So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[ShaneFalco]

I agree that most fans have no idea what they’re talking about, but that’s not my point. My point is that if people watching for years can see Babcock’s ineffective strategies for what they are, I’m certain the players are aware.

Not only aware but visibly frustrated

 

[DarkKnight]

I think its inevitable that Dubas will fire Babcock, but that will be more as a self preservation move on his part because of the roster and the cap management issues. IMO

However the short burst of adrenaline any coaching change causes in the players will wear off quickly and roster warts will still show up soon enough.

I think some people will need to see firsthand that rookie coach Sheldon Keefe in action will not have the success on the standings they think it will and that Babcock had in leading the the team to 100 points seasons.

Its easy to blame the coach when the players under perform particularly those with big contracts that its their linemates or icetime that is the problem. Both Matthews and Marner despite their point totals have seen large periods of icetime where they have been very underwhelming and the Leafs very shaky defensively but its really about player effort not bad system nor bad coaching that leads to giveaways or breakaways and losses.

It’s almost like we need Babcock out so people can see clearly.

 

[DarkKnight]

Why would you "love" it, that sounds annoying to me.

Ditto to you response.

 

[Joey Hoser]

I think I'm officially in the fire Babcock camp now. He hasn't actually done anything this year that I find all that objectionable, but it's very much the same 'ol Babcock, and I realized I will have no faith in him going into the playoffs.

I'd like to give him another chance, but I just have no confidence at all in doing so.

 

[Dreakmur]

Not only aware but visibly frustrated

I'm sure that's a two-way street. I know I'd get annoyed if my most talented players showed little to no desire to win or get better.

 

[Menzinger]

Dubas was handed a 105 point team, gifted John Tavares and has turned it into a .500 team.

Which of his moves do you think caused this to happen?

 

[Ignatius Reilly]

What a convenient cop out for them. Anyways, remove their little security blanket and become men then.

And while you're at it, how about renegotiating your contracts.? Because when we signed you, you didn't tell us you would just give a half effort if the coach wasn't nice.

Or..... suck it up, play with some heart and to the best of your abilities.

There are few guarantees in life or sports. Winning a Cup is a combination of talent (we've got it) heart (we should have it) and some luck (injuries, other teams getting streaks). It's never guaranteed.

One thing that is guaranteed though, is you will lose your fans if you show up with an IDGAF attitude on a regular basis. Especially after we've been so generous to you.

 

[Dreakmur]

Which of his moves do you think caused this to happen?

The biggest hit was losing McElhinney for nothing. We had one of the best back-ups in the league, and we replaced him with a mixed bag of crap.

We also lost some good hard-working grinders due to poor cap management. Kadri was a huge loss, and Connor Brown would be nice about now. We were already too soft even before we lost these two.

 

[Al14]

Here's an idea.

Babcock should tell the players he's willing to take a leave of absence for say 10 games. If the players want him to resign, then, they should win at least 8 of the 10.

I know it'll never happen, but, it would be a cool way to see how badly the players want Babcock gone.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'm sure that's a two-way street. I know I'd get annoyed if my most talented players showed little to no desire to win or get better.

Oh for sure it's not just on the coach. I do think though, that Babcock has sucked the joy of playing the game away

 

[ToneDog]

Which of his moves do you think caused this to happen?

It is a combination of moves. Losing UFAs for nothing hurt. Most now comes down to being in cap hell and not been able to make moves without some difficulty.

 

[Dreakmur]

Oh for sure it's not just on the coach. I do think though, that Babcock has sucked the joy of playing the game away

Oh, he's definitely a no-fun kind of coach, but should that really be a big issue? If any of these players are playing primarily for fun, I wouldn't want them on my team anyway.

 

[Stephen]

I agree that most fans have no idea what they’re talking about, but that’s not my point. My point is that if people watching for years can see Babcock’s ineffective strategies for what they are, I’m certain the players are aware.

It's such a cop out to blame everything on Babcock's ineffective strategies because so much of the problems we see are simply to do with execution of the players themselves. He has his problems and is set in his ways but the effort level and attention to detail shift to shift is horrible.

They're young players and offensively oriented players and they simply aren't taking care of the basics like taking your man in front of the net, simple puck retrievals, using the body to stop a cycle, being able to retrieve a puck with your back to the play and turning to make a clean pass while taking a hit, or pitching and catching pucks cleanly at the blueline, as in last night on the Barrie blunder.

 

[IPS]

Oh, he's definitely a no-fun kind of coach, but should that really be a big issue? If any of these players are playing primarily for fun, I wouldn't want them on my team anyway.

you'd be shocked at how much changing an environment of seriousness and strictness over to a more fun-loving and laid back environment could change a team's effort level. Matthews and Marner are jokesters at heart too.

 

[MattySnipes]

 

[MattySnipes]

you'd be shocked at how much changing an environment of seriousness and strictness over to a more fun-loving and laid back environment could change a team's effort level. Matthews and Marner are jokesters at heart too.

