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Sidney Crosby Top 5 player of all time

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Pittsburgh with a clear cut win with Lemieux a given and both Jagr and Crosby battling for consideration.

Personally Jagr deserves the nod.
 
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Personally I have a really tough time putting Crosby ahead of Ovy. I honestly don't think there is anything Crosby can do to reach top 5 all time.

Personally I have him and Ovy neck and neck, but I have Jagr ahead too, clearly a more talented player IMO. I also have some others that Crosby can't catch. I think he likely cracks the top 10 when it is all said and done.
 
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BehindTheTimes said:
Personally I have a really tough time putting Crosby ahead of Ovy. I honestly don't think there is anything Crosby can do to reach top 5 all time.

Personally I have him and Ovy neck and neck, but I have Jagr ahead too, clearly a more talented player IMO. I also have some others that Crosby can't catch. I think he likely cracks the top 10 when it is all said and done.
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How about Crosby outscoring Ovechkin and playing the lead role to two more cups
 
Hischier and Hughes said:
How about Crosby outscoring Ovechkin and playing the lead role to two more cups
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Ovy has over over 200 goals more than Crosby. Where as the point totals are nearly identical. I'm not a fan of PPG stats, you don't help your team in games you don't play.

Team success is one of the only remaining things in Crosby's favour, that and being Canadian.

8 time Richard winner, and likely the greatest goalscorer of all time
3 Harts
2 Lindsay's
1 Calder
1 Art Ross
1 Pearson
1 Smythe

vs

2 Harts
2 Art Ross
2 Lindsays
1 Pearson
2 Smythes
1 Leadership award.

It' a lot closer than many let on, but to me the 8 Richard's is what separates the two for me. Ridiculous.
 
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Hischier and Hughes said:
His stats say otherwise
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I can think of two centres better than him all time, I can think of one defenceman better than him all time, I can think of one goaltender better than him all time, and I can see one winger, maybe two, better than him all time.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Hasek, Howe, maybe Jagr.

I think there's arguments for more people like Beliveau, Roy, Morenz, Ovechkin, and Shore, which could push him out of Top 10 NHL all time, but I do think he will end his career Top 10 All Time. Top 5? Can't do. Crosby never dominated the game like the five I listed.
 
1,Gretzky
2.Orr
3.Lemieux
4.Howe
5.Hasek
6.Lidstrom
7.Potvin
8.Roy
9.Messier
10.Yzerman
11.Sakic
12.Brodeur
13.Brett Hull
14.Francis
15.Bourque
16.Dionne
17.Esposito
18.Oates
19. Robinson
20. Richard
21. Pronger
22. Ovechkin
23. Mcdavid
24. Probert
25. Dave Schultz
26. Crosby

Not even in my top 25.
 
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BehindTheTimes said:
Ovy has over over 200 goals more than Crosby. Where as the point totals are nearly identical. I'm not a fan of PPG stats, you don't help your team in games you don't play.

Team success is one of the only remaining things in Crosby's favour, that and being Canadian.

8 time Richard winner, and likely the greatest goalscorer of all time
3 Harts
2 Lindsay's
1 Calder
1 Art Ross
1 Pearson
1 Smythe

vs

2 Harts
2 Art Ross
2 Lindsays
1 Pearson
2 Smythes
1 Leadership award.

It' a lot closer than many let on, but to me the 8 Richard's is what separates the two for me. Ridiculous.
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Really don’t understand people who can’t look at point totals with context, you don’t think Lemieux was top 5 all time?
 
BehindTheTimes said:
Ovy has over over 200 goals more than Crosby. Where as the point totals are nearly identical. I'm not a fan of PPG stats, you don't help your team in games you don't play.

Team success is one of the only remaining things in Crosby's favour, that and being Canadian.

8 time Richard winner, and likely the greatest goalscorer of all time
3 Harts
2 Lindsay's
1 Calder
1 Art Ross
1 Pearson
1 Smythe

vs

2 Harts
2 Art Ross
2 Lindsays
1 Pearson
2 Smythes
1 Leadership award.

It' a lot closer than many let on, but to me the 8 Richard's is what separates the two for me. Ridiculous.
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Well while you may not put stock into PPG, Crosby is ranked 6th all-time in PPG in a much harder era to score (not now but his first half)
 
Captain Subban said:
I can think of two centres better than him all time, I can think of one defenceman better than him all time, I can think of one goaltender better than him all time, and I can see one winger, maybe two, better than him all time.

Gretzky, Lemieux, Orr, Hasek, Howe, maybe Jagr.

