Should the Leafs make front office changes?

[hullsy47]

New President, New GM and then let the new GM pick the coach and decide the new vision for the future.

Clean front office. Their philosophy and mindset is of: 1) loser attitude, 2) easily satisfied, 3) self-congratulatory 4) incompetent, 5) victim personality 6) absolutely ZERO foresight

Need new vision and new voice that is competent and has foresight.

I agree .dubas and Keefe have done nothing special

Plus dubas would never trade 1 of his core even if it meant getting 2 potential all stars back for marner
That's what worries the fan base awarding failure

 

[WTFMAN99]

Shanahan
Keefe
Dubas

I don't even get how this is a debate.

Shanahan here from the start.
Dubas said he was willing to gamble his career on the big 4, so far, 4 1st round losses
Keefe, no playoff wins.

I would absolutely move on.

Raptors fired a coach of the year because they wanted more. People in here get way too attached to the faces and don't think about the results.

 

[Racer88]

Can't believe we're discussing dismantling a 115 point team.

It’s a 6 times in a row first round loser team. Every team strives to win the cup. Unless major changes are made it will become 7 years. Shanny and Dubas gambled on an unconventional build style and it has been a complete failure as far as the ultimate objective

 

[Racer88]

I havnt heard anything about a Dubas/Shanny press conference yet, I wonder if it’s because there are high level discussions going on to decide if either of them are going to be here next year

 

[WTFMAN99]

I havnt heard anything about a Dubas/Shanny press conference yet, I wonder if it’s because there are high level discussions going on to decide if either of them are going to be here next year

It's a valid discussion. You can't run this crap back again.

Regular season isn't a big deal but why would I trust Dubas to correct the mistakes when he's assembled the team that's failed 4 seasons in a row to win a round?

 

[Racer88]

It's a valid discussion. You can't run this crap back again.

Regular season isn't a big deal but why would I trust Dubas to correct the mistakes when he's assembled the team that's failed 4 seasons in a row to win a round?

Absolutely. Wishfully thinking that 1 more year will magically fix this is crazy.
the argument could be made that Dubas actually assembled the best seconday players that he could considering what little money he had to work with. We all know the reason he had so little is the 11 million he spent on 3 similar forwards.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Absolutely. Wishfully thinking that 1 more year will magically fix this is crazy.
the argument could be made that Dubas actually assembled the best seconday players that he could considering what little money he had to work with. We all know the reason he had so little is the 11 million he spent on 3 similar forwards.

My 2 cents is I would replace JT because I don't think you need an 11M 2C but I don't think they actually do it, at least Dubas won't if he's brought back, for some reason. He isn't mean enough to force it.

I think 88 is likely out though.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I can accept that we right there with the SC champs, but what is the missing piece? Get me someone who can find it. If it’s Dubas, that’s ok, if he can’t or doesn’t want to then get someone in here who does know.

 

[LeafGrief]

Don't care if we keep Keefe or not. Dubas is fantastic and should stay. In four days last July he added Bunting, Kampf, and Knies to the org. That's some next level shit right there, especially with the deals he signed Bunting+Kampf to. The league is full of bad GM's and there's a million worse ones looking to get their nose in the door. Dubas isn't perfect but no GM is, so I'd rather stick with the talented youngster who's been getting better and better at the job every year he's been on it.

 

[justashadowof]

It all starts with a new president who is an actual hockey management guy with GM experience not some connected retired hockey bro who looks handsome in a suit. The current president's mediocrity was masked by unbelievable luck in 3 straight drafts.

A new president eventually means new lower management. But I guess that means Dubas gets his ultimatum season to win with whatever piecemeal goaltending he can cobble together in the summer.

 

[Clark4Ever]

We just set a franchise record for points in the regular season. Yes, we lost in 7 games in round 1 again, this time to the back to back champs as a result of some brutal officiating in both elimination games.

I would leave the front office and coaching staff intact and give them one more kick at the can.

 

[JT AM da real deal]

It always starts at top .. da board needs to make da necessary change

 

[Al14]

Leafs want a cup, Trotz is a better coach than Keefe and can teach better defensive responsibility (which is what the team needs). And he's won a cup / knows what it's like to make playoff runs. Seems like an obvious move

Babcock also seemed like the obvious move too. That didn't end well at all !!!

 

[rocketman588]

With Pens choking a 3-1 lead, I know Sid is hurt. Maybe it is time to get make the Kawhi style trade.
Change the coach to Trotz, trade for Sid(lets Pens make a pick between JT, Marner or Willie plus) and ask Sid to convince MAF to play for league minimum.

Yes Sid who has a NTC and grew up a Habs fan and MAF who is french Canadian

Why would MAF play for league min? We think everyone is going to come here for a discount, we gave Simmonds a two year deal dude

 

[Al14]

Can't believe we're discussing dismantling a 115 point team.