Look at the Canes last year. Add those cellys after games. They play an entertaining brand of hockey, have a coach they play for. They did great things last year, and only look more dangerous this year. The no-fun, all business mantra left the NHL a while ago.

 

[IPS]

Look at the Canes last year. Add those cellys after games. They play an entertaining brand of hockey, have a coach they play for. They did great things last year, and only look more dangerous this year. The no-fun, all business mantra left the NHL a while ago.

That's exactly what came to mind too.

Check out how the new Sabres head coach is too: TRAIKOS: NHL-best Sabres playing looser under new coach Ralph Krueger

People have to get their heads out of the sand already.

 

[MattySnipes]

That's exactly what came to mind too.

Check out how the new Sabres head coach is too: TRAIKOS: NHL-best Sabres playing looser under new coach Ralph Krueger

People have to get their heads out of the sand already.

Always liked Krueger. The day I found out he was hired by Sabres, I knew Buffalo would turn the corner. No doubt having a Dahlin helps huge, but playing looser as a team goes a long way.

A team playing together, for each other, will always go a long way over a team with 1 or 2 really great individual players. People make coaching in the NHL sound more complicated than it actually is. I can't stand those people, but they are entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

 

[Future]

It's such a cop out to blame everything on Babcock's ineffective strategies because so much of the problems we see are simply to do with execution of the players themselves. He has his problems and is set in his ways but the effort level and attention to detail shift to shift is horrible.

They're young players and offensively oriented players and they simply aren't taking care of the basics like taking your man in front of the net, simple puck retrievals, using the body to stop a cycle, being able to retrieve a puck with your back to the play and turning to make a clean pass while taking a hit, or pitching and catching pucks cleanly at the blueline, as in last night on the Barrie blunder.

Okay, what’s your solution? Trade the whole team away? The roster has changed, the issues remain. Babcock is the only constant.

Those simple mistakes are frustrating and I agree we shouldn’t be making them. If the players are unable to execute what he’s teaching them 4 years into his tenure here, maybe that’s not on the players? Maybe the head coach should make adjustments, adapt, play to our strengths? For example, not play our backup on the second night of a back to back no matter the context.

 

[Stephen]

Okay, what’s your solution? Trade the whole team away? The roster has changed, the issues remain. Babcock is the only constant.

Those simple mistakes are frustrating and I agree we shouldn’t be making them. If the players are unable to execute what he’s teaching them 4 years into his tenure here, maybe that’s not on the players? Maybe the head coach should make adjustments, adapt, play to our strengths? For example, not play our backup on the second night of a back to back no matter the context.

As much anger and disappointment as I feel, I would wait for the team to get healthy and see what happens.

If they don't stabilize and start taking real steps towards being contenders, I start to unload Barrie, Muzzin, Ceci and reload on some futures and plan for down the road.

In the offseason I fire Babcock and start exploring trades for Marner. Clean up the cap, change the complexion of the core.

 

[Dreakmur]

you'd be shocked at how much changing an environment of seriousness and strictness over to a more fun-loving and laid back environment could change a team's effort level.

Any coach that allows his players to float around and not compete without clamping down isn't going to be successful.

Mathews and Marner are jokesters at heart too.

You can be a jokester, but take you job seriously.

 

[IPS]

Always liked Krueger. The day I found out he was hired by Sabres, I knew Buffalo would turn the corner. No doubt having a Dahlin helps huge, but playing looser as a team goes a long way.

A team playing together, for each other, will always go a long way over a team with 1 or 2 really great individual players. People make coaching in the NHL sound more complicated than it actually is. I can't stand those people, but they are entitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it is.

So true. Especially the folks who are adamant that a coach needs vast amounts of experience or some stupid shit.

Good grief, take a freaking look around folks. TONS of teams around the league are shifting over to "inexperienced" coaches and are finding great success with them.

I 100% believe that firing Babcock and removing his toxic environment of strictness and seriousness and going with a coach who takes the opposite approach (much like Carolina or Buffalo) will absolutely reinvigorate this team.

 

[IPS]

Any coach that allows his players to float around and not compete without clamping down isn't going to be successful.



You can be a jokester, but take you job seriously.

You just really don't get it pal. Take some time and read that article I linked about Ralph Krueger. And also take some time to notice how Carolina's entire culture shifted under Brind'Amour. It's not a bad thing to be proven wrong.

 

[Dreakmur]

You just really don't get it pal. Take some time and read that article I linked about Ralph Krueger. And also take some time to notice how Carolina's entire culture shifted under Brind'Amour. It's not a bad thing to be proven wrong.

There is no one correct way to coach. No one coach or one style of coaching is going to work for every team or every player. It's about matching the style to the team.

 

[Martin Skoula]

There is no one correct way to coach. No one coach or one style of coaching is going to work for every team or every player. It's about matching the style to the team.

The coaches he listed are fundamentally adaptive, they are flexible enough to explore what works and build on it. Babcock is fundamentally unadaptive, he's never going to try something that's outside of his box of Saskatchewan Science.