Confirmed with Link: Slafkovsky, Guhle, Harris and Xhekaj made the team!!

[BaseballCoach]

Harris looked great last year. I think it's more of a case of the partners in exhibition. Honestly, I think only Guhle looked great in the exhibition. Even Xhekaj made some mistakes.
It's going to be a long season with those guys learning the ropes. Teams usually don't dress 2 let alone 3 rookie D.

Let them learn the ropes. I'm not for tanking on purpose, but I am ok with patiently learning. I think Harris should maybe go down when Matheson and Edmundson are both playing.

 

[Deebs]

Huge blow to Barron considering Xhekaj is undrafted and was a no-brainer to make the team

Not really

 

[japhi]

Mete is a prime example of "rushed".

To claim Mete was rushed you can't just point to the fact he played in the NHL early in his career, you need to demonstrate that he had significantly more upside and that upside was squashed because of how we was utilized in the NHL.

When I look at a guy like Mete I see a player that if not rushed, may never have played ANY games in the NHL. This is a 5'9 dman, a guy with limited offense tools, a muffin for a shot, fourth round pick, that played 250 games in the NHL.. Where is the upside here? How is his career anyway disappointing based on who the player actually is? Let's say he plays a few seasons in the AHL, does he come into the NHL after that stint as a 6'1 PMD with a laser shot? Would he have learned more paired with Brook then he did with Weber? Of course not, he would almost for sure be the same, maybe slightly better, probably slight worse version of who is is - an undersized dman with limited offensive set.

 

[1909]

Harris looked great last year. I think it's more of a case of the partners in exhibition. Honestly, I think only Guhle looked great in the exhibition. Even Xhekaj made some mistakes.
It's going to be a long season with those guys learning the ropes. Teams usually don't dress 2 let alone 3 rookie D.

Especially starting a season with three on the left side because of Matheson's injury and having a AHL guy (Kovacovic) on the right side. Four very raw d-men. And we all know Wideman and Savard are no Bobby Orrs.

 

[HabsAddict]

My wife assures me that you can't make apple pie out of turnips.

We are not worried that rookie mistakes will cost us a game so i see no problem developing rookies in the NHL.

As for the argument of "develop better in tje AHL". That's nonsense. There are a ton of coaches that can help rookies plus better player support.

As for the turnips...KK and assorted were turnips that through their own fault did not want to put in the work to move to the next level.

The same "system" that "held back" KK the Turnip also create PK and Ghally. Yes, there are degree of coaching but there is also difference between turnips and apples.

Now I'm hungry...

 

[HabsForHire]

Can't manage that way. Got to let the games play out and every players development path is not the same. He's not Suzuki, Galchenyuk, KK, or Mete.

He's not ready, plain and simple

 

[schwang26]

Let them learn the ropes. I'm not for tanking on purpose, but I am ok with patiently learning. I think Harris should maybe go down when Matheson and Edmundson are both playing.

Ya I don't see an alternative

 

[Wats]

My wife assures me that you can't make apple pie out of turnips.

We are not worried that rookie mistakes will cost us a game so i see no problem developing rookies in the NHL.

As for the argument of "develop better in tje AHL". That's nonsense. There are a ton of coaches that can help rookies plus better player support.

As for the turnips...KK and assorted were turnips that through their own fault did not want to put in the work to move to the next level.

The same "system" that "held back" KK the Turnip also create PK and Ghally. Yes, there are degree of coaching but there is also difference between turnips and apples.

Now I'm hungry...

Basically a built in excuse Bergevin used for years. If the player fails, the rookie was always a turnip. If the player succeeds, it's an example how right decision was made. Meanwhile Colorado sent Rantanen to AHL for a whole year, Oilers sent Draisaitl back to junior, Huberdeau was sent back to junior. Sure guys like Matthews/McDavid/McKinnon/Crosby/etc were able to jump right to NHL but are you really going to say Slafkovsky is anywhere close to their level? He was barely a passable 3rd liner who showed flashes of potential. You're going to call KK/Galchenyuk turnips but they were actually more impressive than Slafkovsky at 18 camp/preseason.

