Proposal: Skinner to NYI

[Roboturner913]

Mock me all you like, but if Hall got a mediocre dman, what kind of value are you expecting from skinner?

Nothing. As has been established in this thread, we've been trying to trade him for over two years now, and nobody wants him. We can only dream of a generous offer like Strome+Grabovski, hell that's practically charity.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

If you ever took a chance to watch skinner play last season you would know that in addition to his scoring abilities he has developed great defensive ability which he lacked previously. So i definitely think he will carry more value as two-way players usually do as opposed to simply a scoring threat like the previously mentioned hall.

I don't agree with this (as a Canes fan). He was terrible defensively before and last season he has improved enough for it to not be an issue now. He's not "great defensively", he's decent.

 

[Bossy Mike]

lol we are literally going in a circle if you wanna know about the concussions read through the first half of this thread as canes fans have already explained why its really a non issue

Yeah no problem. Dizzy or not, he may be able to score.

 

[Roboturner913]

The Canes had a bit of success thanks to 3 pairs of pretty good dmen last year. They will look to build on that, by trading Skinner for a solid #4, then they can have 4! pairs of pretty good dmen if Fleury is ready. That could be a 33% increase in defense. They allowed 220 goals last year. 33% improvement knocks off 73 goals. Skinner is only going to score 30. That's a net of 40 goals.

Holy **** this is genius!

 

[Bossy Mike]

Holy **** this is genius!

It's reductio ad absurdum. If you fall for that line, I could tell you anything.

 

[FreshSeabass]

No, I did not. Retread it and show me where I said he will be traded for a mid-level defenseman instead of saying that's his value. I said "don't be shocked". Implying his value. Still, I have yet to hear why skinner would return more than Hall. Ignore the question, ignore the concussions. His value in a trade is less than you think it is.

Ok really this is all moot because IMHO i would rather keep a young 30- goal scorer. So if his value is garbage like you are implying i would rather keep him because he has pretty high value to us right now so i will gladly hold on to him....remember an isles fan made this thread soooo.....

 

[CodeE]

No, I did not. Retread it and show me where I said he will be traded for a mid-level defenseman instead of saying that's his value. I said "don't be shocked". Implying his value. Still, I have yet to hear why skinner would return more than Hall. Ignore the question, ignore the concussions. His value in a trade is less than you think it is.

Skinner is in a similar situation to the Canes that Ho-Sang is in for us, just different situations. Skinner's value is higher to the Canes than other teams, who are concerned about his concussion history. Ho-Sang's value is higher to the Islanders than other teams, who are concerned about his character issues. The GM who currently holds the asset gets the final say in the asset's value, not prospective messageboard fans who go "hey ur guy sucks give him to me 4 really cheap". An asset who is valued higher by his GM than by the rest of the league's "trade value" pretty much never gets moved.

Now I'll just sit back and wait for the "are you saying Skinner has equal value to Ho-Sang? " posts.

 

[Roboturner913]

It's reductio ad absurdum. If you fall for that line, I could tell you anything.

*gasp*

So you're telling me he wasn't serious????????????????

you'll have to excuse me, now I am all verklempt. I don't know if I can handle all this drama

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Mock me all you like, but if Hall got a mediocre dman, what kind of value are you expecting from skinner?

Simple, because value isn't determined in a vacuum, as you are trying to do. Edmonton was extremely deep at forward with young talent: McDavid, Eberle, Puljujarvi, RNH, Draisaitl, Lucic, etc.. and very weak on defense. It's been their Achilles heel so they they traded from a position of strength (forward) for a position of weakness (defense).

Carolina has the opposite problem. They are very strong on Defense (Hanifin, Faulk, Hainsey, Pesce, Slavin, Murphy, Fleury, McKeown, Bean, etc...) and very weak on offense. So it would be silly to trade from a position of weakness FOR a position of strength.

