Should the Leafs make front office changes?

[A1LeafNation]

What about a team that can't win a playoff/in series..... can you believe we're discussing changes to them?

Changes yes, but not regime changes.

You don't let inmates run the asylum. Just because of Matthews you don't extend a GM that has no foresight.

As far as I can see Dubas played his cards to the T; he made sure to give Matthews the 5 year term and inflated AAV, just so that Dubas' renewal is pressured on to MLSE. Well played dubas for his own employment and benefit. For sure

This by no means entitles Dubas to an extension. If Matthews wants to stay here he will stay here regardless of who the GM is. Under Dubas Leafs haven't achieved any playoff success anyway.

Plenty of players in the league who stay with the team eventhough GMs change, there is no reason why this can't be true with the Leafs either. If Matthews plays the dubas card because Matthews again wants to take Leafs to the shed with the money then good luck to Matthews in another club.

Thanks but no thanks

We are looking to win a cup and have playoff success.

Most true Leafs fans want to see the name Toronto Maple Leafs on the cup; whther underneath Toronto Maple Leafs it says Matthews or someone else is irrelevant. I love Matthews but not more than the Leafs. If he wants to be a contributing member of this franchise to the cup he will sign regardless of who the GM is

Any negotiation should be both parties working towards one goal. I think by now the GM and players have established that.

 

[Nylanderthal]

I think with a couple of good candidates recently let go of their jobs, an evaluation of Keefe is definitely reasonable. Largely the pieces assembled have been viewed as good enough, so management has done its job imo it’s on the coach and the players, the guys in the room day in day out. Something has to give

 

[PromisedLand]

Any negotiation should be both parties working towards one goal. I think by now the GM and players have established that.

The goal regardless of where you play is to "Win". How to go about winning is where GMs vision and foresight comes in to play.

A new GM will have the same relationship with Matthews.

Crosby won cups with two different coaches/GMs. Matthews can too.

Dubas is not critical for Leafs' success or for that matter Matthews re-signging. Dubas does not pay matthews from his own pocket, it is MLSE money. Matthews' loyalty should be to the logo and relationship with MLSE.

 

[NinjaKick]

I'm still shellshocked... I have to rewatch the series and reanalyze

 

[ShaneFalco]

So if this is Dubas's last year of his contract - lame duck gm or extend him? Extending him is just the kind of thing they'd do. Rewards with no results. Congrats on being regular season top 5

 

[Dough72]

Leafs are instilling a culture of losing. Losing is tolerated and accepted. That's why Shanahan, Dubas and Keefe must be tossed.

New front office Please!

yyyyyuup. It's obvious none of them has a clue how to build a playoff team or system probably because none of them has actually done it before. No more on-the-job training it's time to hire grownups.

 

[rocketman588]

The knights canned deboer after one bad year full of injuries. Isles after a weird year.

And we're like yeah let's not resign Campbell as our big shake up

How can we literally make 0 changes

 

[A1LeafNation]

The knights canned deboer after one bad year full of injuries. Isles after a weird year.

And we're like yeah let's not resign Campbell as our big shake up

How can we literally make 0 changes

I don't think Vegas and NYI are organizations we should be mirroring ourselves after lol.

 

[rocketman588]

I don't think Vegas and NYI are organizations we should be mirroring ourselves after lol.

One has made a cup final and a conference finals the other two conference finals including taking a better version of Tampa to 7 games.

Say what you want about the knights but they're not afraid to do what it takes to get it done

 

[Dough72]

I don't think Vegas and NYI are organizations we should be mirroring ourselves after lol.

why not? Lou's Islanders came within 1 win of the Stanley Cup finals. Twice. And Vegas actually did make it. Shanahan and Dubas can only dream about success like that.

 

[A1LeafNation]

One has made a cup final and a conference finals the other two conference finals including taking a better version of Tampa to 7 games.

Say what you want about the knights but they're not afraid to do what it takes to get it done

why not? Lou's Islanders came within 1 win of the Stanley Cup finals. Twice. And Vegas actually did make it. Shanahan and Dubas can only dream about success like that.

So what you are saying is we shouldnt have spent time and assets reversing Lous moves like Marleau and Zaitsev and Matt Martin...Those were great moves by him?

 

[PromisedLand]

So if this is Dubas's last year of his contract - lame duck gm or extend him? Extending him is just the kind of thing they'd do. Rewards with no results. Congrats on being regular season top 5

Leiweke wouldn't have shown confidence thats for sure. I am not sure about Friisdahl. Shanahan signed a six-year extension with the club through to the 2024-25 season.

this means Shanahan probably stays (unless fired) for three more seasons: 2022-2023; 2023-2024 and 2024-2025. The question is does Friisdahl has confidence in Shanahan and if Shanahan wises up and does not extend Dubas.

I wonder if media grills Shanahan tomorrow about this very thing. Shanahan talked about "killer instinct" which again did not show up. Leafs had 2 chances to close out the series and didn't.

Leafs are:

• 0-6 with Brendan Shanahan as President
• 0-4 with Kyle Dubas as General Manager
• 0-3 with Sheldon Keefe as Head Coach

Here is Shanny after the buzzer in Game 7



Question is does Shanny double down on Dubas or go a different route? Shanny has 3 more years till his contract runs out assuming he is not fired before then

 

[yubbers]

Shanny and Dubas should both be gone. Shanny handed Dubas a golden goose and he managed to perpetually fail. We literally just ate up prime AM years letting a rookie GM learn the gig. Then he hires his rookie buddy coach. For MLSE. Not some cash strapped team that had to get creative

Shanny rolled the dice so hard with Dubas and it has failed. Shanny needs to be held accountable for that decision.

