So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[Legendary]

The opposite might be true and that its possible the MLSE BOD has Babcock's back.

Keep in mind Babcock salary is guaranteed and also paid by ownership not management of which Dubas resides.

Babcock's contract;

[On May 20, 2015, it was announced that Babcock would become the new head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He reportedly signed an eight-year contract worth $50 million (an average of $6.25 million per season), and will be the highest-paid coach in NHL history].

So that means Babs is only about 1/2 way through his 8 year deal which means ~$25 mil balance remaining.. Which means MLSE would need to be fully onboard financially with handing Babcock a cheque for $25 mil to go away, and then have to overlap paying the next coach likely Sheldon Keefe also. Better be a pretty good case for setting $25 mil on fire to change the current situation.

Babcock is also a proven coach that delivers the team to the playoffs annually with a long record of success, including leading Canada's teams internationally, while Keefe is a young unproven NHL coach with Zero coaching experience at the NHL level.

So how would the Leafs Owners know that move will increase team success or worsen their chances of making the playoffs annually? They better be prepared to answer to their shareholders and investors that this will increase team success and profitability, and not cause missing the playoffs and tossing away playoff revenue and changes at the Cup.

PS. Its easy for fans to say Fire Babacock as its not their money $$, but for MLSE its a business and so this move of a coaching change would carry a very large payout settlement, so it better be made with that in mind.

I actually agree with you but at this point having the team perform so poorly after just signing Nylander, Marner and Matthews to these ridiculous contracts looks even more foolish and is probably leaving a more bitter taste in their mouth than the prospect of paying out Babcock. Something needs to be done and firing the coach is the lesser of two evils.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

Here is my take. Babs doesn't know what he's doing. Dubas doesn't know what he's doing. Shanahan doesn't know what he's doing. How can I come to that conclusion? I always look at the people doing the hiring. So, Rogers, Bell and Larry Tanenbaum did the hiring. I think we can all agree that none of those entities has any f***ing clue about anything. That to me = we are going to continue to suck for a long, long time.

And....

Who did the hiring for the Raptors?

My memory's not that great, but I seem to remember seeing the heads of Bell and Rogers out there with Larry Tanenbaum giving or getting some sort of rings recently....

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

The opposite might be true and that its possible the MLSE BOD has Babcock's back.

Keep in mind Babcock salary is guaranteed and also paid by ownership not management of which Dubas resides.

Babcock's contract;

[On May 20, 2015, it was announced that Babcock would become the new head coach of the Toronto Maple Leafs. He reportedly signed an eight-year contract worth $50 million (an average of $6.25 million per season), and will be the highest-paid coach in NHL history].

So that means Babs is only about 1/2 way through his 8 year deal which means ~$25 mil balance remaining.. Which means MLSE would need to be fully onboard financially with handing Babcock a cheque for $25 mil to go away, and then have to overlap paying the next coach likely Sheldon Keefe also. Better be a pretty good case for setting $25 mil on fire to change the current situation.

Babcock is also a proven coach that delivers the team to the playoffs annually with a long record of success, including leading Canada's teams internationally, while Keefe is a young unproven NHL coach with Zero coaching experience at the NHL level.

So how would the Leafs Owners know that move will increase team success or worsen their chances of making the playoffs annually? They better be prepared to answer to their shareholders and investors that this will increase team success and profitability, and not cause missing the playoffs and tossing away playoff revenue and changes at the Cup.

PS. Its easy for fans to say Fire Babacock as its not their money $$, but for MLSE its a business and so this move of a coaching change would carry a very large payout settlement, so it better be made with that in mind.

Most people are not aware of the offset clause in those contracts to coaches. Basically what it means is this: If he gets removed as coach...he is still employed by the team for the remainder of his deal. If someone wanted to hire the coach...any monies paid to said coach would be deducted from what the leafs owe him. So if he is owed roughly $6m per season and another team wants to hire him for $5M ...we are only paying the difference which would be $1M.

The only times that teams get burned is when the coach is unwanted and sits at home...then you are stuck with the whole bill. I don't think the remaining years or money is a problem for the leafs.