Teams make trades not to get the most value, they make trades to improve their team. Edmonton is a better team today by losing Hall and gaining Larsson (who I think is much more than a "mediocre" defenseman). If the Canes traded Skinner for a 3,4 Dman, they would be a much worse team. Therefore, as of right now, yes, Skinner's value is MORE than a 3/4 defenseman, simply because the Canes would never accept that in a trade. That may change next year, or the next, or the next, but right now, it's really not more complicated than that.

 

[FreshSeabass]

I don't agree with this (as a Canes fan). He was terrible defensively before and last season he has improved enough for it to not be an issue now. He's not "great defensively", he's decent.

you can agree, disagree, fly a kite for all i care. i meant what i said his defensive game has improved greatly compared to it being virtually non existent before last season. He is no jordan staal but for player of his size and ability he has improved greatly i don't see the issue.

 

[Bossy Mike]

*gasp*

So you're telling me he wasn't serious????????????????

you'll have to excuse me, now I am all verklempt. I don't know if I can handle all this drama

Ok. Skinner is awesome. He's worth more than anyone in the league. (See how it works.)

 

[Roboturner913]

Skinner is in a similar situation to the Canes that Ho-Sang is in for us, just different situations. Skinner's value is higher to the Canes than other teams, who are concerned about his concussion history. Ho-Sang's value is higher to the Islanders than other teams, who are concerned about his character issues. The GM who currently holds the asset gets the final say in the asset's value, not prospective messageboard fans who go "hey ur guy sucks give him to me 4 really cheap". An asset who is valued higher by his GM than by the rest of the league's "trade value" pretty much never gets moved.

Now I'll just sit back and wait for the "are you saying Skinner has equal value to Ho-Sang? " posts.

would trade straight up for Ho-Sang, then put him on a line with Aho. Then trade for Bo Horvat, and have him contract his name. It'll be the Bo'ats and Hoes line.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Carolina has has an awesome young d-core. Not saying they don't. But teams are always looking for 3 & 4 mid level defenseman. Don't be shocked if skinner is traded for a 3,4 dman.

No, I did not. Retread it and show me where I said he will be traded for a mid-level defenseman instead of saying that's his value. I said "don't be shocked". Implying his value.

Try reading this as if you didn't write it.

Carolina has has an awesome young d-core. Not saying they don't. But teams are always looking for 3 & 4 mid level defenseman. Don't be shocked if skinner is traded for a 3,4 dman.

Do you see how people can think this means you think he will be traded? Be more clear next time.

Still, I have yet to hear why skinner would return more than Hall. Ignore the question, ignore the concussions. His value in a trade is less than you think it is.

A player's trade value is not set on what you can get in return for him, but what that player means to the team.

For example: If I sell an apple for 1.00$, what I'm really saying is I would rather have 1.00$ than have that apple- ie the apple's value is less than or equivalent to the value of 1.00$. This does not mean that the value of an apple and 1.00$ are literally the same thing- rather, this is just something done to save time.

So, what people are saying is that Skinner's value to the Hurricanes is such that, if all they were offered was a mid level 3 or 4 defenseman, they would say no because of team needs- and ergo, Skinner's value is higher than that.

You're trying to use past precedence of a completely different context to justify Skinner's current trade value, which makes no sense. "I bought an apple last year in the United States for .30$, why is it now 2.00$ in middle-of-nowhere Ethiopia??".

 

[Roboturner913]

Ok. Skinner is awesome. He's worth more than anyone in the league. (See how it works.)

He is? Cool, let's trade him for Gretzky. Gretzky's still playing, right?

 

[TheOllieC]

great thread

 

[Bossy Mike]

Try reading this as if you didn't write it.



Do you see how people can think this means you think he will be traded? Be more clear next time.



A player's trade value is not set on what you can get in return for him, but what that player means to the team.

For example: If I sell an apple for 1.00$, what I'm really saying is I would rather have 1.00$ than have that apple- ie the apple is less than or equivalent to in value than the value of 1.00$. This does not mean that the value of an apple and 1.00$ are the same.

So, what people are saying is that Skinner's value to the Hurricanes is such that, if all they were offered was a mid level 3 or 4 defenseman, they would say no because of team needs- and ergo, Skinner's value is higher than that.

