So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[Menzinger]

It is a combination of moves. Losing UFAs for nothing hurt. Most now comes down to being in cap hell and not been able to make moves without some difficulty.

Do you think the roster this season is noticeably weaker than it was a couple seasons ago?

Personally id say the opposite is true

 

[ryno23]

My beef is Babs riddicouls b2b with his goalies. Why play your starter vs a lower level team when you have a divisional opponent next.

Screw the 2 points fresh. Maybe your team plays harder fresh on the 1st night knowing the backup is in, then 2nd night your starter holds you in while you get your legs going or maybe steals a win.

Just doesn't make sense how he does his goalies

 

[Dreakmur]

The coaches he listed are fundamentally adaptive, they are flexible enough to explore what works and build on it.

Neither of the coaches have been coaching in the NHL long enough to even know what they are yet.

Krueger has 60 games coached, and Brind'Amour has 93. They are doing well so far.

Babcock is fundamentally unadaptive, he's never going to try something that's outside of his box of Saskatchewan Science.

He is not particularly adaptive. That's a weakness, but I'm not sure another style would be any better.

 

[ToMaLe]

Here's an idea.

Babcock should tell the players he's willing to take a leave of absence for say 10 games. If the players want him to resign, then, they should win at least 8 of the 10.

I know it'll never happen, but, it would be a cool way to see how badly the players want Babcock gone.

I would love to listen to an Uber ride video with Matthews and a few other young Leafs coming back from a bar talking about Babcock.

 

[The Podium]

I think its inevitable that Dubas will fire Babcock, but that will be more as a self preservation move on his part because of the roster and the cap management issues. IMO

However the short burst of adrenaline any coaching change causes in the players will wear off quickly and roster warts will still show up soon enough.

I think some people will need to see firsthand that rookie coach Sheldon Keefe in action will not have the success on the standings they think it will and that Babcock had in leading the the team to 100 points seasons.

Its easy to blame the coach when the players under perform particularly those with big contracts that its their linemates or icetime that is the problem. Both Matthews and Marner despite their point totals have seen large periods of icetime where they have been very underwhelming and the Leafs very shaky defensively but its really about player effort not bad system nor bad coaching that leads to giveaways or breakaways and losses.

It is a combination of both. The tough love approach eventually wears thin and effort is lost when respect is. Babcock has lost the room, that much is clear. No self-respecting team starts a game as bad as the Leafs do every single time.

The system is also flawed, after 4 years you would think the chip and stretch passes that clearly do not work would be identified by the coach. The PP, with all the talent that we have, would click.

Pay attention to other teams, actually pay attention. We have mobile D like Rielly and Barrie, forwards in Marner, JT, Matthews and Nylander who are all very capable of skating out the puck and just don't. That isnt a player issue, that is a coaching issue. Barrie came into the pre-season looking great when he was skating the puck and came just as advertised, but since he hasnt really been and has looked lost/bad. Those breakout issues keep us in our own zone defending most of the time, ruins endurance and our only opportunity for offence ends up being off the rush with a tired group.

Pay attention to the PP where they're forcing set plays and trying to get it to Matthews which is clearly not working since he is always covered. If you watch Washington, they do not give it to Ovi at all and play 4-on-3 as a player is always on Ovi. Once they set up and Ovi loses his cover, only then they give it to him to get it in the back of the net. With Matthews' being an equal threat, why not take the same approach and see if it works?

Than you have the ice-time distribution and lineup decisions. Why is the Goat on the ice late in the third when we're down a goal? Roll your 3 scoring lines if you are trying to tie the game. Why are we putting out our 4th line after we score only to be immediately scored against? Why is your 2 #1C playing the minutes of an average 2C? These guys are some of the best players in the game capable of playing 20+ mins a night.

 

[ToneDog]

Do you think the roster this season is noticeably weaker than it was a couple seasons ago?

Personally id say the opposite is true

I was on a complete high after seeing them put a scare in the Caps in the playoffs but the team seems to have stagnated since.

I thought the roster looked promising but everything seems to have gone off the rails so far this season. Nylander, Marner and Matthews have not continued to grow as expected. JT started slow and the defence remains a sore spot.

Who's fault ? Fault probably lies with the coach, GM and players.

One difference between this year and the last couple is that it will be difficult to add due being up against the cap.

Dubas is the GM and in charge. If he thinks Babs is the problem then he needs to pull the trigger. If not, do something to get the ship righted. I do not like what I am seeing but I am willing to wait until JT, Hyman and Dermott return.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I would love to listen to an Uber ride video with Matthews and a few other young Leafs coming back from a bar talking about Babcock.

Why are people projecting this kind of stuff on Matthews?

 

[Al14]

Why are people projecting this kind of stuff on Matthews?

Yeah, he did keep his boxers up afterall.

 

[NightTrain1]

I didn't see whatever was on CBC regarding the Leafs opinion of Babcock, so I cant comment on how entrenched they really are with keeping him. However, this team was built to win RIGHT NOW, like literally this year.

Whatever happens this year the team next year will look different yet again and revamps on defense will need to be made. So all this time and money and the contracts agreed upon were done with the idea that this team is good enough to win the Cup this season, which is also an idea that I and the majority of others seems to be agreed upon. But it is very clearly not progressing any further under this coach and if it does end up being just the players problem it still wont make a difference so why not make the move now and see what we can do under different leadership.

The worst part of this year so far to me is just how badly we are getting outplayed in all aspects and how nothing looks different even with different players. Hell, even the newer guys that just came in and looked good right off the bat are starting to look like everyone else. That kind of a trend points to the only thing remaining that hasnt been changed yet.

