So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

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To me ,Babcock's post game interview last night says it all ...
Paraphrasing only :
“ it was hard , couldn’t get any shots from the point , or generate any offence ..
To me it was beautiful “
I may have missed something’s , but in general that’s what he said
There in lies the crux of the problem with this team and the disconnect between players and coach for the most part in philosophy and make up of this team .
This team is not built or suited to play that style and he is trying to force it upon this group made up of high octane offensive skating free wheeling players including the defensemen for the most part .
Can you imagine Sather saying those words with his high flying team ?
It’s just not going to work
What a ridiculous statement on his part to make .

Yep his defenders will still hold up some mystical standard of Babcock's vision for the team but that was it, last night, that's what he wants. He wants no event hockey, and we wonder why this team looks catatonic.
 
He wants to instill good 2-way hockey into his players. It might not be pretty but thats how you are successful in the playoffs. Good luck winning anything playing run and gun.
 
This comment's pretty off base in my opinion. If a kid is acting poorly, it's usually more of a statement on the parents than the kid him/herself. Same could be said here.

In some cases yes, but great people have come from terrible parents and vice versa. Ultimately its up to the individual as to what kind of person or in this case player they want to be.
 
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Oh the other hand, if the coach is such a dick that the game is no longer fun, eventually the life just gets sucked out of the team. Hockey is still a game and it needs to be played with passion and enthusiasm to have success.

Everybody talks about pro hockey being a business, and it is.

And that leads to a bit of a deal-with-the-devil for the players. If you want to make $10 million (US) in your early 20s, you may have to step up and be a pro. That might be less "fun" than before, but you can always say no and go to the beer leagues.
 
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Oh the other hand, if the coach is such a dick that the game is no longer fun, eventually the life just gets sucked out of the team. Hockey is still a game and it needs to be played with passion and enthusiasm to have success.

I get your point if he was coaching children, but these are highly paid professional athletes. If you truly want to win, you have to play ugly hockey.
 
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MTLs breakout and puck support is a notch or two above ours.

We struggled VS Sharks on a B2b. They beat the league best Bruins and held a lead all game on a b2b.

Everyone seems to forget with like half the talent as our team, they were 1 point behind our " high octane offense" superstar team for the playoffs.

Thats coaching right there.
I'm speaking less about the overall coach and more the coaching message needing a change
 
He wants to instill good 2-way hockey into his players. It might not be pretty but thats how you are successful in the playoffs. Good luck winning anything playing run and gun.

Sure but another way of looking at it is he wants an elite offensive team with suspect defense to sit on 1 goal leads rather than go for the throat, and I don't need to paint some imaginary picture of how that will look come playoff time because we've seen it.
 
Everybody talks about pro hockey being a business, and it is.

And that leads to a bit of a deal-with-the-devil for the players. If you want to make $10 million (US) in your early 20s, you may have to step up and be a pro. That might be less "fun" than before, but you can always say no and go to the beer leagues.

Once the contract is signed, you don't have to do anything (apparently) except show up for work.

I get your point if he was coaching children, but these are highly paid professional athletes. If you truly want to win, you have to play ugly hockey.

They're pros sure but they're also human beings and it's hard to play ugly, do all the things necessary to win etc. when the game isn't fun to play any more.
 
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I get your point if he was coaching children, but these are highly paid professional athletes. If you truly want to win, you have to play ugly hockey.

There's an appropriate middle ground. You can't win with pure running and gunning, nor can you grit and defend the puck into the other teams net.

Example, when your trailing in a game seven, and you have one of, if not the best goal scorers in the league on your team, you should play him a lot, even if he isn't as "dependable" as a 40 year old Patrick Marleau. You can't "dependable" the puck into the net.
 
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Close wins over bad teams is what Babcock likes to see.

I’m gonna post it after every game this year. This team is going to tread water and miss the playoffs late.

And Babcock still won’t get fired. Dubas is going to let that contract ride.
 
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This team needs a disciplinarian in the worst way. Mike Keenan, Michel Therrien, or even a Patrick Roy.
 
