Should Toronto retool starting next year?

[57 Years No Cup]

Are you blind?

Matthews’s first goal: nylander drop pass to Marner, Marner cross ice to Matthews who has half the net.

Matthews Second goal: nylander plays a pass he tips. I guess he gets credit but it was a nothing play that went in.

Blocks and hits are the most important stats? What about goals and assists? Matthews has 2A, he should lead by example, but instead he is NOT ENGAGED OR SACRIFICING. Watch the damn games, he skates at 50%, he’s afraid to shoot and always takes stupid point shots. He doesn’t drive to the net and plays the same style as 175 pounds Marner. Matthews is giving “hits”, he isn’t finishing his checks, he’s not squeezing people off the puck and he isn’t giving bone crushing hits. He’s not using his frame at all

it’s guys like you who don’t care about success as long as we have good regular season players. Oh my bad Matthews is struggling at that part too.

Matthews has been dogshit, marners been unplayable, Tavares is a boat anchor, Nylander plays 50% of the game like the rest of them, and 50% of the game how matthews should. He gets shit because he has been shit. If you didn’t live in this thread you’d see Marner is getting just as much hate

Stop deflecting off matthews, he is just as big of a problem as the others. Take the fake glasses off

Did you see the effort on floridas tying goal? Casually one handing the puck in and not boxing verhaeghe out at all. Yea that’s a superstar putting it all out there

Gotta use this again....

 

[Jmo89]

Thats generally considered a retool, player in/out to change culture without a significant dumping or acquiring of assets.

Yeah, you're right.

I guess I was thinking of it more as only keeping a couple core players and trading the rest for NHL ready prospects or young players rather than picks.

 

[Gary Nylund]

I'd run it around matthews-nylander, trade marner in a blockbuster for the best under 27 year old you can get and wait for McDavid

Oh and I love JT but age has caught up, we need that cap space to build around matthews nylander mcdavid new big 3.

I like it! Move Marner for the best package you can get and if that's just a bucket of picks, that's fine too. Culture change, it's time. Send everyone a message that play time is over!

If we're being honest, he's been the most disappointing of all.

No, that would be Marner. It's like you're in love with guy or something, I haven't read all the posts on this board today but I've read many and so far, you're the only one who doesn't agree that Marner deserves a lot more blame than Matthews.

Read this post below, maybe you'll learn something.

None of the 4 have done anything this series, just proved my point that he doesn't have a supporting cast..LOL
Game 2 in Tampa was Game 4, Mathews scored the 2nd and 3rd goal to make it close to get you the comeback...Marner and Nylander did not do anything other than be on the ice....Morgan Reilly with tying goal, and Kerfoot with OT winner. But without Mathews taking control and scoring 2 goals there is no comeback.

It's guys like you that woudl push a player like Mathews out of Toronto, i just pointed to 2 important stats in playoff hockey, BLOCKS and HITS, mathews sacrificing it all out there, while the other 3 sit back....he nearly has as much Blocks and Hits as the other 3 combined.

Why is he the biggest culprit, does he make as much as the other 3 combined? No they are all nearly the same salary, but i see mathews engaging, sacrificing, don;t see that from the other 3 and the NUMBERS DONT LIE!!!!

Mathews has 5 goals from G3-6, the other 3 have 1 goal combined, the lucky bounce in G6 by Tavares. So between Marner/Tavares/Nylander 1 goal in the last 7 games. Yes i see the supporting cast!!!!!!!!!!

Matthews also seemed like he's been playing hurt all year so there's that as well.

Here's a thought, whoever wins the lottery tonight, offer them both Matthews and Marner for that pick and get Bedard. Might seem crazy but when you realize that M&M will both be 26 when next season starts which means they're already at their peak and done dick in the playoffs so far and in another couple of years and they will be slowly declining, what are the odds of putting it all together with these guys? It's a lot to give up obviously and it's a gamble but if Bedard turns into the superstar that people think he will, 3 years from now this could like an absolute genius of a trade.

Maybe I'm over-reacting to last night's disaster but I dunno, makes a lot of sense to me right now. And let's be honest, last night was just so unbelievebly, so shockingly bad that I'm not even sure it's possible to over-react to that. Low point for the franchise over the last 50 years, yes even lower than losing to MTL. Time for big-time change.