I think there's arguments for more people like Beliveau, Roy, Morenz, Ovechkin, and Shore, which could push him out of Top 10 NHL all time, but I do think he will end his career Top 10 All Time. Top 5? Can't do. Crosby never dominated the game like the five I listed.
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Youre not being serious mentioning names like Shore Roy and Morenz(?) in the same sentences as Crosby, right?
 
skinnyFAT91 said:
1,Gretzky
2.Orr
3.Lemieux
4.Howe
5.Hasek
6.Lidstrom
7.Potvin
8.Roy
9.Messier
10.Yzerman
11.Sakic
12.Brodeur
13.Brett Hull
14.Francis
15.Bourque
16.Dionne
17.Esposito
18.Oates
19. Robinson
20. Richard
21. Pronger
22. Ovechkin
23. Mcdavid
24. Probert
25. Dave Schultz
26. Crosby

Not even in my top 25.
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Then your top-25 is wrong. Really not even an opinion at that point, just simply and factually wrong
 
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It's really hard to compare old players like Howe, Hull, Richard, etc. to guys in the modern era. There are very few of us who saw them play and the difference in the game was night and day.

That being said, there are quite clearly 3 guys significantly ahead of him and I'd argue probably 4 with Howe. Having watched Jagr when I was younger, I've also never felt Crosby dominated quite like Jagr, so I would feel hesitant to place him in front.

Then we have a fair amount of more recent guys who represent quality arguments as to who was better...I'm thinking Messier, Hasek, Lidstrom, Ovi (I know this is a touchy subject - but to me, it is debatable).

In the end, I wouldn't put him in the top 5 and I can confidently say it's not 'without question.'

Crosby benefits from recency bias being the best player of the current generation, but there's a long history that preceded him and I'd be hard pressed to place him among the 5 best.
 
Captain Subban said:
So you might have been in kindergarten in 2006. I'm sorry. Not discussing with you.
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Keep bringing up age while you try to figure out even a single argument of how Shore is even in the same statosphere as Crosby

Shore being on the same level as Crosby, yeah and im from Mars
 
Hischier and Hughes said:
Then your top-25 is wrong. Really not even an opinion at that point, just simply and factually wrong
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Factually a lot of the players on my list played a big part in evolving the game to where it is today or were just flat entertaining to watch for me. My list is not that nonsense of if they played today so and so would be better or worse. 2nd of all I just gave an opinion which yeah, no idea what your think on the not really even an opinion business lmao.

Crosby never evolved the game and only had 2 seasons that I would consider dominate.

High IQ - Gretzky already done it.
Insane leg strength- Jagr already done it.
Captaining a team through multiple cups- Messier already done it
Insane passing ability- Oates already done it.
Whining to the refs- Mario already done it
Suffer through a lot of injuries and come back- Mario already done it
Trophies named after him - Zero
Back to Back cups - Yzerman already done it
Be boring, as in non flashy to watch- Gretzky already done it
Top 10 in points- Not Crosby, possible but injuries and time are not on his side
Top 10 in assists- Needs 270ish to crack top 10 and hes already 32
Top 10 in goals- Needs 200 goals, at 31, needs to have 5 40 goals seasons. Highly unlikely.

To even be considered top 5 all time, The guy needs to either change the game like Orr, become the first player to reach a milestone like Richard, or crack a top 10 list. Crosby has done absolutely zilch of that. Sure I can get on aboard him making top 25 easily on stats plus future hypothetical stats but Crosby is just flat out boring to watch imo.
 
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What Ovechkin has done in this day in age warrants the great 8 to be ahead of Sidney. Head to head in their absolute primes he even outscored Sidney in a 7 game series.

OV makes the top 10 all time.

Crosby falls short.
 
Not a fan of having him ahead of Jagr before he retires. I'm not overly knowledgeable on the league greats prior to the 90's crowd, but I feel like Crosby benefits from being a great player similar to players before him of the Sakic/Yzerman type, but no clear generational talent around him other than Ovechkin who is essentially the greatest goal scorer of all time. He's unquestionably one of the best in the league throughout his time played, but I just don't view his success to be over and above that of the Sakic's and Yzerman's of my time growing up. Wayne, Mario, and then Jagr basically dominated offensively for years and nobody was all that close to them. Crosby has not carried on that same level of dominance, but he has been consistently one of the best talents in the league. People saying he played in a lower scoring era really need to look at his first few seasons in the league again and at all the PP time he amassed.
 
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skinnyFAT91 said:
1,Gretzky
2.Orr
3.Lemieux
4.Howe
5.Hasek
6.Lidstrom
7.Potvin
8.Roy
9.Messier
10.Yzerman
11.Sakic
12.Brodeur
13.Brett Hull
14.Francis
15.Bourque
16.Dionne
17.Esposito
18.Oates
19. Robinson
20. Richard
21. Pronger
22. Ovechkin
23. Mcdavid
24. Probert
25. Dave Schultz
26. Crosby

Not even in my top 25.
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LOL at Lidstrom 6th and Bourque 15th when the latter was better than the former... :rolleyes: And WTF Dave Schultz before Crosby or even Dave Schultz at 25th and Probert at 24th??? :help::biglaugh:
 
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