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

Of course, you are correct but I always remember that a broken clock is right twice a day. Also, with all due respect to the Raptors, the Leafs are the big prize for MLSE.

Raps are catching up, but I agree that Leafs are still the big prize for now.

So.... why do you think MLSE is paying less attention to getting the best success out of their big prize?

Most people are not aware of the offset clause in those contracts to coaches. Basically what it means is this: If he gets removed as coach...he is still employed by the team for the remainder of his deal. If someone wanted to hire the coach...any monies paid to said coach would be deducted from what the leafs owe him. So if he is owed roughly $6m per season and another team wants to hire him for $5M ...we are only paying the difference which would be $1M.

The only times that teams get burned is when the coach is unwanted and sits at home...then you are stuck with the whole bill. I don't think the remaining years or money is a problem for the leafs.

So if Babs really sucks and we fire him, what makes you think some other team would want to pick up the bulk of his (huge) contract?

Wouldn't the other GMs will check out this forum before making any offers?

 

[killer1980]

Raps are catching up, but I agree that Leafs are still the big prize for now.

So.... why do you think MLSE is paying less attention to getting the best success out of their big prize?

I think MLSE lucked out with the Raptors. That can happen. Hell, my wife is even right once in a while. But, I still believe that the focus is on winning the 1st Stanley Cup in 52 years. The tide might be changing, thanks in part to Rogers saturating the airwaves with hockey but, I believe, Leafs still rule the roost. Let's see what happens when the Raptors are no longer at the top. Will they still be a top draw? I don't think so.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Raps are catching up, but I agree that Leafs are still the big prize for now.

So.... why do you think MLSE is paying less attention to getting the best success out of their big prize?



So if Babs really sucks and we fire him, what makes you think some other team would want to pick up the bulk of his (huge) contract?

Wouldn't the other GMs will check out this forum before making any offers?

I think some GM will take a flyer on him to potentially save his own job...no worries as far as I am concerned...if Carlyle can get another job within a short period of time...Babs has a much better chance..especially if other people think that Duby is the problem with how the team is paid/constructed.

 

[Bigmarycombo]

While I would like to see a few guys who can actually bang and irritate, I honestly see the future of this league as skilled and fast wins the race. The fact is we are both skilled and fast.

But watching slow starts, getting outskated and outhustled to pucks (2 habs games among them don't get me started there), and not as engaged and hungry, is very frustrating, and that is coaching. With a basic system and work ethic this team should be in the top 5. Yet we never know what we are getting game to game.

Frustrating.

I completely agree that the league is changing but only in the regular season.

The change to all skill will never happen until the league changes the playoff philosophy of the referees which is “Let them play”.

 

[hullsy47]

I actually agree with you but at this point having the team perform so poorly after just signing Nylander, Marner and Matthews to these ridiculous contracts looks even more foolish and is probably leaving a more bitter taste in their mouth than the prospect of paying out Babcock. Something needs to be done and firing the coach is the lesser of two evils.

Barry Trotz islanders 9-3 lol
Leafs lose to phiĺly baber could be gone

 

[Dreakmur]

Barry Trotz islanders 9-3 lol
Leafs lose to phiĺly baber could be gone

Trotz has been the best coach in the NHL for a long time.

 

[Legendary]

Babcock will likely move on to another team that suits his style and take them past the first round. The Leafs then continue to struggle because Mr. Flow chart will mess up the coaching choice (among other things) and continue on with his skilled and soft mantra. We fans will continue to suffer through bad teams for the foreseeable future. Now that I got the next 5-10 years covered I plead to Mr. Tanenbaum, Bell and Rogers. Hire a GM/president who will combine a tough but skilled approach. Hire Gilmour who embodies both as coach. Now that you have a GM and coach on the same page start signing, drafting, and trading for players who FIT this model....Thank you for your time have a great night.