Announce this trade Dubas and you will be my hero!

 

[Gallagbi]

If you are moving Marner, i really wonder if Calgary would consider something around Lindholm + Andersson.

Marner has history with Kadri, they have Weegar as a RD locked up long term and Marner does give them a face of the franchise with Gaudreau and Tkachuk gone

 

[Nineteen67]

The goal going into the year was to win a round and then try and rebuild/retool. Today they probably realise they have more work to do than they originally thought.

The core is not good enough, but my goodness the D is atrocious.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

 

[Nineteen67]

I'd run it around matthews-nylander, trade marner in a blockbuster for the best under 27 year old you can get and wait for McDavid

Oh and I love JT but age has caught up, we need that cap space to build around matthews nylander mcdavid new big 3.

Waiting for McDavid is your plan?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Just fire Keefe and bring in an actual goaltender, Hellebyuck in Winnipeg, or Markstrom in Calgary might actually be available, we know Gibson is on the Ducks.

To Keefe and Samsonov have not pulled their weight.

I don't care that Samsonov won a round he got carried by the offense.

8 games 6 times he's allowed 3+ goals he's been trash, the ass kissers will tell you it's not him but the FACTS say otherwise.

 

[Menzinger]

I'd run it around matthews-nylander, trade marner in a blockbuster for the best under 27 year old you can get and wait for McDavid

Oh and I love JT but age has caught up, we need that cap space to build around matthews nylander mcdavid new big 3.

IF the team runs with a retool over a blowup, I'd agree that Matthews-Nylander makes more sense from a cap POV as an offensive tandem than trying to keep Marner and Matthews. Marner also with the most remaining term likely seems as one of the most attractive trade chips

 

[Gallagbi]

Just fire Keefe and bring in an actual goaltender, Hellebyuck in Winnipeg, or Markstrom in Calgary might actually be available, we know Gibson is on the Ducks.

To Keefe and Samsonov have not pulled their weight.

I don't care that Samsonov won a round he got carried by the offense.

8 games 6 times he's allowed 3+ goals he's been trash, the ass kissers will tell you it's not him but the FACTS say otherwise.

Its not *just* Sammy but he hasnt been good

 

[613Leafer]

You'd think the opportunity for Matthews to become the best Leaf of all time would outweigh his fear of failing in this city.

Also if he doesn't want to sign here because he's too scared of failure in this city, then he probably doesn't have the mental makeup to really succeed here in high pressure situations (which has so far been the case).

 

[hoglund]

I think they need to retool, not blow up and start a long rebuild and missing the playoffs many years in a row. At least with this team they make the playoffs and with some retooling and possible trading 1 of their big names they can possibly go further in the playoffs.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Its not *just* Sammy but he hasnt been good

No it's not just Samsonov it's Keefe too.

 

[Gallagbi]

No it's not just Samsonov it's Keefe too.

You dont win many games scoring 2 goals and having your top players shutout.

Coaching may not be elevating us, but i dont see it hurting us. The mistakes have largely been self inflicted by the players

 

[HandshakeLineRespect]

The writing is on the wall. Matthews is gonzo. This relationship is going to sour after this latest humiliation.

 

[Superstar]

Only way to kill the curse is moving the team. I like the idea.

What would you name the new team? The GTA Voodoo Dolls?

 

[The Best Leafs Everr]

If you tell JT your taking the C from him and he’s no longer in their plans he may move, he’s only got 2 years left on his deal, why stay if you’re going to make it uncomfortable for him.

Then he can go, we tried giving him the chance but he is not the guy who can win. If they win 4 games in a row(which I highly doubt they win even 1), only then can he think of having a C for the next year. He wasn't needed in our plans.

 

[Lilou]

Lol one could hope.
There is nobody on the Leafs I would trade Brady Tkachuk for.
Ottawa is a young team trying to get into the playoffs and when you get there Tkachuk is the kind of player you want all day on the team.
Add new ownership with a possible Ryan Reynolds or Snoop around and money should be coming as well.

