 11/12. That’s usually when they start to figure out what “working hard” means.

Especially in the NHL, all these guys should know the drill. It’s up to the player to give his best effort.

If Auston Matthews isn’t working hard, how can you blame anyone other than Auston Matthews? He doesn’t like the coach? Cool excuse, but the player still made his own decision to not work. I guess that’s the only reason to work hard.... who cares about your team or your pride or the fans or friends and family... they can all suck it because the coach is a jerk. That will show him!

I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to understand. You play for your teammates, who cares if you think the coach is mean. Lame excuses.

 

[Stephen]

Last night is what I would characterize as a classic Babcock win. Ugly, low scoring and hang in for the opportunity and seize the two points. In the long run I think you need more of these kind of nights than a 7-6 barn burner in order to finish high in the standings and have juice left over to go deep in the playoffs. It’s not stylistically compatible a la Colorado but this style of play has to be part of their repertoire under any coach.

 

[biotk]

In 2017 Cassidy takes over for Julien and the struggling Bruins (on pace for an 86 point season 55 games in and after a couple underachieving seasons in the 90 point range) immediately take off and have played at a 111 point pace over the 206 games under Cassidy. Apparently sometimes a coaching change can make a difference with a stagnant, underperforming team. Boston is the best team in the NHL right now. Julien is a good coach - but he was the wrong coach for the Bruins.

The Islanders are the second best team in the NHL right now. Trotz took over 96 games ago and took a team from 80 points the season before to a team that has been playing at a 107 point pace over their 96 games under Trotz. Wonder if changing the coach had anything to do with that?

The Blues are currently the fourth best team in the NHL. Berube took over a team that was off to an awful start (on pace for 73 points) and over the rest of the regular season and the start of this one has set the team on a 109 point pace (over 79 games) and they performed pretty strong in the playoffs too.

Edmonton is 6th in the NHL right now, on a 113 point pace, after two seasons near the basement. Wonder if they have a new coach?

The Sabres are 7th in the NHL right now, on a 109 point pace after being near the basement for a very long time. Coaching change?

 

[biotk]

But I am glad the Leafs managed to tighten up defensively and squeak out a win against the worst defensive team in the league last night. Beautiful as they say.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

Last night is what I would characterize as a classic Babcock win. Ugly, low scoring and hang in for the opportunity and seize the two points. In the long run I think you need more of these kind of nights than a 7-6 barn burner in order to finish high in the standings and have juice left over to go deep in the playoffs. It’s not stylistically compatible a la Colorado but this style of play has to be part of their repertoire under any coach.

Babs was so happy in his presser last night. He looks like he loves that kinda hockey. Personally I don't care I just want the win. But you have to admit it kinda sucks to watch.

 

[HolyCrap]

I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to understand. You play for your teammates, who cares if you think the coach is mean. Lame excuses.

You just don’t understand. Nobody is talking about playing for team mates. We’re talking about systems, player usage, getting players to buy into said systems etc. A lot of the issues rides on the coach and is the easiest to change. If it doesn’t work then its on management and player personnel which is a failed rebuild.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I’m watching Barrie, a player that was once one of the most dynamic defensemen in the NHL, who now just looks flat out bad and seems to be getting worse.

I mean, he’s never been great defensively and that was expected, but he seems to have regressed in every area under Babcock.

I honestly don’t think our defense is bad individually, but there’s clearly a problem with the system or coaching that is inhibiting this group from being successful.

I started really paying attention to something last night. I was looking for how often 2 of our guys were going after 1 opposing team member with the puck. I lost count by the 3rd period. How complicated or stupid must our players be that they cannot even sort out how to cover?
I was watching for LA to do the same and never saw it. So this has to be a system thing that causes our players to run around like morons. It has to be...or are we trading for really dumb people every single time we make a trade?

If 2 guys are going after 1 player...can't they communicate to one another and say "I got him"...so if our "system" is so daffy that this happens with extreme regularity...I blame the coach and his pressure system. He doesn't like body checks because of reasons...but he doesn't mind a 2vs1 chase down of the puck carrier because of a complicated system...

 

[Stephen]

Babs was so happy in his presser last night. He looks like he loves that kinda hockey. Personally I don't care I just want the win. But you have to admit it kinda sucks to watch.

The way the Leafs had been playing and blowing leads I personally wanted to watch a few more of those quiet routine wins. Once their 200 foot game and effort level has been stabilized, then I want to see the high octane offense back into the mix.