 

[Hustlr]

Apart from the first 6 games of the season, I think Babs has swallowed his pride and made some really good roster choices lately. I’m glad to see Mikheyev get a shot on the PP. I also like his line selections with these short term injuries we have. I’ve also noticed the first PP unit staying longer than 45 seconds.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

Barry Trotz islanders 9-3 lol
Leafs lose to phiĺly baber could be gone

If we lose to Philly and Chicago - We are suddenly a basement team.
We are currently as of todays date, most games played along with only 3 teams, and we are out of a playoff spot. Not even WC. And ranked 18th leaguewide.

Yikes. With the team from cap maxed players too

 

[Polaris1010]

All they do at Maple Leafs Garden, Mr. Ballard fires the coach.

For the last 50 years, they fire the coach.

Sooner or later, Mr. Ballard will figure that is not the right to make.

Never worked in 50 years.

It will not work this time either when Babcock is booted out of town.

Someone else should go, and have his shit eradicated from the game.

Look at what it did to this team.

When Hyman comes back, the team will be better. When Hyman is the savior, there are major problems with the roster, particularly the forwards.

 

[Pookie]

If the problem is softness and desire... if Babcock goes... is there any indication Dubas/Shanahan will then move the roster in the direction it needs to go?

If not.... there’s your solution.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

I actually agree with you but at this point having the team perform so poorly after just signing Nylander, Marner and Matthews to these ridiculous contracts looks even more foolish and is probably leaving a more bitter taste in their mouth than the prospect of paying out Babcock. Something needs to be done and firing the coach is the lesser of two evils.

Having a coach that actually likes Nylander and Matthews can stand to be around would be beneficial as well.

When two of your best players likely can't stand the guy it doesn't help things.

Keefe has coached 11 players on this roster before, so the transition should be pretty easy if we go that route.

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

If the problem is softness and desire... if Babcock goes... is there any indication Dubas/Shanahan will then move the roster in the direction it needs to go?

If not.... there’s your solution.

Keefe has a much more up tempo style of game, one that suits our speed and skill a lot more.

This team isn't soft, they just aren't playing good hockey right now. If you have the puck all the time you don't need to mash guys.

 

[Cappuccino]

If we lose to Philly and Chicago - We are suddenly a basement team.
We are currently as of todays date, most games played along with only 3 teams, and we are out of a playoff spot. Not even WC. And ranked 18th leaguewide.

Yikes. With the team from cap maxed players too

I guess the scary part is, although we have Sandin and Liljegren almost ready, next season our roster is less good than this year.

 

[Pookie]

Keefe has a much more up tempo style of game, one that suits our speed and skill a lot more.

This team isn't soft, they just aren't playing good hockey right now. If you have the puck all the time you don't need to mash guys.

1) in a hockey game you never have the puck all the time. It’s a false idealistic view. Even a dominating 70% time of possession would result in the other team having the puck for almost a full period.

2) with all of the video work and possession geniuses in the background that bring players in based on their direction, you really think a coach can freely dictate a style of play? For example, if he said screw it... run and gun and thats that... there would be no pressure from within the organization?

 

[LeafsOHLRangers98]

1) in a hockey game you never have the puck all the time. It’s a false idealistic view. Even a dominating 70% time of possession would result in the other team having the puck for almost a full period.

2) with all of the video work and possession geniuses in the background that bring players in based on their direction, you really think a coach can freely dictate a style of play? For example, if he said screw it... run and gun and thats that... there would be no pressure from within the organization?

Agree with the first point somewhat but if we have the puck 70% of the time with Matthews/Nylander and Tavares/Marner onnthe ice I would think our chances to win the game would skyrocket no?

For example the Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander had 12 shots the other night and scored two goals. Thats a shooting percentage of just 16% in that game, around Matthews career normal.

If you can get that level of play from your top 2 units on a nightly basis you should be looking at expecting 3-4 goals a game before factoring your depth players. At that point half decent goaltending and defense will win you most games.

On the 2nd point, It's pretty clear to me that Babcock has the authority to override management and other coaching inputs when it comes to the team on the ice. There are many but a couple examples are:

1) McFarland drew up a play with the empty net, then Babcock took the board from him and put out a unit that looked like last years powerplay with Johnsson on the ice over Nylander. That set up looked nothing like what we've seen from him on the PP this year.

