So Babcock needs to go... (Part 2)

[Future]

Whose fault was it last year in period 3 of game 7 running out our 3rd and 4th line time and time again? Not stacking the power play? Running out the second unit first etc?

To build on this, it’s probably disheartening as a player to see your coach stubbornly implement ineffective strategies and stick to them despite there being years of evidence of them not working. Players are smart and know just as much as us fans do what works and what doesn’t. When your boss keeps giving you orders to do the same thing over and over that you know is wrong and ineffective, naturally you start to check out. Doesn’t help that your coach is supposed to be a leader of men but takes no accountability in our failures as a team.

 

[KapG]

Who’s disagreeing with you?

The person I’m quoting seems to keep trying to pin it on Dubas...

 

[egd27]

And what if his "I dont give a ****" attitude is because of the coach?
What if this coach has completely lost the room, and the players are waiting for him to be fired?

Lot of people say this is on the players, not the coach. Well maybe it looks like it's on the players because of the coach.

Because they got tired of this stubborn egoist piece of ****.

Then they actually do lack character as many suspect.

 

[DarkKnight]

People with poor reasoning love to appeal to authority. And since Babcock makes a lot of money that means he shouldn’t be fired. That’s about the depth of their analysis.

I love the arrogant poor reasoning crack, followed by the most asinine rationale imaginable. Lol.

 

[Go4soda]

Pretty much boils down to “Ya I know we have one of the most talented young teams in the NHL, right up there with Colorado and Tampa, but it’s Dubas’ fault we’re not performing up to expectations for a 2nd consecutive year”

Makes zero sense. How long were we treading water with mediocre talent as a fringe playoff team? Now 4 years later we’re in the same position yet we have added two top 10 centres in the league, two top young scoring wingers, plenty of depth at forward, a capable defence, and a number 1 goalie. 3 years ago we didn’t have any of that, Phil Kessel was our best player, yet we’ve basically had no improvement in terms of actual success.

Heading into this year I think many agreed that the team had everything to compete for a cup. Yes we’re dealing with a few injuries but holy crap there is no excuse for looking this bad with all this talent.

This. Any coach would salivate at the chance to work with this roster. These arguments that excuse Babcock are laughable. Yes, the roster needs more balance, and that would make this team a true cup contender. But any decent coaching staff with an ounce of creativity should have this group at 100 pts.

 

[DarkKnight]

The person I’m quoting seems to keep trying to pin it on Dubas...

Well he deserves scrutiny too. We’re stuck with a shit backup because we don’t have two nickels to rub together.

 

[sparxx87]

The person I’m quoting seems to keep trying to pin it on Dubas...

I think there’s plenty of blame to go around. Dubas’ flawed philosophy is a problem but that doesn’t rid the players or coaches of their responsibility.

I don’t think Dubas built a team to win 16 playoff games but there’s a lot of people in the organization not doing their job very well right now. Most wear a jersey on game night.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Picture's worth a thousand words ...

 

[ToneDog]

Well he deserves scrutiny too. We’re stuck with a **** backup because we don’t have two nickels to rub together.

And who is to blame for that ?? At the end of the day, Dubas is in charge. If Babs is the problem, fire him or this year could be a right off. It is their time afterall.

 

[ErnieLeafs]

To build on this, it’s probably disheartening as a player to see your coach stubbornly implement ineffective strategies and stick to them despite there being years of evidence of them not working. Players are smart and know just as much as us fans dowhat works and what doesn’t. When your boss keeps giving you orders to do the same thing over and over that you know is wrong and ineffective, naturally you start to check out. Doesn’t help that your coach is supposed to be a leader of men but takes no accountability in our failures as a team.

Most fans are idiots

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I have to believe that AM has checked out on Babs...I REALLY hope that's the case because if this is AM's effort when his team is down a good player in JT...then we are never winning anything let alone a cup with this core.

I think the reason the "core" has checked out on Babs is because they brought in 2 new assistants...and NOTHING changed except for the stretch pass taken out. Someone pointed out that he rewatched a bunch of Panthers PP's from last season and he didn't see any drop backs let alone double dropbacks. So, how did does this happen? Did the new PP coach who was 2nd in the league last year call up Jim Hiller and ask him for advice?

So if your the core and you see that this crap is happening...you're human and check out on him. They replaced all of these players and 2 new assistants....and it's the same thing over and over. They just stick check the other team...they never hit anyone (I don't count a half assed effort to pretend to hit someone as a real hit) they are stuck in their own end because they can't stop the cycle...because you know..you gotta hit someone to stop a cycle and we are not allowed to.

If someone says it's the players who won't hit and Babs is asking them to...then bench them or sit them for a game or 2. I just think he nerfed Muzzin after 10 games and he values a stick check and winning a board battle without being physical...I don't really know how you can do that...but nonetheless he wants what he wants.

 

[hoglund]

I love the arrogant poor reasoning crack, followed by the most asinine rationale imaginable. Lol.

Why would you "love" it, that sounds annoying to me.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Picture's worth a thousand words ...