 

[biotk]

If you want in the win in the playoffs you have to be great defensively. You can't outscore your opponents. You have to grind it out. If you don't put everyone to sleep, you are not doing it right.

That is why Toronto, who scored 27 goals in their last 10 regular season games last year, did so well in the playoffs, but Boston and St Louis, who scored 43 and 40 goals in their last 10 regular season games last year, respectively, did so poorly in the playoffs.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to understand. You play for your teammates, who cares if you think the coach is mean. Lame excuses.

Oh the other hand, if the coach is such a dick that the game is no longer fun, eventually the life just gets sucked out of the team. Hockey is still a game and it needs to be played with passion and enthusiasm to have success.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

In 2017 Cassidy takes over for Julien and the struggling Bruins (on pace for an 86 point season 55 games in and after a couple underachieving seasons in the 90 point range) immediately take off and have played at a 111 point pace over the 206 games under Cassidy. Apparently sometimes a coaching change can make a difference with a stagnant, underperforming team. Boston is the best team in the NHL right now. Julien is a good coach - but he was the wrong coach for the Bruins.

The Islanders are the second best team in the NHL right now. Trotz took over 96 games ago and took a team from 80 points the season before to a team that has been playing at a 107 point pace over their 96 games under Trotz. Wonder if changing the coach had anything to do with that?

The Blues are currently the fourth best team in the NHL. Berube took over a team that was off to an awful start (on pace for 73 points) and over the rest of the regular season and the start of this one has set the team on a 109 point pace (over 79 games) and they performed pretty strong in the playoffs too.

Edmonton is 6th in the NHL right now, on a 113 point pace, after two seasons near the basement. Wonder if they have a new coach?

The Sabres are 7th in the NHL right now, on a 109 point pace after being near the basement for a very long time. Coaching change?

Very very good post. Well thought out. Hopefully Shanny/Dubie get the message.

 

[Gallagbi]

The way the Leafs had been playing and blowing leads I personally wanted to watch a few more of those quiet routine wins. Once their 200 foot game and effort level has been stabilized, then I want to see the high octane offense back into the mix.

A nice 4-1 win where we coast in to the third up by a few goals would be nice. Feels like everything is a grind right now.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

In 2017 Cassidy takes over for Julien and the struggling Bruins (on pace for an 86 point season 55 games in and after a couple underachieving seasons in the 90 point range) immediately take off and have played at a 111 point pace over the 206 games under Cassidy. Apparently sometimes a coaching change can make a difference with a stagnant, underperforming team. Boston is the best team in the NHL right now. Julien is a good coach - but he was the wrong coach for the Bruins.

The Islanders are the second best team in the NHL right now. Trotz took over 96 games ago and took a team from 80 points the season before to a team that has been playing at a 107 point pace over their 96 games under Trotz. Wonder if changing the coach had anything to do with that?

The Blues are currently the fourth best team in the NHL. Berube took over a team that was off to an awful start (on pace for 73 points) and over the rest of the regular season and the start of this one has set the team on a 109 point pace (over 79 games) and they performed pretty strong in the playoffs too.

Edmonton is 6th in the NHL right now, on a 113 point pace, after two seasons near the basement. Wonder if they have a new coach?

The Sabres are 7th in the NHL right now, on a 109 point pace after being near the basement for a very long time. Coaching change?

I think people can't fathom that Babs might be a good coach...just not for this team the way it's constructed. Both can be true at the same time. For all this talk about his Detroit days I think we need to mention he won 1x..that's it. With all those great players he managed to do it 1x. That should be held against him more than for him IMO.

The style of coaching can be at a conflict for the make up of a team. Julien leaves Boston and suddenly they play way better...coincidence? Babs would be a good coach for a NY Islanders type team...lower skill and high effort...but for us..it's obvious he can't adjust to the team we have. We brought in so many players this year and they play the same way...it's obvious to anyone who wants to open their eyes and see that Babs is not the guy for this team.

 

[Gallagbi]

In 2017 Cassidy takes over for Julien and the struggling Bruins (on pace for an 86 point season 55 games in and after a couple underachieving seasons in the 90 point range) immediately take off and have played at a 111 point pace over the 206 games under Cassidy. Apparently sometimes a coaching change can make a difference with a stagnant, underperforming team. Boston is the best team in the NHL right now. Julien is a good coach - but he was the wrong coach for the Bruins.