Xhekaj showed flashes but he is not a NHL defenseman right now. He fights and hits but he got burned quite a few times defensively. I'm not as worried about him as it seems he's only up because Edmundson/Matheson are out. Believe he'll go back once they return. He's still very raw and made huge strides by staying in the OHL an extra year. He is literally a poster example how one can develop by taking it slow. Not sure if people actually believe he'd be the same player being a #7 D in Laval last year instead of being an overager playing big minutes on a successful team.

Not a fan of Guhle starting the year right away but not as bad if they play him ~22min/game like in preseason with the greenlight to carry puck/jump into offense and forgive all the mistakes (we've seen quite a few resulting in goals against/penalties that resulted in goals again).

Harris I agree with keeping in NHL, he's older and we need to know what we have.

 

[abo9]

To claim Mete was rushed you can't just point to the fact he played in the NHL early in his career, you need to demonstrate that he had significantly more upside and that upside was squashed because of how we was utilized in the NHL.

When I look at a guy like Mete I see a player that if not rushed, may never have played ANY games in the NHL. This is a 5'9 dman, a guy with limited offense tools, a muffin for a shot, fourth round pick, that played 250 games in the NHL.. Where is the upside here? How is his career anyway disappointing based on who the player actually is? Let's say he plays a few seasons in the AHL, does he come into the NHL after that stint as a 6'1 PMD with a laser shot? Would he have learned more paired with Brook then he did with Weber? Of course not, he would almost for sure be the same, maybe slightly better, probably slight worse version of who is is - an undersized dman with limited offensive set.

Depends on your definition of "rushed". He came too quick in the NHL to have any sort of chance to become better is my point. Let's not act like he was a useful Dman right out of the gate - he wasn't ready to be an NHL regular and an AHL tweener would have done a similar or better job.

You don't think he could have benefitted from 2-3 more years in the minors? That he could never have developed as a Spurgeon (a 6th round pick undersized Dman who didn't have crazy offensive numbers in juniors or AHL).

Obviously, since he was a 4th rounder, any projection of becoming an impact player is optimistic, and he is probably happy with the way things turned out, but I'm not sure how more "rushed" he could have been.

 

[Habs Halifax]

He's not ready, plain and simple

You don't know that... plain and simple. Possible you are correct but possibly you are incorrect so it's not plain and simple.

 

[Habs Halifax]

Do you honestly think Suzuki wouldn't have become the C he is today had he started in the AHL like Gallagher did in his age 20 year? The argument is that there's literally nothing to gain by having them start in NHL on a super terrible team. The logic of they'll figure it out if they are good applies if they are sent to AHL or start in NHL. Nothing to lose. Only difference is that it eliminates the 'being rushed' risk that many refute.

It's funny because when you look back at the Mete/Tinordi/Juulsen/Kotkaniemi/DLR/Poehling/Fleury/etc threads, they all have the same conversations too. They were so good that they had to start in the NHL yet when they failed, nothing could have been done different. At what point can a prospect that looks impressive as a young rookie 18/19/20 year old falling off be the organization's fault for not developing? Why not just try slowly bringing them up like many successful teams have in the past...even past Montreal players.

There are many different approaches you can take. That's the point. You are focused on the patient less risk approach. I totally get that angle but it's not a one way street like that. Each situation and player needs to be managed and trying to predict what is best before regular season games are played is premature.

Sometimes, we have to realize that some past picks were just bad draft picks. The success rate at turning over NHL players is low and that applies to all teams. Habs just had a mixture of bad draft power, bad drafting, and also bad development. But some fans think it was bad development and ignore the other two.

