Confirmed with Link: Slafkovsky, Guhle, Harris and Xhekaj made the team!!

[26Mats]

The Habs 1986 lineup had many rookies, but also some amazing leaders. We have amazing deadwood. But I do agree that there are no universal recipe in regard to rookies and the development strategy should be evaluated and adapted on a individual basis.

View attachment 592428

Man, what happened to Kjell Dahlin???

 

[Habs Halifax]

I would suggest that if these young players can't overcome the struggles that comes with a re-building team then perhaps they aren't the players we want going forward. As one pundit once wisely wrote: You have to learn how to lose before you can learn how to win. As long as these players can compete at the NHL level then they should stay. Competing for an extra 5 or 7 minutes a game against inferior competition in the AHL will not enhance their development. But it has to be a player by player assessment and evaluation. I think some of these young players may surprise.

Our herd of fans are too worried the past = the future. There are many different examples of good and bad development from the Habs and many other teams.

The blanket statement of "send him to the AHL" is flawed but once again, posters will cherry pick past examples with the Habs. People forget Suzuki started in the NHL at age 20 at wing. Same type of thinking today would have said to send him to the AHL to play center so he can "develop properly" as a center.

At the end of the day, good development comes down to the players hockey IQ and their will to put the work in to overcome the obstacles. The team can only do so much. Said this for years now and there is nothing anybody can say to derail it.

In Slaf's case, it's a matter of maturity towards managing less time and space. Less time and space exists in the AHL too! So he can develop in either league but the negative is if we play him 12 min a game or less in the NHL where in the AHL he can get 18-20 range. With this Habs roster, we will be rolling lines and monitoring the youth's opportunity and performance. It really is fluid week/week.

Suzuki developed from Wing to a Center at age 20 in his 1st season playing about 14-15 min a game. Dam... could have played 18-20 mins a game in the AHL as a "center". Would be a better center today eh?

 

[Kennerback]

Man, what happened to Kjell Dahlin???

He was supposed to be nothing special when he came to the Habs. But then he just started piling up the points early in the season and everyone started taking notice. At one point, I believe he was even in the lead for the Calder. Second half of the season he stopped producing.

If he wasn’t putting up points he was very soft and of little use. But that first half of his rookie season he was on an incredible run.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Play the kids if they're in the NHL over scrubs that are clearly worse than them.

Slaf, Guhle and Xhekaj are clearly better than the scrubs they are replacing. Harris, maybe not yet.

Give the kids significant minutes in the minor leagues and AHL if they are not sufficiently developed to make it in the NHL or learn and improve, or have a great deal to learn at a lower level, like all three of the ones who "made it."

Having a lot to learn is not the same thing as having a lot to learn at a lower level.

All rookies have a lot to learn, but none of Slaf, Guhle or Xhekaj have child-like bodies or major deficiencies that prevent them from learning at the NHL level, which is a MUST sooner or later. Might as well be sooner, so there are fewer guys to break in brand new next year and the following year.

He was supposed to be nothing special when he came to the Habs. But then he just started piling up the points early in the season and everyone started taking notice. At one point, I believe he was even in the lead for the Calder. Second half of the season he stopped producing.

If he wasn’t putting up points he was very soft and of little use. But that first half of his rookie season he was on an incredible run.

Scored on a lot of one-timers on the PP from sweet Larry Robinson passes. At age 34, Robinson had 82 points!!

 

[schwang26]

Man, what happened to Kjell Dahlin???

I don't think he could hack the physical aspects of the NHL and went back to Sweden. I do believe he got hurt in his second nhl year.
He and Naslund were amazing together. Hard to believe he didn't win the Calder that year.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Suzuki developed from Wing to a Center at age 20 in his 1st season playing about 14-15 min a game. Dam... could have played 18-20 mins a game in the AHL as a "center". Would be a better center today eh?

Imagine how great Brady Tkachuk would be if he had played 2.5 years in the AHL to reach the age Guhle would be next year!