View attachment 269639

yep, I don't see how you can look at the roster and say the GM built a bottom 5 team in the East. But even so, Dubas has to make a move quickly before the Leafs give up too many points and fall too far behind

 

[namttebih]

Boudreau gets fired.
We fire Babs.
We hire Boudreau for remainder of the year.
We finish year run and gun.
Keefe next year.

Edit: Let's just propose a coaches trade with MIN. I'm sure that Babs would love to coach that team of gud pros

 

[KobeBean143]

Boudreau gets fired.
We fire Babs.
We hire Boudreau for remainder of the year.
We finish year run and gun.
Keefe next year.

Edit: Let's just propose a coaches trade with MIN. I'm sure that Babs would love to coach that team of gud pros

 

[egd27]

Players are smart and know just as much as us fans do

Not sure if this is an insult to players or to fans.

 

[Stephen]

To build on this, it’s probably disheartening as a player to see your coach stubbornly implement ineffective strategies and stick to them despite there being years of evidence of them not working. Players are smart and know just as much as us fans do what works and what doesn’t. When your boss keeps giving you orders to do the same thing over and over that you know is wrong and ineffective, naturally you start to check out. Doesn’t help that your coach is supposed to be a leader of men but takes no accountability in our failures as a team.

I think the disconnect here is the idea that the players need to be played on their preferred lines, have the PP units stacked, get a couple of more minutes in key situations to really thrive and they are disheartened Babcock won't do any of those things.

Because the reality is many of those things the fans want to see have been tried out and they're no good. Turns out Hyman is an extremely useful digger that two top lines miss right now. Turns out Matthews and Marner are terrible together. Turns out that a stacked PP means there's not enough puck to go around and the spacing is terrible. Turns out hard work and two way play were the answer all along.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I think that Babcock needs to go, but the players have shown very little fight through adversity. This does not look like a team that's going to win 4 rounds in the playoffs, let alone 1.

 

[Gallagbi]

I think that Babcock needs to go, but the players have shown very little fight through adversity. This does not look like a team that's going to win 4 rounds in the playoffs, let alone 1.

This is where I'm landing. Not loving some Babcock decisions, but until this teams stars put in a consistent effort it won't matter who the coach is.

Maybe a coaching change is that wake up, who knows.

 

[Stephen]

This is where I'm landing. Not loving some Babcock decisions, but until this teams stars put in a consistent effort it won't matter who the coach is.

Maybe a coaching change is that wake up, who knows.

They really need to figure out what the culture of the room is in order to determine the next step. If Gud Pro Mike Babcock is at one end of the spectrum and Fun Loving Hometown Kid™ is at the other end, have to figure out which one is closer to the championship blueprint. I have a hard time believing that the next coach is going to have an easy time corralling these $10 million + personalities if they simply ax Babcock.

 

[socko]

The Leafs were lucky enough to win the draft lottery in the year with a franchise player and they're going to piss it all away with Kyle Dubas.

 

[hockeynorth]

change it up

 

[Gallagbi]

They really need to figure out what the culture of the room is in order to determine the next step. If Gud Pro Mike Babcock is at one end of the spectrum and Fun Loving Hometown Kid™ is at the other end, have to figure out which one is closer to the championship blueprint. I have a hard time believing that the next coach is going to have an easy time corralling these $10 million + personalities if they simply ax Babcock.

I'm not too optimistic that any coach will "fix" them, but the team needs to grow. Question is whether they'll ever snap in to the right frame of mind.

 

[Mess]

Babcock is getting close to being fired, no doubt when things go this way, firing the coach is the logical, easiest move. That said, while he’s made many mistakes, this latest heartless phase we’re seeing is solely on these players, the embarrassment is on them. You’re asked to show up 82 nights a year, your PA negotiated you hardly even practice anymore, so the least you can do is answer the bell every night with effort. Some nights you don’t have it, but you’re in the game working. Watching a guy who wanted to be Captain, is paid the cream of the league cash, waltz around with the intensity of a beer league game, that’s on him, coaching is a scapegoat.

We will fire Babcock, everyone will look invigorated, it will be a wake up call, but it won’t excuse this **** show we’ve seen.

I think its inevitable that Dubas will fire Babcock, but that will be more as a self preservation move on his part because of the roster and the cap management issues. IMO

However the short burst of adrenaline any coaching change causes in the players will wear off quickly and roster warts will still show up soon enough.

I think some people will need to see firsthand that rookie coach Sheldon Keefe in action will not have the success on the standings they think it will and that Babcock had in leading the the team to 100 points seasons.

Its easy to blame the coach when the players under perform particularly those with big contracts that its their linemates or icetime that is the problem. Both Matthews and Marner despite their point totals have seen large periods of icetime where they have been very underwhelming and the Leafs very shaky defensively but its really about player effort not bad system nor bad coaching that leads to giveaways or breakaways and losses.

 

[Future]

Not sure if this is an insult to players or to fans.

I agree that most fans have no idea what they’re talking about, but that’s not my point. My point is that if people watching for years can see Babcock’s ineffective strategies for what they are, I’m certain the players are aware.