You're trying to use past precedence of a completely different context to justify Skinner's current trade value, which makes no sense. "I bought an apple last year in the United States for .30$, why is it now 2.00$ in middle-of-nowhere Ethiopia??".

You don't need to teach me semantics. If you read my posts, I never said skinner will be traded for 3,4 defenseman. I merely stated that's his value. Like it or not, that's my opinion and nothing you can tell me, I don't already know. So in my mind, (and many other's minds) skinner holds the same value as a mid-tier defenseman

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

I merely stated that's his value. Like it or not, that's my opinion and nothing you can tell me, I don't already know. So in my mind, (and many other's minds) skinner holds the same value as a mid-tier defenseman

Sure, I'm just saying you're wrong.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Skinner is in a similar situation to the Canes that Ho-Sang is in for us, just different situations. Skinner's value is higher to the Canes than other teams, who are concerned about his concussion history. Ho-Sang's value is higher to the Islanders than other teams, who are concerned about his character issues.

I get what you are saying and agree with some of it, but not all of it. First off, Ho-Sang hasn't proven anything at the NHL level, so not only are there character concerns, but there's also the concern as to what kind of NHL player will he become, so that's an additional risk that Skinner doesn't carry.

But set that minor nuance aside. The bigger thing is what I said in my prior post. Value isn't determined in a vacuum. A team that is deep at forward (Edmonton for instance) would not place much value on Skinner at all. Regardless of his concussion history, they don't need him so wouldn't give up much for him. A team that needs forwards (NJ before they picked up Hall for instance) would value him much higher value on him, because if they need an excellent goal scorer, Skinner would be coveted. I'm not saying the concussion concerns won't come into play for any offer, but a team in need would still value Skinner much more than a team without the need. I don't know other teams needs in depth so I can't tell you what teams might need a goal scorer as much as Carolina does. In the end Carolina probably is at or near the top of the list though so he likely does hold more value to Carolina than other teams, but not just because of concerns over concussions, because of team needs as well.

 

[Penaltykiller17]

You don't need to teach me semantics. If you read my posts, I never said skinner will be traded for 3,4 defenseman. I merely stated that's his value. Like it or not, that's my opinion and nothing you can tell me, I don't already know. So in my mind, (and many other's minds) skinner holds the same value as a mid-tier defenseman

So if we're using one bad GM's questionable trade, can I use one too please?

Since Toronto traded two unprotected 1st rounders and a 2nd for Kessel, I propose NYI do the same, or at least similar value.

How's this.... Skinner for Barzal, Dal Colle and Ho-Sang? That's within the guidelines of the precedent you're setting.

 

[NotOpie]

Sorry guys, but my return is late to the party, but this thread was getting WAY too serious, so I must rejoinder...

I really think Rask has the potential to smile if he were coached properly and given time to grow into the role.

Nope, not gonna happen without some help. Now if he and Andrej Nestrasil were to share a tooth, they might be able to manage a toothy smirk between them.

I'm not sure they have the right coaches in place to teach proper smiling. Maybe they can hire former Hurricane legend Chad Larsose part-time as Director of Player Personnel's smiles.

Well we hired Ulf Samuelsson to squelch all unnecessary smiling down in Charlotte.

Jeffy can count to potato.

Coach: "Jeff, how many fingers do you see"

Skinner: "Thursday"

So the OP makes a "bad trade" proposal. Not one other Islander fan agrees with OP. Every Cane fan makes a mockery out of the post. A simple no would have been fine, but I guess the childish remarks are the better route?

Sir you are mistaking our drunkenness for childishness. Come on over to our "Bad Jeff Skinner Proposals drinking game thread" so that we can remedy that situation.

When you have a drinking game thread dedicated to the outrageous Skinner proposals we receive - it starts to all make sense.

Unless you read the thread 1st thing in the morning and get fired for being drunk on the job...then it just goes back to being painful again.

another thing to consider if we traded skinner, is the amount of 17 yo girls in north carolina that would riot because he wouldn't be able to take them to prom

Just girls?