The Islanders are the second best team in the NHL right now. Trotz took over 96 games ago and took a team from 80 points the season before to a team that has been playing at a 107 point pace over their 96 games under Trotz. Wonder if changing the coach had anything to do with that?

The Blues are currently the fourth best team in the NHL. Berube took over a team that was off to an awful start (on pace for 73 points) and over the rest of the regular season and the start of this one has set the team on a 109 point pace (over 79 games) and they performed pretty strong in the playoffs too.

Edmonton is 6th in the NHL right now, on a 113 point pace, after two seasons near the basement. Wonder if they have a new coach?

The Sabres are 7th in the NHL right now, on a 109 point pace after being near the basement for a very long time. Coaching change?

Babs and Julien are a very close comparison IMO.

You have a good coach who will get a job elsewhere, could even win, but the team may be tired of the same message and stagnating system

 

[IPS]

Babs was so happy in his presser last night. He looks like he loves that kinda hockey. Personally I don't care I just want the win. But you have to admit it kinda sucks to watch.

If we had some roster that comprised of 4 grinding lines and 6 stay-at-home defensemen with little propensity to move the puck, then it absolutely would not suck.

But we don't, we have quite the opposite. That's why it sucks to watch.

 

[TheBigFour]

babs coaching style is made for veteran low skill blue collar teams, not for a young fast skill team like the leafs are built. Its really disappointing how this team is not creating high end scoring chances. if I'm not mistaken, leafs are bottom ten team in XGF %.
A lot of weak point shots that makes their corsi number look better.

 

[paulhiggins]

Leafs have been crap defensively since Pat Burns left. And crap before he got there.

 

[Teeder Keon]

I think people can't fathom that Babs might be a good coach...just not for this team the way it's constructed. Both can be true at the same time. For all this talk about his Detroit days I think we need to mention he won 1x..that's it. With all those great players he managed to do it 1x. That should be held against him more than for him IMO.

The style of coaching can be at a conflict for the make up of a team. Julien leaves Boston and suddenly they play way better...coincidence? Babs would be a good coach for a NY Islanders type team...lower skill and high effort...but for us..it's obvious he can't adjust to the team we have. We brought in so many players this year and they play the same way...it's obvious to anyone who wants to open their eyes and see that Babs is not the guy for this team.

Perfect points

 

[Jozay]

Last night is what I would characterize as a classic Babcock win. Ugly, low scoring and hang in for the opportunity and seize the two points. In the long run I think you need more of these kind of nights than a 7-6 barn burner in order to finish high in the standings and have juice left over to go deep in the playoffs. It’s not stylistically compatible a la Colorado but this style of play has to be part of their repertoire under any coach.

That type of game is perfectly fine when going up against a good team. But when you're playing the Kings and cant generate much, thats a problem.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Babs and Julien are a very close comparison IMO.

You have a good coach who will get a job elsewhere, could even win, but the team may be tired of the same message and stagnating system

MTLs breakout and puck support is a notch or two above ours.

We struggled VS Sharks on a B2b. They beat the league best Bruins and held a lead all game on a b2b.

Everyone seems to forget with like half the talent as our team, they were 1 point behind our " high octane offense" superstar team for the playoffs.

Thats coaching right there.

 

[Stephen]

That type of game is perfectly fine when going up against a good team. But when you're playing the Kings and cant generate much, thats a problem.

At this point, I’m satisfied every time we give up fewer than 3 goals against. Baby steps.

 

[Stephen]

MTLs breakout and puck support is a notch or two above ours.

We struggled VS Sharks on a B2b. They beat the league best Bruins and held a lead all game on a b2b.

Everyone seems to forget with like half the talent as our team, they were 1 point behind our " high octane offense" superstar team for the playoffs.

Thats coaching right there.

Winning back to backs, holding leads and having efficient transition games are normal routine things in hockey. It’s just the Leafs have been having a hard time.

 

[kk87]

You can be the best parent in the world, but if your kid is a jerk, there is nothing you can do about it.

Are the whiny overpayed brats sick of mean ol' Babcock and his messgae of playing good all around hockey? Probably.

Do the Leafs need a coaching change? Probably

However, if indeed this soft as butter "core" is pulling the chute on purpose, it shows more about their lack of character than it does about Babcocks coaching style.

I am all for a coaching change at this point, because its really the only card they can play. Dubas isn't going to trade away any of his overpayed prized possessions after he got steamrolled in contract negotiations.

This comment's pretty off base in my opinion. If a kid is acting poorly, it's usually more of a statement on the parents than the kid him/herself. Same could be said here.