Sign Marner and Tavares before playoffs?

[MilkofthePoppy]

No. Let them stay motivated.

 

[thewave]

You seem to be factoring in whatever random stuff you want in whatever way you want to get to the conclusion you want.
Nylander doesn't have any hardware anyway, and neither him or Matthews have been better in the playoffs.

Random stuff relevant to winning a cup. Oh I don't know like playoff performances? Yeah sure stuff matters. Show me some stuff where Marner got us to rd3. Oh that's right we never made it past rd2 one time.

You were in the plan the parade camp. It's looking like a pretty shitty camp right now.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Random stuff relevant to winning a cup.

Hardware isn't relevant to winning a cup, and Nylander doesn't have any hardware either. Endorsements aren't relevant to winning a cup, and it's no different for Matthews and Nylander. Past playoff production isn't very relevant to winning a future cup, and Marner is the best on the team at that anyway. You don't get paid for team outcomes, and you especially don't get paid less than your teammates for team outcomes they were also there for.

 

[thewave]

Hardware isn't relevant to winning a cup, and Nylander doesn't have any hardware either. Endorsements aren't relevant to winning a cup, and it's no different for Matthews and Nylander. Past playoff production isn't very relevant to winning a future cup, and Marner is the best on the team at that anyway. You don't get paid for team outcomes, and you especially don't get paid less than your teammates for team outcomes they were also there for.

Hardware is absolutely. Its a primary indicator of a cup winner. Virtually all cup winners have hardware winners! Matthews winning hardware with no cup or McDavid is an indictment on the coach and GM being lousy. Shocking we had a stupid GM and Coach. Imagine my shock, and Shanahan was just as dumb for keeping them so long.

In McDavids case it was not on management. They did make it to the show.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Hardware is absolutely.

Winning regular season hardware has nothing to do with winning a cup. At best, it's a player quality indicator, but you're already ignoring better quality indicators.
And again, Nylander doesn't have any.

 

[thewave]

Winning regular season hardware has nothing to do with winning a cup. At best, it's a player quality indicator, but you're already ignoring better quality indicators to avoid acknowledging that Marner is one of the best players in the world.

You missed the its an indicator part. Not surprising because you almost never enter discussions in good faith.

I am waiting for a response like... Crosby Mackinnon and Kucherov won empty calorie hardware the years around them winning the cup.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You missed the its an indicator part. Not surprising because you almost never enter discussions in good faith.

I am waiting for a response like... Crosby Mackinnon and Kucherov won empty calorie hardware the years around them winning the cup.

It's almost never a real discussion with him anyway.

Beyond the fact that some of his pronouncements are so outrageous that they virtually demand rebuttal, I don't see why anyone engages him.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You missed the its an indicator part.

No, I didn't. In fact, I specifically talked about indicators:

At best, it's a player quality indicator, but you're already ignoring better quality indicators.

The issue is, you're trying to randomly claim a poor and limited indicator of quality that barely anybody has as crucial, because Marner doesn't have it, while simultaneously trying to ignore much better and more accurate indicators and evaluations of player quality that show Marner to be a top tier player in the league. You're also being inconsistent in how you apply this to Marner and Nylander. Seems as if you're the one not entering the discussion in good faith.

 

[ToneDog]

I actually factor in hardware and playoff performances. Marner doesn't have any good games 5 6 7. Hardly comes through in clutch situations. He is paid quite a bit by local endorsements. His brand is nothing in other markets. I would let him test the market no matter what. Same with JT.

Show me don't tell. Let's get to the conference finals on two of the biggest bs contracts ever signed. No results. Time to put up or shut up.

I would do what Yzerman did with Stamkos and make each a take it or leave it contract offer. If they leave, you move on. Rather take a step back than running it back for a 10th year, assuming they do not get past round 2 this year.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Seems like the smart/logical/right move if they do not cave because they think/believe he might walk for nothing. Not sure why the Marner camp wants to wait if the Leafs are willing to sign him in the regular season unless the Leafs are lowballing them. Whatever that means when Leafs are probably willing to pay him 50% more than Reinhart and make him one of the top 5 paid players in the league (as per Mirtle).

