Should the Flyers Rebuild?

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Simmonds is the wildcard, and we wont know what the deal is until 2018. If he can be retained at a reasonable number (under $6M) for a reasonable term (4 years), then I think we resign him. More term or more money required, then he will need to be traded. Cant have him into his 35+ y/o seasons, nor can we go with too much money, especially with the G & Jake contracts in place.

But I just can't see him signing a 4-year deal, and I don't think he should - he would be getting bad advice from his agent to do so. It's his last big contract and he should be looking to set himself up with the longest deal possible. If the best situation for him is Philadelphia - and it probably is - he could play with the dollar amounts some to make it work with our cap and dissuade Hexy from needing to move him (or thinking he needs to), but I think he will absolutely ask for 6 years. I wouldn't blame him for a second - that's what he should be asking for - but I also would move him before we got to that point. I've traded him on these boards about 100 times, but I'd still be happy if he stayed and signed, because he rules, obviously.

 

[Jtown]

There's no point in arguing with you about Couturier so I will just say he's already playing almost as much at ES as Giroux (20s less/game). The labels are antiquated. If you think either sticks in the middle, that's where they should be unless it moves them off of the 4th line.

coots playing so much is one of the reasons we can't score. Name a team that won't have their 2nd line center on the pp and that is what is going to happen this next year.

on a stanley cup winning team we want coots as our 3rd line center.

 

[Curufinwe]

As expected, Jtown's projected lineup is not even vaguely realistic.

 

[duffy9748]

On my phone but McKenzie had some interesting comments regarding Giroux being in trade rumors this weekend.

@nicholsonhockey

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

It's reasonable to expect one of Frost and Rubtsov to stick in the middle.

Before you get to Bardreau, Leier, or Goulbourne, I would include NAK, Allison, Laczynski, and Bunnaman in whatever order you prefer. Then there's Laberge, which is a bit of a difficult decision.

Vorobyov is also very much in that mix.

 

[Jtown]

That's the best lineup you could come up with? You're missing 3 forwards I have in my top 10. Plus we have 2 1sts next year.

i would say that is a conservative forecast. Personally i would feel more comfortable slotting patrick in that 2nd line center spot. and us finding a more offensively minded 1st line center

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Vorobyov is also very much in that mix.

Dear god, how did I forget him? You are entirely correct. He's the player in the system outside of Patrick I am most convinced stays in the middle too.

 

[Curufinwe]

Dear god, how did I forget him? You are entirely correct. He's the player in the system outside of Patrick I am most convinced stays in the middle too.

Pfft. Vorobyov is no Goulbourne.

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Dear god, how did I forget him? You are entirely correct. He's the player in the system outside of Patrick I am most convinced stays in the middle too.

He's a pimp, yo!

 

[Stizzle]

i would say that is a conservative forecast. Personally i would feel more comfortable slotting patrick in that 2nd line center spot. and us finding a more offensively minded 1st line center

Or you could just fess up and say my lineup sucked. I was trying to portray doom and gloom. So I left good prospects off, and also slightet Rubtsov & Frost even though I've barely seen them play.

It's cool though, we know your gimmick.

 

[Jtown]

Or you could just fess up and say my lineup sucked. I was trying to portray doom and gloom. So I left good prospects off, and also slightet Rubtsov & Frost even though I've barely seen them play.

It's cool though, we know your gimmick.

thats the thing we have a bunch of " good prospects" but where do they fit? and btw that lineup is freaking solid. look at that defense and first line. sick.


Voroboyov, rubstov, frost, coots, are all middle 6 centers, but none of which i feel comfortable slotting into that 2nd line spot that is all.

 

[whitstifier]

Yes, perpetual rebuild. I too never want to watch the Flyers in the playoffs again

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Voroboyov, rubstov, frost, coots, are all middle 6 centers, but none of which i feel comfortable slotting into that 2nd line spot that is all.

Setting aside the Couturier issue, this is one of those cases where plurality allows you to be quite a bit more sure that someone steps up than you are in any one individual case. It's ok to say one from this group of 4 guys rather than being particularly confident in a specific player.

I would argue it's a bigger jump to say either of Lindblom/Konecny are first line wingers than one of those 4 can handle 15 minutes of ES time per game.

 

[FadeToBlack]

In 2-3 years, when I think the Flyers are really ready to contend;

Koneckny - Giroux - Voracek
Simmonds - Patrick - Lindblom
Frost - Couturier - Aube-Kubel
Leier - Rubtsov - Ratcliffe

Sanheim - Provorov
Ghost - Myers
Morin - Hagg

Whichever Goalie Prospect hits or an acquisition
Stolarz



Something like that. Doesn't include first rounders over the next couple seasons too, could easily end up with better wingers than that group. That's a roster that will contend at least until G falls apart.