This team needs a disciplinarian in the worst way. Mike Keenan, Michel Therrien, or even a Patrick Roy.
Lolololololololllollllllllololololololllololllllololololololololololololololoolololllolllololllllllol
Maybe even possibly Scotty Bowman or Eddie Shore or Conn Smythe or Hap Day or Vince Lombardi lolololololololllolllolololll
Omg god lolololololol
 
This team needs a disciplinarian in the worst way. Mike Keenan, Michel Therrien, or even a Patrick Roy.

The team is coached by Babcock, that's what a disciplinarian coach looks like in the modern game, this isn't the 90's

Also Roy quit on the Avs and Therrien hasn't won anything with some bloody good teams

Just a terrible terrible take
 
He wants to instill good 2-way hockey into his players. It might not be pretty but thats how you are successful in the playoffs. Good luck winning anything playing run and gun.

if the bolded were in anyway true nylander would not have been swapped out for Shore when we are up 3-1, when will nylander learn to close out games if he never closes out games. up 1 goal? sure sit him but while we had a buffer that is time to start "instilling" into nylander playing at the end of games
 
if the bolded were in anyway true nylander would not have been swapped out for Shore when we are up 3-1, when will nylander learn to close out games if he never closes out games. up 1 goal? sure sit him but while we had a buffer that is time to start "instilling" into nylander playing at the end of games
I liked how babcock performed and did last night. He also started the second period 4 on 4 game with kerfoot and nyllu. Not with matthews. That was a message sent by babs. It worked out as a lighting later on as matthews stepped up in a couple of shifts. Its not bout babcock in my opinion, Dubas has to give better board on this chess thang. A new soulja with that thug blood. That makes everybody going, and combines the crowd into this dirt too. Its all bout the experience as a whole. We are all in this together. Dubas has to give that one soulja under God for us or. We will lose in the playoffs.
 
If Babcock's plan to limit Matthews' ice time was to improve his defensive play, it certainly didn't work. He has gotten worse and worse defensively. He did the same thing to Rielly in his 1st season, and we know the disaster he is defensively today.
Funny Keefe did the same thing to Lilly and Dermott, and both have become solid defensive players under him. Lilly took unexpected quick and huge strides in that area. Babcock just might not know how to teach defense.

I'm all for Boudreau or Keefe. Boudreau because he gets the best out of his team. The only thing that gives me hesitance is his playoff record, but it's not like Babcock's is any better.

Keefe is familar with some of these players, and he has the qualities that Babcock lacks.

Also lol at Babcock replacing Nylander with Shore on the last shift of the game. Give me a break.
Fantastic post
So the methodology clearly didn't work and instead of modifying his approach with the young players you just decide to keep forcing it on them.

I'm stuck wondering just how much better Keefe would be which of these youngsters
 
I liked how babcock performed and did last night. He also started the second period 4 on 4 game with kerfoot and nyllu. Not with matthews. That was a message sent by babs. It worked out as a lighting later on as matthews stepped up in a couple of shifts. Its not bout babcock in my opinion, Dubas has to give better board on this chess thang. A new soulja with that thug blood. That makes everybody going, and combines the crowd into this dirt too. Its all bout the experience as a whole. We are all in this together. Dubas has to give that one soulja under God for us or. We will lose in the playoffs.

where is my coachcorner to english dictionary when i need it.
 
Fantastic post
So the methodology clearly didn't work and instead of modifying his approach with the young players you just decide to keep forcing it on them.

I'm stuck wondering just how much better Keefe would be which of these youngsters

Well for one Keefe has taken a freshly drafted D and turned him into an NHLer more than 0 times, so he's already leading Babcock on that front.
 
There's an appropriate middle ground. You can't win with pure running and gunning, nor can you grit and defend the puck into the other teams net.

Example, when your trailing in a game seven, and you have one of, if not the best goal scorers in the league on your team, you should play him a lot, even if he isn't as "dependable" as a 40 year old Patrick Marleau. You can't "dependable" the puck into the net.

For such a talented and offensively gifted team...we don't really score all that much. For a team full of puck moving defensemen and a skilled 3rd and 4th line...we don't score as much as you would hope.