The Leafs are sitting in 12th right now in the league overall and 6th in the East and this is deceiving considering we have played mostly 2 games more, sometimes 3 than everyone else. Nobody is guaranteed to win their games of course, but good lord there are a lot of teams that just need one win to tie or pass us. 9 teams league wide in fact that are within 2 points of us and four of them have 3 games in hand. Once its all even we could and should be sitting 11th in the east and 20th in the league.

With the lineup we have at our disposal that shouldnt even be fathomable.

 

[ToMaLe]

Why are people projecting this kind of stuff on Matthews?

It’s no secret Matthews and Babcock are at odds.

 

[Rare Jewel]

It’s no secret Matthews and Babcock are at odds.

Who told you this?

 

[ToMaLe]

Who told you this?

Bobby Orr for one. But I thought everyone knew this, apparently not.

 

[socko]

It is a combination of moves. Losing UFAs for nothing hurt. Most now comes down to being in cap hell and not been able to make moves without some difficulty.

Bigger than the trades are the overpaying and coddling. He's largely responsible for the entitled attitude of our millenials. His contracts are such a joke that other GMs are now ignoring him. Everyone on here who bashed Edmonton's contracts should seriously think about starting an apology thread.

 

[david999]

Babcock is a horrible tactician. His idea of trying something different is to wear a 3 piece suit. Last night Montreal scores in the first minute of the 3rd period to go ahead 3-2. Babcock’s response is to play his top offensive players ( Matthews, Marner, and Nylander) just over 16 minutes of ice time each for the WHOLE game. This Maple Leaf team is stacked with talent, but is saddled with a coach that won’t or can’t think outside the box. Barrie, a tremendous offensive talent, looks totally lost out there under Babcock’s system, whatever it is. In Colorado he was unbelievable on the power play, here he looks like a shell of himself. Babcock is not the right coach for this team. I could see him in Minnesota, with a much older group full of grinders.

 

[Go4soda]

I would love to listen to an Uber ride video with Matthews and a few other young Leafs coming back from a bar talking about Babcock.

I would pay good money for that clip.

 

[Mess]

It’s almost like we need Babcock out so people can see clearly.

I agree with that.

But I think its also why Dubas is keeping him around as a shield, because without Babs as his scapegoat all the focus will be on him after a coaching change and he knows that cap management and his big contracts and his choice of player personnel and playing style might not be conducive to long-term success.

Right now if that is the root of the problem not coaching its masked, as its still Babs that will be the fall guy first before coaching is ruled out.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The only thing Dubas has done is perhaps built a team that has too much up front talent. Best problem to have
It’s not like he’s signed anchor contracts Marner included

 

[OVO16]

Islanders are about to win their 7th straight game...while playing guys like Matt Martin, Clutterbuck, Komarov and heck even Ross Johnston every night.

And we couldnt even let Martin play a single game against the Bruins 2 seasons ago.

Goes to show thats not about just players. Trotz is just a far better coach than Babcock

 

[ShaneFalco]

The only thing Dubas has done is perhaps built a team that has too much up front talent. Best problem to have
It’s not like he’s signed anchor contracts Marner included

He actually got rid of anchor contracts.

 

[Moonman]

Babcock is a horrible tactician. His idea of trying something different is to wear a 3 piece suit.

so true... so sad... funny thing is a laughed at this despite the fact that it's killing me having this coach.

 

[IPS]

Islanders are about to win their 7th straight game...while playing guys like Matt Martin, Clutterbuck, Komarov and heck even Ross Johnston every night.

And we couldnt even let Martin play a single game against the Bruins 2 seasons ago.

Goes to show thats not about just players. Trotz is just a far better coach than Babcock

Bruins are about to move to 8-1-2 on the season too.

Wow we might be losing to Tampa this time around in the playoffs in the 1st round.!

 

[KuleminFan41]

My beef is Babs riddicouls b2b with his goalies. Why play your starter vs a lower level team when you have a divisional opponent next.

Screw the 2 points fresh. Maybe your team plays harder fresh on the 1st night knowing the backup is in, then 2nd night your starter holds you in while you get your legs going or maybe steals a win.

Just doesn't make sense how he does his goalies

To be fair, San Jose went to the semi finals last season and were in a playoff spot when they faced each other. So in reality, San Jose was the tougher game and if I'm not mistaken, statistically a team going into the second game of a back to back, generally are at a disadvantage

 

[saffronleaf]

As much anger and disappointment as I feel, I would wait for the team to get healthy and see what happens.

If they don't stabilize and start taking real steps towards being contenders, I start to unload Barrie, Muzzin, Ceci and reload on some futures and plan for down the road.

In the offseason I fire Babcock and start exploring trades for Marner. Clean up the cap, change the complexion of the core.

Wow so you want to ride or die with Babcock when it comes to this core instead of letting them get a chance under another coach?

Not feeling that.

Fire Babcock now or as soon as possible.

 

[sparxx87]

Islanders are about to win their 7th straight game...while playing guys like Matt Martin, Clutterbuck, Komarov and heck even Ross Johnston every night.

And we couldnt even let Martin play a single game against the Bruins 2 seasons ago.

Goes to show thats not about just players. Trotz is just a far better coach than Babcock

They compete every night. Every second of every shift is everything they’ve got. I’m sure Babcock is envious.


It’s almost like Lamoriello recognizes that character and work ethic are just as important as speed and puck skills? It’s almost like those different player types at the bottom create a more diverse group that can do more?

Dubas might catch on, eventually.

 

[Trapper]

Hard to say what’s going on but if Shanahan won’t fire Babcock and Babcock won’t adapt and if the players don’t like the coach and Dubas is blocked by Shanahan...

Dint expect anything beyond what we are seeing. Our goals against are up, motivation looks down and point percentages probably have us out of the playoffs right now if everything catches up.