2) The bottom of the lineup decisions have been a constant struggle between him and management.

Petan had a 66 CF% in the 4 games he played despite 80% defensive zone starts, and Spezza is at 56 CF% despite 63% defensive zone starts even though he has struggled with the draws so far. In Spezza's case he is a respected veteran and unlike Commodore isn't a jerk, he should be playing. These two should be in over Timashov and Shore or at least rotated in more frequently, and I'm sure the stats guys try to push this stuff but Babcock does what he wants.

 

[Pookie]

Agree with the first point somewhat but if we have the puck 70% of the time with Matthews/Nylander and Tavares/Marner onnthe ice I would think our chances to win the game would skyrocket no?

For example the Johnsson-Matthews-Nylander had 12 shots the other night and scored two goals. Thats a shooting percentage of just 16% in that game, around Matthews career normal.

If you can get that level of play from your top 2 units on a nightly basis you should be looking at expecting 3-4 goals a game before factoring your depth players. At that point half decent goaltending and defense will win you most games.

On the 2nd point, It's pretty clear to me that Babcock has the authority to override management and other coaching inputs when it comes to the team on the ice. There are many but a couple examples are:

1) McFarland drew up a play with the empty net, then Babcock took the board from him and put out a unit that looked like last years powerplay with Johnsson on the ice over Nylander. That set up looked nothing like what we've seen from him on the PP this year.

2) The bottom of the lineup decisions have been a constant struggle between him and management.

Petan had a 66 CF% in the 4 games he played despite 80% defensive zone starts, and Spezza is at 56 CF% despite 63% defensive zone starts even though he has struggled with the draws so far. In Spezza's case he is a respected veteran and unlike Commodore isn't a jerk, he should be playing. These two should be in over Timashov and Shore or at least rotated in more frequently, and I'm sure the stats guys try to push this stuff but Babcock does what he wants.

Thoughtful reply. Thanks.

On possession, my 70-30 mix in and of itself is an extreme.

And hockey isn’t all 5 v 5. If they cram 4 PPs into their 18 mins and execute on all... game over.

The reality is that it is a parity driven league with the cap. It’s idealistic and unrealistic to think that any one team could dominate with that level of puck possession. Our team of 1st round picks through 4th round picks plays against other teams full of 1st round picks through 4th round picks.

Incidentally, league wide more games are won while being outshot.

As for coach.... I just don’t see that level of influence being significant enough to overtake talent and health as key determinants of success.

 

[SprDaVE]

It's pretty obvious to me this is Babcocks do or die season. If they aren't doing much better by the time December rolls around, he's definitely not going to have a Maple Leafs job much longer.

With that said, I do think there's a bit of an unlucky factor here. Both goaltenders have been pretty bad to start the season and special teams have been putrid. Just getting slightly above league average goaltending and the Leafs are probably not where they are.

I'm sure things will get better in November though.

 

[Vaaaaat]

If we lose to Philly and Chicago - We are suddenly a basement team.
We are currently as of todays date, most games played along with only 3 teams, and we are out of a playoff spot. Not even WC. And ranked 18th leaguewide.

Yikes. With the team from cap maxed players too

Of course. That's what happens when you reward soft entitled kids for having done nothing essentially. But hey follow them on social media, I'm sure millenials love them.

 

[ToMaLe]

I guess the scary part is, although we have Sandin and Liljegren almost ready, next season our roster is less good than this year.

That’s why we need to fire Babcock ASAP, it would be a shame to waste this season having this clown behind the bench. Anyone with an ounce of observation skills can see he is the wrong coach for this team.

 

[PlietscherDassel]

Babs needs to stay. I often disagree with his decisions but I hate the lack of effort from the players and i think it would be a terrible long term move to reward them with a coaching change. We can’t have a team culture where each time some of the expensive guys are not in love with coaching decisions they can just quit, stop doing they job and thereby get what they want.

 

[pucksakes666]

I hope Babcock gets fired and the next guy ends up even worse. That's what most likely will happen.