Should Toronto retool starting next year?

[sxvnert]

Unless they make the finals, they have no choice. The grave error (besides signing Tavares) was signing Matthews to a five year contract with a NMC in his final season to boot.

 

[hockeywiz542]

 

[sunstersun]

We can't win with an 11 million anchor in Tavares. He's not moveable until at least next year.

 

[SCD]

Toronto has the most disproportionate use of cap space when comparing dollars spent on forwards and defense of any playoff team. They have already spent a lot of future draft capitol, so rebuild at this point would be tough.

 

[Thornbury]

Toronto has the most disproportionate use of cap space when comparing dollars spent on forwards and defense of any playoff team. They have already spent a lot of future draft capitol, so rebuild at this point would be tough.

What you're overlooking is that.moving on from Matthews and Marner;
- gives us some decent assets in return
- frees up $22 million in cap space

Time for a major reset.

 

[Shooter14]

Their stuck with that Taveras contract for 2 more seasons. That's basically what is hindering the Leafs to improve the team, the extra cap space.
What would they have left as a team if they traded one of the othere 3 which they won't!! Not much they would be a hell of alot worse. There time to retool would definitely be after the Taveras contract expires because of the no movement clause, he can't be traded. Leafs are screwed with very little cap space to work with. Currently they have 9 spots to fill with only 7.5 million to use. Good Luck bringing in playoff talent players

 

[AvroArrow]

Nylander needs to stay, I don't give a shit. He is a f***ing warrior, he's not scared and he shows up every night. I'm honestly torn between keeping Matthews or moving on from him. Whatever happens here, I don't think it will be for at least another month and half ish.

I just don't see this team winning with Marner. I've seen a large enough sample size from him in the playoffs now and I can't f***ing stand him. It's one thing to be soft and scared in the playoffs, it's another to just be invisible when your team needs you most. 11M supposed to be the best 2 way winger in the league, and that's how your perform ?

We need a massive culture shift, the kids can't run the locker room. These guys can't be this soft dancing around, partying after winning 1 series. They need a tough mean attitude if they wanna go far. I look at the most successful teams and look at their identity. Boston, Tampa, the LA Kings/Blackhawks of the 2010s, Washington, St. Louis etc. These were mean gritty f***ing teams that meant business. Everyone knew what their culture and identity was.

Nobody was going to intimidate Chara and the bruins, Hedman and the Lightning, Doughty/Richards etc. and so many more on LA, Keith/Seabrook/Toews etc of the hawks, ROR/Pietro/Parayko/Schenn of the blues. Crosby/Malkin are just different animals.

Point being the culture and mindset of this team is not one of a championship caliber. That is the main thing that we need to re-tool. Problem is I don't see how we can do that without a massive change in personnel. We need a true strong/tough leader that competes harder than everyone that will hold guys accountable and won't stand for this soft shit.

 

[sunstersun]

Nylander needs to stay, I don't give a shit. He is a f***ing warrior, he's not scared and he shows up every night. I'm honestly torn between keeping Matthews or moving on from him. Whatever happens here, I don't think it will be for at least another month and half ish.

I just don't see this team winning with Marner. I've seen a large enough sample size from him in the playoffs now and I can't f***ing stand him. It's one thing to be soft and scared in the playoffs, it's another to just be invisible when your team needs you most. 11M supposed to be the best 2 way winger in the league, and that's how your perform ?

We need a massive culture shift, the kids can't run the locker room. These guys can't be this soft dancing around, partying after winning 1 series. They need a tough mean attitude if they wanna go far. I look at the most successful teams and look at their identity. Boston, Tampa, the LA Kings/Blackhawks of the 2010s, Washington, St. Louis etc. These were mean gritty f***ing teams that meant business. Everyone knew what their culture and identity was.

Nobody was going to intimidate Chara and the bruins, Hedman and the Lightning, Doughty/Richards etc. and so many more on LA, Keith/Seabrook/Toews etc of the hawks, ROR/Pietro/Parayko/Schenn of the blues. Crosby/Malkin are just different animals.

Point being the culture and mindset of this team is not one of a championship caliber. That is the main thing that we need to re-tool. Problem is I don't see how we can do that without a massive change in personnel. We need a true strong/tough leader that competes harder than everyone that will hold guys accountable and won't stand for this soft shit.

mitch marner also sucks at defence in the playoffs. turnover after turnover. failed clear after failed clear.