I don't think he could hack the physical aspects of the NHL and went back to Sweden. I do believe he got hurt in his second nhl year.
He and Naslund were amazing together. Hard to believe he didn't win the Calder that year.

PP specialist who fell off a lot in the second half.

 

[Wats]

Our herd of fans are too worried the past = the future. There are many different examples of good and bad development from the Habs and many other teams.

The blanket statement of "send him to the AHL" is flawed but once again, posters will cherry pick past examples with the Habs. People forget Suzuki started in the NHL at age 20 at wing. Same type of thinking today would have said to send him to the AHL to play center so he can "develop properly" as a center.

At the end of the day, good development comes down to the players hockey IQ and their will to put the work in to overcome the obstacles. The team can only do so much. Said this for years now and there is nothing anybody can say to derail it.

In Slaf's case, it's a matter of maturity towards managing less time and space. Less time and space exists in the AHL too! So he can develop in either league but the negative is if we play him 12 min a game or less in the NHL where in the AHL he can get 18-20 range. With this Habs roster, we will be rolling lines and monitoring the youth's opportunity and performance. It really is fluid week/week.

Suzuki developed from Wing to a Center at age 20 in his 1st season playing about 14-15 min a game. Dam... could have played 18-20 mins a game in the AHL as a "center". Would be a better center today eh?

Do you honestly think Suzuki wouldn't have become the C he is today had he started in the AHL like Gallagher did in his age 20 year? The argument is that there's literally nothing to gain by having them start in NHL on a super terrible team. The logic of they'll figure it out if they are good applies if they are sent to AHL or start in NHL. Nothing to lose. Only difference is that it eliminates the 'being rushed' risk that many refute.

It's funny because when you look back at the Mete/Tinordi/Juulsen/Kotkaniemi/DLR/Poehling/Fleury/etc threads, they all have the same conversations too. They were so good that they had to start in the NHL yet when they failed, nothing could have been done different. At what point can a prospect that looks impressive as a young rookie 18/19/20 year old falling off be the organization's fault for not developing? Why not just try slowly bringing them up like many successful teams have in the past...even past Montreal players.

 

[Goldenhands]

Surprised Barron was cut. Must be quite a blow to him. I thought he had good camp

He had a terrible camp.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Do you honestly think Suzuki wouldn't have become the C he is today had he started in the AHL like Gallagher did in his age 20 year? The argument is that there's literally nothing to gain by having them start in NHL on a super terrible team. The logic of they'll figure it out if they are good applies if they are sent to AHL or start in NHL. Nothing to lose. Only difference is that it eliminates the 'being rushed' risk that many refute.

It's funny because when you look back at the Mete/Tinordi/Juulsen/Kotkaniemi/DLR/Poehling/Fleury/etc threads, they all have the same conversations too. They were so good that they had to start in the NHL yet when they failed, nothing could have been done different. At what point can a prospect that looks impressive as a young rookie 18/19/20 year old falling off be the organization's fault for not developing? Why not just try slowly bringing them up like many successful teams have in the past...even past Montreal players.

Suzuki learned faster playing against NHLers than he would have against Laurent Dauphin and Nate Schnarr.

Mete and Fleury were mid-round picks. Mete had no business trying to crack an NHL lineup at 19 at 5'8" and with no shot.

Tinordi had no skill. Juulsen stayed in the WHL, then did AHL and still busted. Not fast enough for the NHL.

DeLaRose lacked offensive skill, and should have been groomed as a Benoit Brunet type.

KK should have been a mid-first round pick at best. Offensive skill is second-tier.

Poehling played more AHL games than NHL games prior to his 23rd birthday. He just is not that good offensively. Maybe he would have done better with the current development group and lower pressure in Montreal, but we will never know.

 

[japhi]

I'd like to understand how folks quantify that a player failed because they were rushed. I see people talking about Galch being rushed - yet he had a great start to his career, played sheltered minutes with our best players, scored 30 as a Hab. Got injured, had some time in the NHL player program and fell off a cliff. I get that he played some time as a 4th line C but the injury and personal issues are clearly bigger deals then having to play NHL 4th line. If he had started in the AHL or NHL, his skating was always going to hold him back.