 

[Curufinwe]

The 2nd line is one of two lines in the middle 6.

 

[Jtown]

Setting aside the Couturier issue, this is one of those cases where plurality allows you to be quite a bit more sure that someone steps up than you are in any one individual case. It's ok to say one from this group of 4 guys rather than being particularly confident in a specific player.

I would argue it's a bigger jump to say either of Lindblom/Konecny are first line wingers than one of those 4 can handle 15 minutes of ES time per game.

i agree. i dont feel comfortable with lindblom konecyny as our first line. Imo patrick linblom and konecny is a stanley cup winning 2nd line.

 

[JojoTheWhale]

The 2nd line is one of two lines in the middle 6.

I had that thought too, but you know he's never going to admit it. It's like arguing with the wind.

 

[Curufinwe]

And presumably if G, Jake and Simmer weren't here, they didn't just all retire/leave as a free agent with the Flyers getting nothing in return.

 

[Rich Nixon]

They're off the quick-fix needle and everything is going fine. Holmgren dried out the pipeline by trading away lots of firsts for, say, Pronger. We have some of the best scouts in the league and we rarely screw up a first round pick-as long as we already have one (and extras!) each year, we'll keep having a terrific prospect pool from here on out. There is no rebuild needed, the cupboards are stocked and just need to be replenished as these guys join the club.

Also, I don't see Simmonds as the type of guy to extort the hell out of a team that is about to be very successful. I think he will accept fair value or even take a tiny cut. He loves the team and the city and as things come together, he knows he'll have the shot to play for a real contender. I see him making it work to stat a Flyer, the only reason to trade him would be if prospects start busting en masse.

 

[Jtown]

I had that thought too, but you know he's never going to admit it. It's like arguing with the wind.

Do you feel comfortable with rubstov, voroboyov, or frost being a 2nd line center on a cup winning team?

 

[Captain Dave Poulin]

Also, I don't see Simmonds as the type of guy to extort the hell out of a team that is about to be very successful. I think he will accept fair value or even take a tiny cut. He loves the team and the city and as things come together, he knows he'll have the shot to play for a real contender. I see him making it work to stat a Flyer, the only reason to trade him would be if prospects start busting en masse.

But that's where it gets tricky - fair value for him is going to cost a bomb, and even a tiny cut would leave a bomb on the table. Maybe he's not the one to trade, maybe we could make his new salary work, but it is going to be very sizeable.

 

[BillDineen]

On my phone but McKenzie had some interesting comments regarding Giroux being in trade rumors this weekend.

@nicholsonhockey

Here is the article with McKenzie quotes from the interview on TSN starting around 5:50:

https://www.fanragsports.com/nhl/mckenzie-investigated-claude-giroux-trade-rumors/

http://www.tsn.ca/radio/montreal-690/mckenzie-maybe-galchenyuk-just-isn-t-centre-1.788910

 

[JojoTheWhale]

Do you feel comfortable with rubstov, voroboyov, or frost being a 2nd line center on a cup winning team?

If I truthfully answer your question, we'll just go in circles on a subject no one wants to hear anymore about. I will just say that given the current system, I believe it is reasonable to expect a 2nd line quality center in 3-4 years will be on the roster excluding Patrick.

i agree. i dont feel comfortable with lindblom konecyny as our first line. Imo patrick linblom and konecny is a stanley cup winning 2nd line.

I mean in an ideal world, sure. These guys don't just fall off of trees, though. Who were contenders last year? Pittsburgh, Washington, Chicago, Columbus, Nashville, and Anaheim? Only Pittsburgh and maybe the Ducks (what their top line was gets complicated) had homegrown top lines and only the Ducks if you count Rakell-Getzlaf-Perry really used three premium picks on theirs. It's just not as black and white as you make it. The whole point of having this depth is that you hope some of them to exceed expectations.

 

[FadeToBlack]

Do you feel comfortable with rubstov, voroboyov, or frost being a 2nd line center on a cup winning team?

Would you feel comfortable with Giroux being a #1 center shortly after he was drafted? Because Frost was taken only a few spots later than him.

These guys are young, they have a lot of development, physically and skill-wise, ahead of them. Let's give them time to develop before we throw them away.

Want to see what people thought of G?

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=253254&highlight=giroux

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showthread.php?t=262640&highlight=claude+giroux

 

[Curufinwe]

This really is the stupidest argument I've ever seen on here.

Take three of our top 4 scorers from last year off the team, assume we get nothing in return, ignore good prospects like Vorobyov in favor of plugs like Goulbourne, pretend Couturier can't be the thing he has been for at least two years now, assume multiple first round center prospects will end up on the wing, then say the team left over can't win a Cup. Well, no **** a Flyers team that loses Giroux, Voracek and Simmonds for nothing won't win a Cup.