 

[LeafGrief]

Definitely a retool. That locker room needs a huge shakeup and these players need to be held accountable for continually failing to deliver. Keefe was right last night when he said that this team has the talent to win a cup and that this is a missed opportunity, but it's been like that for years now. A new coach is just a different air freshener in the car, it's time to move a few core pieces to make this work.

Trade Marner and rebalance the cap structure a bit. He's just not capable of handling the pressure in the Toronto market and is spoiled in the absolute worst Millenial/Zoomer kind of way. The kind of guy who's never been told no in his life and has an outrageous helicopter parent who will go to war at any "disrespect" for his kid. He's talented enough that he'll figure it out someday, but it's not going to be here. Some of that money will go to a forward who plays hard and can put up 60% of his points, some of that money will go towards a defenseman who can actually make an outlet pass when faced with a forecheck.

Seriously, our defense simply could not handle Florida's forecheck at all, we never recovered from losing Muzzin, that's the biggest objective of this retool.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Question:

Since Tavares is not going anywhere due to his difficult contract, can TOR survive with him as your number 1 center?

Both Nylander and Matthews could price themselves off the team sooner than we think.

I'm not saying Tavares is good. I'm not saying Matthews and Nylander are bad. I'm not saying that Marner is the answer.

I'm just saying that a potential re-tool could involve some tough decisions: Nylander/Matthews and eventually Marner.

Nylander could demand a lot of money. Toronto might want to pay that. Then Toronto has to move on from Matthews.

No matter how you shuffle and re-tool, Tavares is likely here in TOR until he retires (contract expiry).

Can Toronto get a mid-level Center as your number 2, Tavares as your number 1, and be competitive?

 

[justashadowof]

The template for the type of major move to make is what Florida did, not what Calgary did. Calgary's moves were panic about saving their contender status. Florida's moves were about targeting talent to move past being a playoff also-ran. While I believe Florida isn't actually all that good, it did work with a conference final berth.

Whoever is in charge of this Leafs' retool needs to identify a high end talent or two to target and use their high value assets to get those targets.

IMO that player is a defense stud or a top tier goalie. We don't know who's available or isn't available for whatever reason. Needless to say that some stud like Rasmus Dahlin (eligible for an extension this summer) were available you'd have to kick tires.


And if there turns out to be no such talent on the market to target then you go to Plan B and sell off some of the high value assets, bank the return assets in the short term until that high value target emerges.

 

[horner]

Iam not to sure what is going to happen in the summer but I do know we need size and toughness in the bottom six.
We have nobody that will step up only Schenn nobody in the forward group.
I was shocked that know one did anything to Bennett or Tkachuk for there manhandling of knies

Trade
Marner love him but we need to build a team
If we need to retain 2 mil to get more so be it
1st (2023) + 1 (2024) + top prospect
Brodie he has lost a step
Lilly
Jamcrok

Matt Murray or Buyout
Muzzin retire or LTIR


I would sign
Hathaway 1.5 mil
Schenn 1.5 mil perfect partner for Mogan
ORielly 5.5 mil get him healthy
Accuri 1.3 mil
killorn 4.5 mil TB cant afford him
Bertuzzi 5 mil

Trade for
Trent Fredick RFA sign him for 2 mil
Boston can't afford him

We need a couple of dman with snarl and size and defensively responsible
Sign
Carson Soucy 2.5 mil big and mean
Gudas 2.5 mil

Gudas say what you want about him, he is mean and trys to hurt people

We need to build a team for the playoffs

 

[Sasha Orlov]

What’s the real solution here?

It seems pretty clear to me that Morgan Rielly needs to be the captain of this team after seeing his play this playoff season

ROR obviously made a big impact leadership wise as well, that was evident in round 1

Seems to be the same tired story of key guys not contributing in crunch time, but how do you give them that extra kick? Do they just not have it?

 

[BertCorbeau]

Honestly they should start putting themselves in a position to make an Uber aggressive push for McDavid when he hits UGA and retool around that. Make moves now to build the prospect pool with young ELC talent and leave cap space to fill critical places on the roster.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Honestly they should start putting themselves in a position to make an Uber aggressive push for McDavid when he hits UGA and retool around that. Make moves now to build the prospect pool with young ELC talent and leave cap space to fill critical places on the roster.

why would he leave? like truthfully, i'm not going to play the "Wants to play at home" card. unless edmonton equally doesn't do anything for the next few years. he might as well stay where he is.

 

[BertCorbeau]

why would he leave? like truthfully, i'm not going to play the "Wants to play at home" card. unless edmonton equally doesn't do anything for the next few years. he might as well stay where he is.