How do you prove that KK would have been better of in the AHL or Europe? His biggest issue is skating, why would time in the AHL vs NHL improve on how he skates? Isn't it likely that he just has a tool kit that is missing some tools? And who is responsible for him coming to camp 3 years in a row - likely including this one -with the same sub par ability to skate. Skating is a skill you improve on in the off season, that's on him.

Bottom line "rushed" seems to be used for any prospect that a fan likes that doesn't turn out. Yet many don't turn out - I could list hundreds of players drafted high that were brought along slow and suck. Were these players dev curve hampered by delayed time in the NHL? Because if rushed is a thing, delayed surely has to be as well. Best to focus on what exactly the player needs to work on and where it would best to work on it. For most players that can take an NHL shift and not look out of place, that league is the NHL.

 

[schwang26]

He had a terrible camp.

He did. He bobbled the puck a lot! I expected better given his nhl experience.

 

[dasahgah]

Huge blow to Barron considering Xhekaj is undrafted and was a no-brainer to make the team

 

[dinodebino]

Funnily enough, Mesar was the best one in camp.

But is not doing great at the Rocket camp, according to Leroux.

 

[Goldenhands]

One thing with Barron, he will need to develop his upper body and get stronger, he lost most of his 50/50 puck battles. Kid got injury though and probably couldnt train much that offseason.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Is it me or is barron still a baby tho. I dont see the rush, Next years camp is the real deal for him

 

[dinodebino]

Every kid case is different. Ghule is a man. He’s ready, even at 20. In fact, you could make an argument that he could have played in the A last season and not look out of place at all. His development is not being rushed.

I agree with Brunet (I believe) who said that he will have become our best D at the end of the season. He’s that ready.

The others will be sent down one way or the other.

BTW, having both Harris and JackEye in the A would push a lot of Ds down the ladder in Laval. Not saying it’s not good; but it would mean that Barron becomes 3rd or 4th in Laval, Norlinder 6th and Fairbrudder packing his shit for TR. Not sure it’s best for all.

As for Slaf, it scares me to think of whom he would play with down there.

 

[Runner77]

Huge blow to Barron considering Xhekaj is undrafted and was a no-brainer to make the team

Pedigree should only take you so far. Actual performance should be the deciding factor.

 

[abo9]

I'd like to understand how folks quantify that a player failed because they were rushed. I see people talking about Galch being rushed - yet he had a great start to his career, played sheltered minutes with our best players, scored 30 as a Hab. Got injured, had some time in the NHL player program and fell off a cliff. I get that he played some time as a 4th line C but the injury and personal issues are clearly bigger deals then having to play NHL 4th line. If he had started in the AHL or NHL, his skating was always going to hold him back.

How do you prove that KK would have been better of in the AHL or Europe? His biggest issue is skating, why would time in the AHL vs NHL improve on how he skates? Isn't it likely that he just has a tool kit that is missing some tools? And who is responsible for him coming to camp 3 years in a row - likely including this one -with the same sub par ability to skate. Skating is a skill you improve on in the off season, that's on him.

Bottom line "rushed" seems to be used for any prospect that a fan likes that doesn't turn out. Yet many don't turn out - I could list hundreds of players drafted high that were brought along slow and suck. Were these players dev curve hampered by delayed time in the NHL? Because if rushed is a thing, delayed surely has to be as well. Best to focus on what exactly the player needs to work on and where it would best to work on it. For most players that can take an NHL shift and not look out of place, that league is the NHL.

Mete is a prime example of "rushed".

Obviously you kever know if he turned out better than he would have been developing in lower level leagues, but the guy wasn't good at the NHL level and its hery possible that he never took a step forward due to that.

Kotkaniemi was also rushed: you could see in hist first few games at 18 that he was trying things and being creative offensively, but he wasn't strong enough, got bumped down the lineup and ended up playing scared with the puck.