If they flop in the playoffs again they should let both of them walk.

Throw Marner's money at Rantanen. Use Tavares money on a cheaper 2C. Anything left over can be used to fix defense or add depth.

They have the opportunity to make a major change in direction of this team next year, and it is their one and only chance at fixing it, they better not screw it up.

 

[thewave]

It's almost never a real discussion with him anyway.

Beyond the fact that some of his pronouncements are so outrageous that they virtually demand rebuttal, I don't see why anyone engages him.

All I know is I am not going to blame our playoff failure on the guy that just score 69 goals and won another rocket. Most teams with rocket winner are a deep playoff team or cup winner. Dubas and Keefe could never resolve that because they weren't good at what they do.

 

[leafsfan2point0]

I’m very confident a deal will get done at some point for both of them (especially JT). But, hypothetically if Marner does walk… A backup plan could be to trade for someone for the season next year for example Panarin or some other vet with one year left - and go all in on Mcdavid in FA if he doesn’t sign a new deal with Edmonton.

 

[BigBlu]

Tavares wants 7M? pfft. Let him walk.

You can easily find better value on the open market for 7 mil.

I'd take him for a home town discount of about 3. He owes us that for sure.

 

[Confucius]

Tavares wants 7M? pfft. Let him walk.

You can easily find better value on the open market for 7 mil.

I'd take him for a home town discount of about 3. He owes us that for sure.

7 million is a fair deal for JT as long as the contract is 3 years or less. 112 players made 7 million or more last season, JT was 67th in Scoring on top of being top 10in face offs won and number 1 in board battles won, as was stated during last nights game.

 

[William Johnson]

It's almost never a real discussion with him anyway.

Beyond the fact that some of his pronouncements are so outrageous that they virtually demand rebuttal, I don't see why anyone engages him.

The statement that there are better indicators of player quality than hardware like Hart Trophies is pretty special. Not sure it cracks the top 10 in terms of outrageousness, though.

 

[WillyC]

Tavares wants 7M? pfft. Let him walk.

You can easily find better value on the open market for 7 mil.

I'd take him for a home town discount of about 3. He owes us that for sure.

Lol… you really believe John Tavares owes you?
Plus, nobody actually knows what JT’s ask is.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I would sign free agent

 

[rumman]

Mirtle, Versteeg, Bunkis, McKee, Bourne have been on record saying Leafs should wait until after the playoffs before signing Marner and Tavares. This morning Korolnek and Feschuk said they do not see a reason to sign the pair before seeing how the team performs in the playoffs.

I'm on record saying there is no reason to sign them before the playoffs unless they give the Leafs a sweet, team friendly deal.

I say wait, both expose to love the city and want to play nowhere else, let’s see if they are true to their words or are all about the money. I could care less if both are gone as long as those dollars are spent wisely to improve the team’s depth, not spent on another two forwards that eat up too much cap………

 

[Leafs87]

If this was a 21-29 deal 13 mill is fair. Since it’s 28-36 roughly, no thank you to 13 mill. He’ll likely regress through the majority and he didn’t give a discount last time. I’d let him walk before forking over 13+

 

[Dekes For Days]

The statement that there are better indicators of player quality than hardware like Hart Trophies is pretty special.

Of course there are better ways to evaluate player quality. Even if we cherry pick the Hart and ignore human/media biases and the opinion poll nature of it and the lack of expertise or standards for the people taking part, and assume it was perfect at indicating the best player in the league, it would still suck as a tool because it only gives limited ranking information about one player in one year. While the Hart may be good at identifying a great player in a season, it is useless for indicating anything about the quality of the other 99.9% of the league, or even the sustainable or relative quality of the winner.