Would the Toronto market even tolerate a player like Tkachuk. Call me crazy but the media and fanbase would run him out of town if they had to sit through a season of either of the Tkachuk's antics. They're better off in small markets where they go unnoticed.

 

[Superstar]

Would the Toronto market even tolerate a player like Tkachuk. Call me crazy but the media and fanbase would run him out of town if they had to sit through a season of either of the Tkachuk's antics. They're better off in small markets where they go unnoticed.

I think he would be loved, like Tucker and Domi before him.

 

[Trapper]

Would the Toronto market even tolerate a player like Tkachuk. Call me crazy but the media and fanbase would run him out of town if they had to sit through a season of either of the Tkachuk's antics. They're better off in small markets where they go unnoticed.

Guys like Tucker and Domi seemed to do alright here.
Blue collar hard working, hard fighting would be loved. Remember the McLaren/Orr battles against Montreal. The team sucked but the battles were loved.
We haven’t had anyone with a strong pulse, that’s why you don’t know.

 

[MSZ]

Waiting for McDavid is your plan?

lol McJesus isn't coming to TO. He is smarter than this.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Marner for Brady Tkachuck + Tim Stutzle

Matthew’s for Arizona 2023 1st, Logan Cooley, Jack McBain, Karel Vejmelka, 2024 1st

Nylander for Konecny

Tavares and a 1st for Hayes

lol
Ottawa isn’t trading either of those players straight up for Marner. Like ZERO chance.

& I don’t want to speak for AZ fans but if they see this they’ll want to find you and straighten you out.

 

[thewave]

I like it! Move Marner for the best package you can get and if that's just a bucket of picks, that's fine too. Culture change, it's time. Send everyone a message that play time is over!


No, that would be Marner. It's like you're in love with guy or something, I haven't read all the posts on this board today but I've read many and so far, you're the only one who doesn't agree that Marner deserves a lot more blame than Matthews.

Read this post below, maybe you'll learn something.

Matthews also seemed like he's been playing hurt all year so there's that as well.

Here's a thought, whoever wins the lottery tonight, offer them both Matthews and Marner for that pick and get Bedard. Might seem crazy but when you realize that M&M will both be 26 when next season starts which means they're already at their peak and done dick in the playoffs so far and in another couple of years and they will be slowly declining, what are the odds of putting it all together with these guys? It's a lot to give up obviously and it's a gamble but if Bedard turns into the superstar that people think he will, 3 years from now this could like an absolute genius of a trade.

Maybe I'm over-reacting to last night's disaster but I dunno, makes a lot of sense to me right now. And let's be honest, last night was just so unbelievebly, so shockingly bad that I'm not even sure it's possible to over-react to that. Low point for the franchise over the last 50 years, yes even lower than losing to MTL. Time for big-time change.

Announce this trade Dubas and you will be my hero!

There is an issue. Well, close to 24 million issues with Marner and Matthews for Bedard lol

IF the team runs with a retool over a blowup, I'd agree that Matthews-Nylander makes more sense from a cap POV as an offensive tandem than trying to keep Marner and Matthews. Marner also with the most remaining term likely seems as one of the most attractive trade chips

I think it's more of a...

Who wants to stay and put it in writing?

Type of thing.

 

[Gary Nylund]

There is an issue. Well, close to 24 million issues with Marner and Matthews for Bedard lol



I think it's more of a...

Who wants to stay and put it writing?

Type of thing.

Yeah I know, it's more of a thought experiment than anything else. Or maybe just an outlet for my frustration, I'm just a really unhappy camper today. I want change, and it can't happen fast enough. I need a reason to watch the games next season dammit!

 

[Stephen]

Florida got called out by Keith Tkachuk. Winnipeg got called out by their own coach.

Toronto needed someone of status to come in and call out this pathetic group. But we're years too late on that. Nobody in this organization has any stones. From Dubas and Keefe right down to most of the players

Well, remember when Keefe called out Marner in Anaheim, benched him and he went and had a hissy fit? Some guys don't respond well to things.

I wonder if they have sports psychologists try to keep them even keeled and flat and they end up getting zombified. They seem like a group that gets too shaken up by things so they've been steered into this zombie, zen state.