In short, I think "rushing a prospect" can be bad mostly for the mental side of things: it kills a player's confidence and have them shift their focus from "becoming better" to "being good enough to hold a spot".

And of course with less physically developed players you risk injuries.

That said, each player needs to be handled based on their own needs. Others used Suzuki as an example of a prospect that made the jump... but Suzuki played 2 years in the OHL dominating the competition before becoming an NHL player. He was physically ready and our 2nd best center at that point in time.

 

[BaseballCoach]

..... each player needs to be handled based on their own needs. Others used Suzuki as an example of a prospect that made the jump... but Suzuki played 2 years in the OHL dominating the competition before becoming an NHL player. He was physically ready and our 2nd best center at that point in time.

Guhle also played those two years in the CHL - big accolades, TCJ captain, NHL size - he is fine here.

 

[BaseballCoach]

Mete is a prime example of "rushed".

Poster boy for the concept. Came up 3 years too early. But even if he had arrived at 22 instead of 19 with 2 years in the A, he was never going to be a top-4 D. Everyone including me was taken in by his great skating stride, but there is much more to playing D than that.

 

[schwang26]

Suzuki learned faster playing against NHLers than he would have against Laurent Dauphin and Nate Schnarr.

Mete and Fleury were mid-round picks. Mete had no business trtyng to crack an NHL lineup at 19 at 5'8" and with no shot.

Tinordi had no skill. Juulsen stayed in the WHL, then did AHL and still busted. Not fast enough for the NHL.

DeLaRose lacked offensive skill, and should have been groomed as a Benoit Brunet type.

KK should have been a mid-first round pick at best. Offensive skill is second-tier.

Poehling played more AHL games than NHL games prior to his 23rd birthday. He just is not that good offensively. Maybe he would have done better with the current development group and lower pressure in Montreal, but we will never know.

It's what's between the ears in Suzukis case. He's an intelligent player, so I think he adjusted to the NHL game well because he thinks the game at that pace. Gallagher on the other hand is 95% heart and effort. He had to hone his game.

 

[BaseballCoach]

It's what's between the ears in Suzukis case. He's an intelligent player, so I think he adjusted to the NHL game well because he thinks the game at that pace. Gallagher on the other hand is 95% heart and effort. He had to hone his game.

I think Guhle, Xhekaj and Slaf are also intelligent players and they have the NHL size.

Harris is super-intelligent but I think he needs to learn to defend against men a bit in the A.

 

[26Mats]

Huge blow to Barron considering Xhekaj is undrafted and was a no-brainer to make the team

Xhekaj is older than Barron.

If Barron wants to compare himself to Xhekaj, he can wait until he's Xhekaj's age.

At any rate, both are different players with different skill sets that the other will never have. Xhekaj will never have Barron's skating stride. Barron needs to focus on Barron and improving his game with experience.

 

[abo9]

Guhle also played those two years in the CHL - big accolades, TCJ captain, NHL size - he is fine here.

Yeah I was not talking about individual players this year.

Slaf - I think he's not there quite yet, but he's definitely strong enough. Mental side I'd be more worried about but then, hopefully the coach knows when to cut him.

Guhle - D's take longer, but he's big and plays well. No big red flags here.

Harris - Hasn't played pro yet, but plenty of college players make the transition seamlessly. Not too worried there.

Xhekaj - He's got the swag and size. I don't think he'd make many NHL teams this year, but Montreal is working with the D's that are available. If he's better than the others than so be it. Undrafted dude I'm not worried about really.

 

[schwang26]

I think Guhle, Xhekaj and Slaf are also intelligent players and they have the NHL size.

Harris is super-intelligent but I think he needs to learn to defend against men a bit in the A.

Harris looked great last year. I think it's more of a case of the partners in exhibition. Honestly, I think only Guhle looked great in the exhibition. Even Xhekaj made some mistakes.
It's going to be a long season with those guys learning the ropes. Teams usually don't dress 2 let alone 3 rookie D.