You could win every single regular season game, and that still means jack shit if you bow out in the 1st round !!!

 

[capfit9]

Isn't Kyle's contract up at the end of this season ?

Babcock also seemed like the obvious move too. That didn't end well at all !!!

and they made the decision to change that kinda like this pickle

 

[Racer88]

My 2 cents is I would replace JT because I don't think you need an 11M 2C but I don't think they actually do it, at least Dubas won't if he's brought back, for some reason. He isn't mean enough to force it.

I think 88 is likely out though.

I don’t think they can move JT because of his contract but if they could I would do it today

 

[Cap'n Flavour]

Don't care if we keep Keefe or not. Dubas is fantastic and should stay. In four days last July he added Bunting, Kampf, and Knies to the org. That's some next level shit right there, especially with the deals he signed Bunting+Kampf to. The league is full of bad GM's and there's a million worse ones looking to get their nose in the door. Dubas isn't perfect but no GM is, so I'd rather stick with the talented youngster who's been getting better and better at the job every year he's been on it.

He also signed Mrazek, set up the rest of the depth players who did approximately jack squat in the playoffs or actively hurt the team (Kerfoot, Mikheyev, Engvall, Kase, Simmonds, Clifford), and gave Tavares, Muzzin and Brodie their deals, all of which are looking like mistakes in hindsight if not at the time.

Yes, there are worse GMs. There are better ones too. I'm not going to rehash why Dubas has to dumpster dive in UFA every year to fill in depth roles, we all know that. All I'll say is that his loyalty to Keefe is a liability at this point. Dubas had better commit to significantly improving the roster and coaching staff in the offseason or he can take a hike.

 

[Trapper]

no, it's about making that 115 points mean something

Agreed.
Dismantle????
I think we are talking about Assembling a team that can go deep in the playoffs.
If Dubas can’t do it one more time…bye.
Who in this board would trade 15 regular season points to be in the 2nd round today?

 

[Trapper]

This is why I kind want to see Florida sweep Tampa. The narrative in the media is “oh they lost to the back to back champs in game 7”

But if Florida goes out and sweeps Tampa it would erase that narrative and show we weren’t close to anything, and hopefully Dubas and Keefe are immediately fired.

It’s a complete long shot but I’ll take anything to move on from Dubas and Keefe and their loser “handshake respect” mentality.

This is Toronto. More excuses than pills.
If Florida beats Tampa soundly it will be oh Point was hurt, we softened them up, they were tired from playing us, etc.
It all means nothing in the grand scheme of this team.

 

[v4karuna]

Can't believe we're discussing dismantling a 115 point team.

I would rather be a wildcard team that can win a round in the playoffs.

Matthews 60 goals and Leafs season high 115 points means NOTHING to me.

If it were up to me, I would let go of Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe, and trade Nylander and Tavares (assuming he waives).

 

[LeafGrief]

Delete. Not interested in participating further.

 

[Gabriel426]

Yes Sid who has a NTC and grew up a Habs fan and MAF who is french Canadian

Why would MAF play for league min? We think everyone is going to come here for a discount, we gave Simmonds a two year deal dude

Dude, that was a joke. I doubt Sid will leave the Pens

 

[Sniper99]

Can't believe we're discussing dismantling a 115 point team.

Woohoo regular season success. Whoopdee doo. Gets a little old when you havent seen the 2nd round or better in what will be 19 years. Cant win game 7's on the road or at home.

 

[Blanche Blanche]

I understand calling for changes to the GM and coach but I really want to give them one more year to try to figure it out. The team finished with 115 points and had the top PP and one of the top PK units. They are doing some things right.

Let's face it, this team had won the series if Kerfoot doesn't double down on stupidity. If they had won the series I honestly believe we would have gone to the Finals. There would have been no other Vasi out there to steal a game 7 from us.

They do have to make tweaks to the lineup. Bring in players who know what playing in the playoffs requires. Miky and Engvall don't know.

I know what you mean. But at some point the fuse for not getting it done has been burnt.

Teams fine, but a new coach or GM is needed. I’d even trade nylander for equal value.

Edmonton and Calgary ended up making it to rd 2.

Our excuse book for this group is done.

Changes NOW

Shanahan
Keefe
Dubas

I don't even get how this is a debate.

Shanahan here from the start.
Dubas said he was willing to gamble his career on the big 4, so far, 4 1st round losses
Keefe, no playoff wins.

I would absolutely move on.

Raptors fired a coach of the year because they wanted more. People in here get way too attached to the faces and don't think about the results.

Exactly. We are close. We need a huge MOVE.

New office or I can’t wait for empty arena like when the jays started to lose fans.

Look at the raps now, after a real champ run.