Proposal: Skinner to NYI

[Jester9881]

Only if he can play LW.... we'll even throw in one of the other RH fowards we have if you give us another goalie. We will not be satisfied until the Islanders have all the goalies, all the LW's and no RH forwards.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Except it's a lot easier to type "he's injury prone" than "He's had 3 concussions so that concerns me about his future". Most hockey fans know what Skinner's problem areas are and aren't talking about his ACLs, his shoulders, his wrists.

But is missing 37 games over 6 seasons really "injury prone"? It may be "easier to type it", but I don't think the facts back it up. Wouldn't you agree?

He is one hit away from retirement, but as has been said, every NHL player is one hit away from retirement. His concussion history just makes him more likely to be one hit away from retirement.

Yes and no. The more concussions you have, the more at risk you are for CTE later in life. So, in that sense, since Skinner has had 3 concussions and if he is concerned about CTE and life after hockey, then yes, he could decide "enough is enough" and hang them up if he gets another concussion.

In terms of being more "likely" to get a concussion of such magnitude (like Savard got) which causes him to retire, Skinner really is not more likely than any other player.

And yeah, people use extreme examples to prove their point. I try not to strawman the argument

There's a difference between extreme and factually incorrect. In this case, both have been applied as I've shown in previous posts. Either way, I have no problem pointing that out when it occurs.

but if other injury-prone players (even if they are significantly more injury-prone) take a massive hit in value, why doesn't Skinner?

Please name some players in the 22-26 year old range, who have played in 92% of their games throughout their career whose value has taken a "massive hit", especially when they are still very productive (a 33G and 28G season in the past 3 seasons). When you show me some examples of those players, I'll consider that his value should take a "massive" hit. Let me say it again. I agree that concerns over concussions are valid and thus affect value, but to say his value will take a "massive" hit is just silly.

 

[YesCubed]

Canes fans are great

 

[Roboturner913]

Skinner as a player is great, but many people believe concussions are a concern. Agree with the assessment or not, but that fact has to be accounted for in any trade proposal for skinner.

Agree, if many people believe concussions are a concern, then that has to be true. Carolina should just be lucky that anybody would even be willing to take Skinner off their hands for anything. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if his value becomes so negative at some point they have to add a first round pick just to be rid of him.

Best to do the deal now and get out while the getting's good.

 

[Bossy Mike]

I take it you didn't read my post that you quoted? You know, the one you quoted where I said:

"Again, I stated that his concussion history is a reasonable concern for him, I never denied that."

Unless you missed that (or the other times in this thread where I stated that also), I'm not sure what point you are trying to make?

I suppose you could could say that I was agreeing with you, but not being snarky about it.

 

[GoldiFox]

But is missing 37 games over 6 seasons really "injury prone"? It may be "easier to type it", but I don't think the facts back it up. Wouldn't you agree?



Yes and no. The more concussions you have, the more at risk you are for CTE later in life. So, in that sense, since Skinner has had 3 concussions and if he is concerned about CTE and life after hockey, then yes, he could decide "enough is enough" and hang them up if he gets another concussion.

In terms of being more "likely" to get a concussion of such magnitude (like Savard got) which causes him to retire, Skinner really is not more likely than any other player.



There's a difference between extreme and factually incorrect. In this case, both have been applied as I've shown in previous posts. Either way, I have no problem pointing that out when it occurs.



Please name some players in the 22-26 year old range, who have played in 92% of their games throughout their career whose value has taken a "massive hit", especially when they are still very productive (a 33G and 28G season in the past 3 seasons). When you show me some examples of those players, I'll consider that his value should take a "massive" hit. Let me say it again. I agree that concerns over concussions are valid and thus affect value, but to say his value will take a "massive" hit is just silly.

Roman Josi has had 5 concussions and basically nobody wants the guy... Oh wait, that's not part of his HF narrative. Sorry, carry on.

Patrice Bergeron uh... Crap. Hmm. What about that Skinner guy? He's pretty much ded.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I suppose you could could say that I was agreeing with you, but not being snarky about it.

sorry then. I read it as saying I wasn't agreeing it's a concern. My apologies.

 

[Carolinas Identity*]

jeffrey skinner threads never fail to deliever

they is are the gift that keeps on giving

 

[Bossy Mike]

jeffrey skinner threads never fail to deliever

they is are the gift that keeps on giving

They'll stop giving when he's traded for a mediocre defenseman that all teams covet.

 

[Roboturner913]

Yeah, but if they've been trying to trade him for two years, and there have been no takers yet, I doubt that anybody's willing to give up even a mediocre d-man - and believe you me, the Canes are pretty much desperate for anybody who can line up on D these days.

 

[sheriff bart]

Over the last five seasons, Skinner ranks 136th among NHL players with 336 games played (high is 378, so 42 less than the highest), 134th in PPG at .607, and 36th in GGP at .333.

He's barely alive.

 

[Bossy Mike]

Yeah, but if they've been trying to trade him for two years, and there have been no takers yet, I doubt that anybody's willing to give up even a mediocre d-man - and believe you me, the Canes are pretty much desperate for anybody who can line up on D these days.

Carolina has has an awesome young d-core. Not saying they don't. But teams are always looking for 3 & 4 mid level defenseman. Don't be shocked if skinner is traded for a 3,4 dman.

 

[FreshSeabass]

Carolina has has an awesome young d-core. Not saying they don't. But teams are always looking for 3 & 4 mid level defenseman. Don't be shocked if skinner is traded for a 3,4 dman.