I was on the "Don't sign Muzzin when he is a UFA" train until I saw how important he is. He is literally the ONLY D-man that can actually play defense. All these midget puck movers that Dubas has drafted won't be able to get out of their own zone if they never stop the cycle. You need to pair up the puck movers with a shutdown guy...I don't care if he gets 5pts a year...I just want him to be able to play defense and be able to make a simple pass...thats it...let Reilly get all the points he wants...but get a guy who can cover for his very serious lack of awareness on defense. Watching him play in his own zone is almost comical at times...maybe it's Babs and his stupid system....I don't know..but watch next time when he is at OUR blueline chasing some guy with the puck...our blue line...my God..
 
There's so much, "Why does Babcock play an old guy like Marleau?", "Why doesn't Babcock play and old guy like Spezza?" that fan nit-picking to me becomes eye-rolling.
In most cases, there was plenty of time for all players to make a positive impact to the game that overall the players themselves are to ultimately blame for any loss.

To me, Babcock's job is going to be to push players no matter how good they are to get better. And frankly, Marner, Matthews, Nylander, etc... all have short-comings
and might not like it. That being said, has he 'lost' the room? Don't care whether some 7th defenseman who's lucky he wasn't in the AHL doesn't like him. Don't care
if the players don't like being forced into playing a way that is uncomfortable for them. I'm glad he sends messages to players who completely disregard their defensive
assignments. Many players have spent their entire careers fighting against others that were equal or better they they were. Babcock has a whole lot of young players that
never had that opportunity until they've reached the NHL. Someone like Matthews going against David Pastrnak or Connor McDavid is a lot different Lino Martschini
or Jarkko Immonen. Do you give more ice-time for Matthews when he might not be able to win 5 vs 5? 5-on-5 in the playoffs, Matthews was on the ice for 4 goals for,
7 against. Marner? 4 goals for, 9 goals against. Marleau, much more experienced playing against better opponents knew more was less, only was on for 3 goals for, but only 2 against.

Babcock has a lot of young 'superstar' players that are not, simply put, experienced on being defensive players. I think he's done very well in bringing along these
young players to become better players. The Leafs end should wind up being like a minefield that leaves you no where to turn. It works together as a unit but they're
constantly leaving open trails to cross.
 
For such a talented and offensively gifted team...we don't really score all that much. For a team full of puck moving defensemen and a skilled 3rd and 4th line...we don't score as much as you would hope.

I was on the "Don't sign Muzzin when he is a UFA" train until I saw how important he is. He is literally the ONLY D-man that can actually play defense. All these midget puck movers that Dubas has drafted won't be able to get out of their own zone if they never stop the cycle. You need to pair up the puck movers with a shutdown guy...I don't care if he gets 5pts a year...I just want him to be able to play defense and be able to make a simple pass...thats it...let Reilly get all the points he wants...but get a guy who can cover for his very serious lack of awareness on defense. Watching him play in his own zone is almost comical at times...maybe it's Babs and his stupid system....I don't know..but watch next time when he is at OUR blueline chasing some guy with the puck...our blue line...my God..

"we really don't score all that much"?

Ever consider knowing the facts before giving the opinion you want to have?

The Leafs are 3rd in the league in goals for. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.
 
"we really don't score all that much"?

Ever consider knowing the facts before giving the opinion you want to have?

The Leafs are 3rd in the league in goals for. But hey, everyone is entitled to their opinion.

What I meant by that was in relation to all of our talent. We should be scoring a lot more...do you not agree?
 
For the people defending Babcock, why is it important that he stays? Which part of his in-game strategy or player development do you think would be hard to replace? Is he doing anything that helps us win that other coaches don't do?

Usually when you have a favorite grinder to defend, you can at least point to them playing defense or opening up space for our other players.

What are Babcock's positive attributes that are causing you to go to bat for him so hard? Is it just that he isn't Dubas? Or that he talks like an old-school hockey coach (even though he's the softest coach in the NHL for over a decade).

I don't want to hear excuses about not having the right lineup or the players not buying in. I want to hear what Babcock does well, because it sure hasn't won him anything recently.
 
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