Sorry but I'm not the type to give absolute predictions as a fan. We don't have all the information and I trust Gorton/Hughes/MLS over other fans. This is not about "rushing". This is about player confidence, momentum, and opportunity/ice time. Many different roads we can take with each of our young guys

 

[Habs Halifax]

Let them learn the ropes. I'm not for tanking on purpose, but I am ok with patiently learning. I think Harris should maybe go down when Matheson and Edmundson are both playing.

I agree. Harris would have lots to gain by playing 20 min a game in the AHL and running a PP with Barron.

 

[Runner77]

I agree. Harris would have lots to gain by playing 20 min a game in the AHL and running a PP with Barron.

That could happen sooner than later depending on how successful Hughes will be in acquiring the veteran D he’s said to be looking for.

 

[Canadienna]

I think this is isn't the right move, but I'll give Marty some leash here.

Edit: Okay not leash. I'll give him some time to make it work before I whinge.

 

[Paddy17]

I'd like to understand how folks quantify that a player failed because they were rushed. I see people talking about Galch being rushed - yet he had a great start to his career, played sheltered minutes with our best players, scored 30 as a Hab. Got injured, had some time in the NHL player program and fell off a cliff. I get that he played some time as a 4th line C but the injury and personal issues are clearly bigger deals then having to play NHL 4th line. If he had started in the AHL or NHL, his skating was always going to hold him back.

How do you prove that KK would have been better of in the AHL or Europe? His biggest issue is skating, why would time in the AHL vs NHL improve on how he skates? Isn't it likely that he just has a tool kit that is missing some tools? And who is responsible for him coming to camp 3 years in a row - likely including this one -with the same sub par ability to skate. Skating is a skill you improve on in the off season, that's on him.

Bottom line "rushed" seems to be used for any prospect that a fan likes that doesn't turn out. Yet many don't turn out - I could list hundreds of players drafted high that were brought along slow and suck. Were these players dev curve hampered by delayed time in the NHL? Because if rushed is a thing, delayed surely has to be as well. Best to focus on what exactly the player needs to work on and where it would best to work on it. For most players that can take an NHL shift and not look out of place, that league is the NHL.

Blanket statements and assumptions are used by people who do not want to think. It's easy for them to neatly classify things so that they don't need to analyse case by case. Sure, there are very broad principles and certain rules that can guide your decision, but each case has to be analysed by taking into account environment, circumstances, and root causes.

Yes, we should learn from the past in order not to repeat the same mistakes. The problem is that lots of people learn the wrong things from the past, because the conclusions they drew is superficial and flawed.

E.g., "Player X failed because he was in the NHL at 18 and played out of position, therefore most who stay in the NHL without dominating at 18 will fail."

Conclusion: always analyse each player on the real-world data available.

 

[HabsAddict]

Basically a built in excuse Bergevin used for years. If the player fails, the rookie was always a turnip. If the player succeeds, it's an example how right decision was made. Meanwhile Colorado sent Rantanen to AHL for a whole year, Oilers sent Draisaitl back to junior, Huberdeau was sent back to junior. Sure guys like Matthews/McDavid/McKinnon/Crosby/etc were able to jump right to NHL but are you really going to say Slafkovsky is anywhere close to their level? He was barely a passable 3rd liner who showed flashes of potential. You're going to call KK/Galchenyuk turnips but they were actually more impressive than Slafkovsky at 18 camp/preseason.

Xhekaj showed flashes but he is not a NHL defenseman right now. He fights and hits but he got burned quite a few times defensively. I'm not as worried about him as it seems he's only up because Edmundson/Matheson are out. Believe he'll go back once they return. He's still very raw and made huge strides by staying in the OHL an extra year. He is literally a poster example how one can develop by taking it slow. Not sure if people actually believe he'd be the same player being a #7 D in Laval last year instead of being an overager playing big minutes on a successful team.

Not a fan of Guhle starting the year right away but not as bad if they play him ~22min/game like in preseason with the greenlight to carry puck/jump into offense and forgive all the mistakes (we've seen quite a few resulting in goals against/penalties that resulted in goals again).