This is gold right here. hey guys we are gonna trade top scorer for another "3,4 dman" similar to the one we just bought out a month ago hmmmm becuz logic.

 

[Bossy Mike]

This is gold right here. hey guys we are gonna trade top scorer for another "3,4 dman" similar to the one we just bought out a month ago hmmmm becuz logic.

Mock me all you like, but if Hall got a mediocre dman, what kind of value are you expecting from skinner?

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Why would Carolina trade a scoring winger, something they desperately need, for a dman, something they don't need at all? Especially, as you point out, when you consider that it's unlikely Skinner by himself will fetch an "equivalent" defenseman.

 

[FreshSeabass]

Mock me all you like, but if Hall got a mediocre dman, what kind of value are you expecting from skinner?

Im saying we would never do that because we dont need dman we have 7 on the roster and and three guys in mckeown, fluery, and carrick banging on the door for a spot on the big club. We literally have no need fro a 3,4 dman so yes i will mock people when they have no idea what they are talking about.

 

[seafoam]

I'd do like Nelson/Strome, Dal Colle, 1st for Skinner.

He's a very good scoring winger who is able to play RW if i remember correctly.

 

[CupHolders]

Mock me all you like, but if Hall got a mediocre dman, what kind of value are you expecting from skinner?

I believe the point to be:

1) not looking to trade him

2) if so, would be for comparable offense in some shape and form not another d-man

So it's moot to say he will only garner 3-4 dman... Because he would not me moved for such a return.

EDIT: oops duplicated the point of previous responses.

 

[Bossy Mike]

I believe the point to be:

1) not looking to trade him

2) if so, would be for comparable offense in some shape and form not another d-man

So it's moot to say he will only garner 3-4 dman... Because he would not me moved for such a return.

EDIT: oops duplicated the point of previous responses.

I'm not saying Car would trade him for a dman. I was just assessing his value. So called "scoring wingers" have less value than you think they do. But keep on mocking me for my opinion about "scoring wingers". I'd love to hear why skinner deserves a greater return than the other great wingers.

 

[Ole Gil]

The Canes had a bit of success thanks to 3 pairs of pretty good dmen last year. They will look to build on that, by trading Skinner for a solid #4, then they can have 4! pairs of pretty good dmen if Fleury is ready. That could be a 33% increase in defense. They allowed 220 goals last year. 33% improvement knocks off 73 goals. Skinner is only going to score 30. That's a net of 40 goals.

 

[FreshSeabass]

I'm not saying Car would trade him for a dman. I was just assessing his value. So called "scoring wingers" have less value than you think they do. But keep on mocking me for my opinion about "scoring wingers". I'd love to hear why skinner deserves a greater return than the other great wingers.

If you ever took a chance to watch skinner play last season you would know that in addition to his scoring abilities he has developed great defensive ability which he lacked previously. So i definitely think he will carry more value as two-way players usually do as opposed to simply a scoring threat like the previously mentioned hall.

 

[Finlandia WOAT]

Skinner's "value"- as with the "value" of any other player, the "value" of anything that can be bought or sold- is not set in a vacuum, but based entirely on context. An apple in a country whose land is 99% apple orchards will be sold for a different price than an apple in a country whose land is 1% apple orchards.

In this case, Carolina has a a desperate need for NHL scoring wingers: their current top 4 is some configuration of Jeff Skinner, Lee Stempniak, Teuvo Terravainen and one of Elias Lindholm, Phil Di Giuseppe or Sebastian Aho. A very, very weak winger lineup. On the other hand, their defense, particularly the left side, is an organizational strength. Ergo, Skinner's "value" is set accordingly: Carolina needs a player like Skinner far, far more than a "3 & 4 middling defenseman".

Also:

I'm not saying Car would trade him for a dman. .

No, you totally just said that.

Carolina has has an awesome young d-core. Not saying they don't. But teams are always looking for 3 & 4 mid level defenseman. Don't be shocked if skinner is traded for a 3,4 dman.

 

[Bossy Mike]

If you ever took a chance to watch skinner play last season you would know that in addition to his scoring abilities he has developed great defensive ability which he lacked previously. So i definitely think he will carry more value as two-way players usually do as opposed to simply a scoring threat like the previously mentioned hall.

Sounds good. How's his concussion history? If all is well, I'd love to have him.

 

[FreshSeabass]

Sounds good. How's his concussion history? If all is well, I'd love to have him.

lol we are literally going in a circle if you wanna know about the concussions read through the first half of this thread as canes fans have already explained why its really a non issue

 

[Bossy Mike]

Skinner's "value"- as with the "value" of any other player, the "value" of anything that can be bought or sold- is not set in a vacuum, but based entirely on context. An apple in a country whose land is 99% apple orchards will be sold for a different price than an apple in a country whose land is 1% apple orchards.

In this case, Carolina has a a desperate need for NHL scoring wingers: their current top 4 is some configuration of Jeff Skinner, Lee Stempniak, Teuvo Terravainen and one of Elias Lindholm, Phil Di Giuseppe or Sebastian Aho. A very, very weak winger lineup. On the other hand, their defense, particularly the left side, is an organizational strength. Ergo, Skinner's "value" is set accordingly: Carolina needs a player like Skinner far, far more than a "3 & 4 middling defenseman".

Also:



No, you totally just said that.

No, I did not. Retread it and show me where I said he will be traded for a mid-level defenseman instead of saying that's his value. I said "don't be shocked". Implying his value. Still, I have yet to hear why skinner would return more than Hall. Ignore the question, ignore the concussions. His value in a trade is less than you think it is.