He’s seemed visibly frustrated in the past by the lack of success .. mind you the last two seasons may have changed his tune.

Really my main thing is that instead of making haste moves to retool the team, take a slower approach and structure the cap of the team accordingly to give yourself a chance to sign him.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nylander needs to stay, I don't give a shit. He is a f***ing warrior, he's not scared and he shows up every night. I'm honestly torn between keeping Matthews or moving on from him. Whatever happens here, I don't think it will be for at least another month and half ish.

I just don't see this team winning with Marner. I've seen a large enough sample size from him in the playoffs now and I can't f***ing stand him. It's one thing to be soft and scared in the playoffs, it's another to just be invisible when your team needs you most. 11M supposed to be the best 2 way winger in the league, and that's how your perform ?

We need a massive culture shift, the kids can't run the locker room. These guys can't be this soft dancing around, partying after winning 1 series. They need a tough mean attitude if they wanna go far. I look at the most successful teams and look at their identity. Boston, Tampa, the LA Kings/Blackhawks of the 2010s, Washington, St. Louis etc. These were mean gritty f***ing teams that meant business. Everyone knew what their culture and identity was.

Nobody was going to intimidate Chara and the bruins, Hedman and the Lightning, Doughty/Richards etc. and so many more on LA, Keith/Seabrook/Toews etc of the hawks, ROR/Pietro/Parayko/Schenn of the blues. Crosby/Malkin are just different animals.

Point being the culture and mindset of this team is not one of a championship caliber. That is the main thing that we need to re-tool. Problem is I don't see how we can do that without a massive change in personnel. We need a true strong/tough leader that competes harder than everyone that will hold guys accountable and won't stand for this soft shit.

A lot of unpleasant truths here. What's the identity of this team? The cynical answer would probably be something like Marner sounding like a moron talking to the media after being eliminated from the playoffs. A more realistic answer might be that this team simply does not have an identity.

Can a team win in the playoffs without having an identity? Probably not.

why would he leave? like truthfully, i'm not going to play the "Wants to play at home" card. unless edmonton equally doesn't do anything for the next few years. he might as well stay where he is.

EDM not doing anything is what seems to always happen.

Why would he leave is only part of the question, another part is why would he want to come to Toronto and that's easy - lead this team to a cup and he'll be immortalized. And maybe that's why he wants to leave - can't come to Toronto without leaving Edmonton first.

 

[AvroArrow]

Honestly they should start putting themselves in a position to make an Uber aggressive push for McDavid when he hits UGA and retool around that. Make moves now to build the prospect pool with young ELC talent and leave cap space to fill critical places on the roster.

It would be a pretty massive gamble, counting on McDavid to sign here.

 

[PromisedLand]

as long as Tavares's contract is on the books Leafs should not look to go for the cup anymore. That's 11 AAV that is a complete WASTE IMO. They should use this period wisely and retool/rebuild.

The window is closed for the next 2 to 3 years IMO, Leafs gotta have a foresight and do the right thing.

Bring in a new GM and let him get this roster ready to compete within 3 to 4 years time. For now you don't throw away any assets or such for any "quick" fixes. It should be a long term approach.

Also gotta trade Marner for sure; and if Matthews ain't re-signing he gotta be gone too. Can't have two guys walking as UFAs when for 5 years leafs have spend assets like crazy to just win freakin' one round.

Also, if matthews is looking anything north of 12 AAV even if he wants to sign you trade him. Thats too much cap invested in the player that refuses to show up in the playoffs

 

[Gary Nylund]

It would be a pretty massive gamble, counting on McDavid to sign here.

Can't count on it of course, but preparing for the possibility doesn't seem like a bad idea.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Can't count on it of course, but preparing for the possibility doesn't seem like a bad idea.

Nothing to prepare for unless he clearly says he won't re-sign there, and even then Edmonton would trade him to one of his preferred destinations rather than letting him get to free agency.

 

[DuklaNation]

Your best time to win with this core was right now. Going forward, new extensions, injuries, declines are inevitably going to happen. How many more good years? 2.

You tear this apart right now.

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nothing to prepare for unless he clearly says he won't re-sign there, and even then Edmonton would trade him to one of his preferred destinations rather than letting him get to free agency.

Of course but if he does want out, I think there's a good chance that Toronto will be his preferred destination.

Your best time to win with this core was right now. Going forward, new extensions, injuries, declines are inevitably going to happen. How many more good years? 2.

You tear this apart right now.

That makes a ton of sense, but I have feeling ownership won't allow it.