It wasn't that long ago that people were saying the same thing about Sidney Crosby. One more hit away, will never be the same player again, etc.

Funny how short people's memories are. Now we have another guy going through the exact same thing and Canes fans just want to sweep it under the rug like it's no big deal. Wake up, people. Once a player starts to go down the road of concussions, there's no turning back.

Fact: Skinner is one hit away from being the next Sidney Crosby.

Wait for it....wait for it....Skinner's smurf....despite being the exact same height and weight as Sidney Crosby.

Skinner is in a similar situation to the Canes that Ho-Sang is in for us, just different situations. Skinner's value is higher to the Canes than other teams, who are concerned about his concussion history. Ho-Sang's value is higher to the Islanders than other teams, who are concerned about his character issues. The GM who currently holds the asset gets the final say in the asset's value, not prospective messageboard fans who go "hey ur guy sucks give him to me 4 really cheap". An asset who is valued higher by his GM than by the rest of the league's "trade value" pretty much never gets moved.

Now I'll just sit back and wait for the "are you saying Skinner has equal value to Ho-Sang? " posts.

Until Ho-Sang has the concussion history that Jeff Skinner does he will never be the player that young Jeffy has become....

 

[CodeE]

I get what you are saying and agree with some of it, but not all of it. First off, Ho-Sang hasn't proven anything at the NHL level, so not only are there character concerns, but there's also the concern as to what kind of NHL player will he become, so that's an additional risk that Skinner doesn't carry.

But set that minor nuance aside. The bigger thing is what I said in my prior post. Value isn't determined in a vacuum. A team that is deep at forward (Edmonton for instance) would not place much value on Skinner at all. Regardless of his concussion history, they don't need him so wouldn't give up much for him. A team that needs forwards (NJ before they picked up Hall for instance) would value him much higher value on him, because if they need an excellent goal scorer, Skinner would be coveted. I'm not saying the concussion concerns won't come into play for any offer, but a team in need would still value Skinner much more than a team without the need. I don't know other teams needs in depth so I can't tell you what teams might need a goal scorer as much as Carolina does. In the end Carolina probably is at or near the top of the list though so he likely does hold more value to Carolina than other teams, but not just because of concerns over concussions, because of team needs as well.

Well yeah, obviously. Edmonton with Fayne & spare parts was going to pay a lot more for RHD than Winnipeg with Buff, Trouba, Myers.

A number of teams (my Islanders, the Wild off the top of my head) were rumored to be shopping their 1sts + other assets for forward help before the draft. But aside from the 40 minutes of Hall/Larsson/Subban/Weber and also Stamkos just resigned, there weren't a lot of major trades to bring in a forward. Either other GMs were valuing their forwards too highly, top line guys who kept popping up in rumors (like JVR) were flat-out unavailable, or everyone wanted to wait for July 1st and make offers for the handful of decent UFA forwards.

 

[Bossy Mike]

So if we're using one bad GM's questionable trade, can I use one too please?

Since Toronto traded two unprotected 1st rounders and a 2nd for Kessel, I propose NYI do the same, or at least similar value.

How's this.... Skinner for Barzal, Dal Colle and Ho-Sang? That's within the guidelines of the precedent you're setting.

Yawnzo. You're not saying why skinner deserves more. Chia trading Hall was not good, but why word GMRF do better?

 

[Bossy Mike]

I've been asking for a few hours and not one person answered me directly why skinner holds high value. The fact that no one even bothered to say why skinner is good speaks volumes. It seems like the best you could say about him is that he doesn't have too many concussions.

 

[Roboturner913]

Yawnzo. You're not saying why skinner deserves more. Chia trading Hall was not good, but why word GMRF do better?

He won't, it's been speculated and is probably true that Skinner actually died in the 2014 preseason and they've been using an elaborate remote control/mannequin setup to skate his preserved body up and down the ice during games.

 

[tarheelhockey]

I had a very valuable contribution to make, but I can't remember it because of the concussions.