Harris I agree with keeping in NHL, he's older and we need to know what we have.

Galchy and KK have gone nowhere despite all this time and multi teams....Turnips.

All of the curent crop looks more willing to learn and improve....Apples.

I don't care if Slaf is showing "third line" abilities today. With mentoring he will improve. Ditto for the rest of the gang of 4....delicious apples ripening.

All this is because right now, we don't care about winning, just making more apples.

Basically a built in excuse Bergevin used for years. If the player fails, the rookie was always a turnip. If the player succeeds, it's an example how right decision was made. Meanwhile Colorado sent Rantanen to AHL for a whole year, Oilers sent Draisaitl back to junior, Huberdeau was sent back to junior. Sure guys like Matthews/McDavid/McKinnon/Crosby/etc were able to jump right to NHL but are you really going to say Slafkovsky is anywhere close to their level? He was barely a passable 3rd liner who showed flashes of potential. You're going to call KK/Galchenyuk turnips but they were actually more impressive than Slafkovsky at 18 camp/preseason.

Xhekaj showed flashes but he is not a NHL defenseman right now. He fights and hits but he got burned quite a few times defensively. I'm not as worried about him as it seems he's only up because Edmundson/Matheson are out. Believe he'll go back once they return. He's still very raw and made huge strides by staying in the OHL an extra year. He is literally a poster example how one can develop by taking it slow. Not sure if people actually believe he'd be the same player being a #7 D in Laval last year instead of being an overager playing big minutes on a successful team.

Not a fan of Guhle starting the year right away but not as bad if they play him ~22min/game like in preseason with the greenlight to carry puck/jump into offense and forgive all the mistakes (we've seen quite a few resulting in goals against/penalties that resulted in goals again).

Harris I agree with keeping in NHL, he's older and we need to know what we have.

You are still confusing apples and turnips.

No matter how much you write, it means nothing because you are ignoring what the players are capable of.

Mete, Galchy, KK are turnips no matter how long you wait.

 

[donghabs98]

If only our last top 5 draft picks had a coach with this mindset.

 

[HabsForHire]

You don't know that... plain and simple. Possible you are correct but possibly you are incorrect so it's not plain and simple.

He's not going to explode in 9 games and do what's needed to stay all year. But we can disagree, I'm not replying a million times

 

[Natey]

Whether the best or not, it's been a while since the team witnessed such a plethora of young players having significant upside and promise. After years of lingering in the darkness of mediocrity, the future for the team is appreciably brighter.

Agree 100%. I wasn't even complaining. I don't think Mesar should be in the NHL. I just hope to goodness he stays in the AHL.

 

[Natey]

But is not doing great at the Rocket camp, according to Leroux.

Yet scored and assisted in a game after being new to camp..

 

[strongcomp05]

He's not ready, plain and simple

says who? you literally have no idea if he's ready or not

 

[PavelBrendl]

If only our last top 5 draft picks had a coach with this mindset.

 

[dinodebino]

Yet scored and assisted in a game after being new to camp..

Yet Leroux is not sure. He puts him on a potential 3rd line, as a maybe.

 

[HuGort]

That is also an assumption based on the past. The 1985 Habs were top 5 team in the league, the 2021 Habs were dead last. Weird comparison to make when everyone knows this team is going to be bad.

We'll see how this management will handles their struggles but to me it's a bad sign that all these rookies are starting with the team. This is how the Sabres handled their rebuild and IMO even if they manage to develop it creates core that's used to losing. Little positive from them being up the entirety of this season.

Buffalo had mismanagement is what pushed their rebuild back. Arizona also. Oilers under Peter C. Leafs too for that matter. Kessel was A major bad trade. Why they each took 10+ years to rebuild. Teams that had good management rebuilt in less than half that time. Tampa, Colorado, Rangerc, etc..

 

[Andrei79]

Funnily enough, Mesar was the best one in camp.

Not even close.