 

[hockeywiz542]

Early Trading: Dreger - Habs trade opens door to other possibilities | TSN

TSN Hockey Insider Darren Dreger joins Gino Reda to discuss what other trade plans the Canadiens could have to bolster their roster, the Canucks' continued hunt for a defenceman, Kaapo Kakko's fresh start in Seattle and where things stand with contract negotiations between Mitch Marner and the...

www.tsn.ca

Reda: Listen, we were down at the owners meetings in Florida last week and Brendan Shanahan told us the Leafs are taking their time now in the Mitch Marner front. What's your take on what's actually going on behind the scenes? Because if they don't do something, Marner could walk as a UFA at the end of the season.

Dreger: Yeah, I mean, that's the threat, right? When you look at the big games like Marner, I think of Mikko Rantanen with the Colorado Avalanche. We don't have to talk about Igor Shesterkin and the Rangers anymore because that deal is now locked up. I think that Shanahan and company deserves some credit and how they've managed this process. So you know you've got Shanahan, of course, you've got the general manager, Brad Treliving, and by extension, head coach Craig Berube, who've done a real nice job of keeping the circus like atmosphere away from Mitch Marner. And then credit where credit is due. Mitch Marner vowed that his focus was on being better this year and helping his team win. He's been an incredible story for the Toronto Maple Leafs and the Toronto Maple Leafs, they've had some inconsistencies, but for the most part, they've kept their spot atop the division in that battle with the Florida Panthers. But as we flipped the calendar, Gino, into 2025, even though I know there's regular communication between the agent Darren Ferris and Brad Treliving, I would think that the Maple Leafs are going to need some direction, maybe definition on exactly what the Marner camp is looking for. But they're not there yet. It's just playing nice with one another in allowing Marner to remain focused on being the best that he can be, which ultimately turns into the Maple Leafs being a better team.

 

[LeafEgo]

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding you, but I think what you're saying is that Mitch would rather gamble that someone is going to pay him an extra 10M for that 8th year when he's 35. The @150 million the Leafs would have paid him lifetime to that point if he stayed in Toronto isn't going to be quite enough.

Again, I know what my answer is.

Just saying that to compare the value of a seven year deal to an eight year deal you have to add the potential value of an eighth year - discounted to some extent by uncertainty. Plus time value of money as the seven year +1 plan is effectively frontloaded.

If Leafs are offering 12.5x8, the value of a comparable seven year deal from another team isn't 14.3M and could be as low as 13M. (players don't seem to discount uncertainty much - probably driven by agencies focused on near term revenue growth and spreading risk across their portfolios).

Leaving Toronto may come with a slight decrease in side job income potential, but it's pretty hard to sell 'you can do extra work to make up the difference' as a positive

You don't need to sell it, it just needs to exist and it impacts Marners batna, and all parties are aware of that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You don't need to sell it, it just needs to exist and it impacts Marners batna, and all parties are aware of that.

You would have to sell it pretty hard. People don't really like it when their boss comes in and tries to pay them less than they earned in their job because they may have the potential to get a second job.

 

[Maple Leaf]

Need someone tampering with Rantanen so Marner's tenure can come to an end

 

[ToneDog]

Just saying that to compare the value of a seven year deal to an eight year deal you have to add the potential value of an eighth year - discounted to some extent by uncertainty. Plus time value of money as the seven year +1 plan is effectively frontloaded.

If Leafs are offering 12.5x8, the value of a comparable seven year deal from another team isn't 14.3M and could be as low as 13M. (players don't seem to discount uncertainty much - probably driven by agencies focused on near term revenue growth and spreading risk across their portfolios).


You don't need to sell it, it just needs to exist and it impacts Marners batna, and all parties are aware of that.

Who rejects $12.5x8=$100m for $13x7=$91m other than Matthews? I dare you Ferris.