 

[rocketman588]

So what you are saying is we shouldnt have spent time and assets reversing Lous moves like Marleau and Zaitsev and Matt Martin...Those were great moves by him?

We didn't need to and we would have gotten a great pick in that draft if dubas didn't feel the need to justify his hiring by getting Tavares.

He's wasted many more assets then what it took to get rid of those deals anyways.

We traded a 1st a 3rd a 4th and a 7th to lose to the habs

 

[PromisedLand]

"Run it back" ?

Are you freakin' serious? Really?

 

[67leafs]

I think the scouts and the goalie coach should be under a microscope.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

The "Shanaplan" is about to head into its 8th year. A project that was designed to create a sustainable, consistent contender every year, has failed.

I see a lot of people excusing the Leafs defeat because it was against a "really good" Tampa team, yet this deep into the project, the Leafs should also be a "really good" team.

You could argue changes could be at all levels - on the ice, behind the bench, in the press box, and at the board level.

It should all be on the table. Absolutely 0 reason to be married to anyone not named Auston Matthews at this stage

Problem is that Shanny seems to think this is the mid 90's Detroit team that just couldn't figure it out and somehow did. He was one of the reasons they figured it out and yet he eschews that type of player for some reason. He is enamored with skill over everything and not noting that Detroit had all the skill in the world but lacked grit and did not win until they got that part right. I am sorry but I don't consider getting pummeled by another team gritty. We never dish it out...we just take it and that attitude permeates the whole franchise.

 

[Divine]

I think the scouts and the goalie coach should be under a microscope.

PP coach also. It's too predictable, it's always pass off to Marner who will refuse to shoot in the playoffs and then try to thread it to Matthews.

Then, the zone entry is always go back to the trailer no matter what. Open lane or not, trailer first.

 

[egd27]

Changes yes, but not regime changes.

What do you consider a "regime change"?

The coach?
The GM?
The Pres?
The first 2?
All 3?

 

[Clark4Ever]

The knights canned deboer after one bad year full of injuries. Isles after a weird year.

And we're like yeah let's not resign Campbell as our big shake up

How can we literally make 0 changes

In fairness, if the Leafs had missed the playoffs like the Knights and the Isles, I don't think there's any doubt that the entire front office and coaching staff would have been let go as well.

 

[rocketman588]

In fairness, if the Leafs had missed the playoffs like the Knights and the Isles, I don't think there's any doubt that the entire front office and coaching staff would have been let go as well.

If we had a bunch of injuries the year after making the conference final you can bet the same people here that are excusing the first round losses would be making excuses to not make changes

 

[Clark4Ever]

If we had a bunch of injuries the year after making the conference final you can bet the same people here that are excusing the first round losses would be making excuses to not make changes

It's a complex situation. If a decision is to be made based strictly on the results in the playoffs the last few years, then it would appear that cleaning house is the only solution.

Then again, I find it it difficult to justify that decision based on on the franchise record setting season we just had and the team's performance in the playoffs against the back to back champions.

This time it felt different to me. Our best players showed up. We were the better team overall, including game 7. If the officiating was competent, especially in games 6 and 7, I think we would have advanced.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Everyone is making this more complicated than it is. Yes 6 years of 1st round exits is shameful and yes the goal is to win, but changing what has already been put together is a step backwards. Can we move forward with this framework, I think yes. Will it be hard changes/conversations to make, again yes.

So if I were to look at this team and dissect the key issues on the team, it comes down to two things you look at changing.

1. Goaltending: Get another goalie similar Campbell and dump Mrazek. Perhaps Mrazek is that goalie, who knows. But I'm trying to resign Campbell and go with two guys instead of putting my eggs in one guy who may or may not be injured come playoff time.

2. Tavares: turn his cap hit into two top 6 forwards. We were sold that this Leafs offense was going to come at you in waves, but what's happened is that the second line has conformed to a typical yet expensive second line. At 23.5m, that is a typical 1st line cost imo. 22m for this 2nd line is over priced and overrated in the NHL. The problem is Tavares no matter how you slice it. Dubas fkd that up and it needs to be addressed. The team will be stretched thin as long as we have a 1st and 2nd line instead of two 1st lines.

So as bad or unrealistic as it seems, the answer is most likely a framework of a team similar to this year's group...

Bunting Matthews Marner
________ _________ Nylander
Mikheyev Kerfoot Kase
Engvall Kampf Blackwell
Spezza

Rielly Brodie
Muzzin Holl
Giordano Liljegren
Sandin

_______
Campbell

 

[Jmo89]

why not? Lou's Islanders came within 1 win of the Stanley Cup finals. Twice. And Vegas actually did make it. Shanahan and Dubas can only dream about success like that.

But the Leafs look better on paper, which is good enough (or better) for some to praise the mediocrity. To be fair, the Leafs have lost so much for so long I don't think alot of fans have expectations beyond looking good on paper. They haven't gotten to experience a winning team.

TThe only reason I possibly keep Dubas is because he's built the team and has possibly learned from his mistakes. I'm sick of wasting years of cores prime (and yes they need to be better too.)

To bring in an inexperienced coach with this team and let him learn on the job is beyond idiotic. What waste of 3 seasons.

At minimum they need a real coach and real goalie.

Keefe's mentality about the split road games and then what he said after game 7 shows that he's not a coach whose ready to lead a team to a championship. To be honest I'm not sure I've heard more pathetic sound bites from a coach.

 

[rumman]

I don't think Vegas and NYI are organizations we should be mirroring ourselves after lol.

Yeah, your right. They usually go deep in the playoffs…….