OT: Should Doug Armstrong get fired?

[Snubbed4Vezina]

I disagree. I think last season's team was a much better team than the prior two seasons. They were a Binnington injury away from giving Colorado a real tough challenge and with a couple bounces I truly believe they would've found themselves a the team rolling Edmonton on the way to face the Lightning in our second Stanley Cup Finals appearance in four seasons.

 

[BadgersandBlues]

What optimistic pills you are eating? If you think we are winning Cup next year? Team has been just downgraded every year after winning Cup.


Drink more Army's kool-aid

I mean....all I did was state his accomplishments - of which there are many. When you look around the league, how many teams have been as successful as we have without a generational talent? I think AP is criminally underrated on these boards, but he wasn't generational, just top 5/at worst top 10 at his position, which isn't nothing, but it's also not sure-fire HOF such as Crosby/Malkin or Ovechkin, etc.

Armstrong won the Cup as the AGM of Dallas. As the GM of Dallas, he had a .634 winning %, which is the highest of any GM in Stars History.

For the Blues, we've already won one Cup, and look competitive to win another both now, and moving forward - there's no guarantee, but I think most around these boards believe we're a top three (Top two?) Western Conference team, which again is nothing to sneeze at. As I stated before, we're like fifth in overall points since Army became GM, and third in playoff wins (or maybe those ranks are backwards, I can't remember). In his twelve years as Blues GM, we've made the playoffs ten times, and we've gone to the second round five times, the Conference Finals twice, and of course the Stanley Cup once.

I even forgot that the HOF DOES look at International events as well, so then you get to add in - from Wikipedia:

Armstrong has been part of Hockey Canada's management group for the gold medal-winning teams in the 2010 and 2014 Winter Olympics; 2007 and 2016 Gold Medal World Championship Teams, 2016 World Cup Championship Winning Team plus the Silver Medal Winning Teams in the 2008 and 2009 World Championship. After winning the Stanley Cup in 2019 with the St. Louis Blues Armstrong became the 1st person in management to become part of the Double Triple Gold Club ( Winning Stanley Cup in 1999 and 2019, Olympics in 2010 and 2014 plus World Championship in 2007 and 2016).

TLD f***ing R- 2 Stanley Cups, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, 2 World Championship Gold Medals. He's the first person to win two of everything in management - if winning is what you care about, the dude has a lot and I mean a LOT of f***ing hardware.

Have we taken a step back this off-season? The honest answer is....maybe? But that's the point of a salary cap - the good teams have to make tough choices and those choices generally require them to come back down to Earth a bit. Last season Tampa lost their entire third line. Their entire third line! We lost one guy and everyone acts like the sky is f***ing falling. (That guy, who btw, everyone was ready to throw overboard around February, is 34, has a history of concussions, and frankly is more of a PP specialist then many may want to admit, who was also almost completely useless when our top C wasn't playing like the usual Superman that he is).

I love Perron, I would have loved to have that bit of trivia in my back pocket that he played for like 6 teams but only ever signed with us....but it wasn't meant to be. We signed him to something like 45+ million dollars worth of contracts over his life, so if he wants to be upset about it, then fine. I wish someone would treat me oh so terribly for 45 million dollars.

 

[Ranksu]

I mean....all I did was state his accomplishments - of which there are many. When you look around the league, how many teams have been as successful as we have without a generational talent? I think AP is criminally underrated on these boards, but he wasn't generational, just top 5/at worst top 10 at his position, which isn't nothing, but it's also not sure-fire HOF such as Crosby/Malkin or Ovechkin, etc.

Armstrong won the Cup as the AGM of Dallas. As the GM of Dallas, he had a .634 winning %, which is the highest of any GM in Stars History.

For the Blues, we've already won one Cup, and look competitive to win another both now, and moving forward - there's no guarantee, but I think most around these boards believe we're a top three (Top two?) Western Conference team, which again is nothing to sneeze at. As I stated before, we're like fifth in overall points since Army became GM, and third in playoff wins (or maybe those ranks are backwards, I can't remember). In his twelve years as Blues GM, we've made the playoffs ten times, and we've gone to the second round five times, the Conference Finals twice, and of course the Stanley Cup once.

I even forgot that the HOF DOES look at International events as well, so then you get to add in - from Wikipedia:

Armstrong has been part of Hockey Canada's management group for the gold medal-winning teams in the 2010 and 2014 Winter Olympics; 2007 and 2016 Gold Medal World Championship Teams, 2016 World Cup Championship Winning Team plus the Silver Medal Winning Teams in the 2008 and 2009 World Championship. After winning the Stanley Cup in 2019 with the St. Louis Blues Armstrong became the 1st person in management to become part of the Double Triple Gold Club ( Winning Stanley Cup in 1999 and 2019, Olympics in 2010 and 2014 plus World Championship in 2007 and 2016).

TLD f***ing R- 2 Stanley Cups, 2 Olympic Gold Medals, 2 World Championship Gold Medals. He's the first person to win two of everything in management - if winning is what you care about, the dude has a lot and I mean a LOT of f***ing hardware.

Have we taken a step back this off-season? The honest answer is....maybe? But that's the point of a salary cap - the good teams have to make tough choices and those choices generally require them to come back down to Earth a bit. Last season Tampa lost their entire third line. Their entire third line! We lost one guy and everyone acts like the sky is f***ing falling. (That guy, who btw, everyone was ready to throw overboard around February, is 34, has a history of concussions, and frankly is more of a PP specialist then many may want to admit, who was also almost completely useless when our top C wasn't playing like the usual Superman that he is).

I love Perron, I would have loved to have that bit of trivia in my back pocket that he played for like 6 teams but only ever signed with us....but it wasn't meant to be. We signed him to something like 45+ million dollars worth of contracts over his life, so if he wants to be upset about it, then fine. I wish someone would treat me oh so terribly for 45 million dollars.

It will strike in mid season when you pounder your head why on earth our PP has dropped off that heavily? Was NHL best and now mediocre. Oh how on earth losing one man affect our produce?

When you count left and right guys who just walk for nothing, are elite players you will get step backs. I don't know how naive you need to be to understand it? It's not like we gardening top players. Eventually you will end up players like Thomas and Kyrou as our best players. Then there is dropp off. Nothing special after those two. Be draft +25 picks if you don't get super lucky and have serious amateur scouting after Bill Armstrong is gone our late round picks won't be as that good at is use to be.

This team is edge of falling apart. When we fall there will be long re-build time. Drafting late rounds many will have impact. The dropp off will be heavy. Miss the playoffs and hang on Thomas and Kyrou and don't have nothing behind them. Ugly times if right moves aren't made by now.

Having Nick f***ing Leddy in our team in 4 more years won't do ape dhit to us. He isn't difference maker.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

It will strike in mid season when you pounder your head why on earth our PP has dropped off that heavily? Was NHL best and now mediocre. Oh how on earth losing one man affect our produce?

When you count left and right guys who just walk for nothing, are elite players you will get step backs. I don't know how naive you need to be to understand it? It's not like we gardening top players. Eventually you will end up players like Thomas and Kyrou as our best players. Then there is dropp off. Nothing special after those two. Be draft +25 picks if you don't get super lucky and have serious amateur scouting after Bill Armstrong is gone our late round picks won't be as that good at is use to be.

This team is edge of falling apart. When we fall there will be long re-build time. Drafting late rounds many will have impact. The dropp off will be heavy. Miss the playoffs and hang on Thomas and Kyrou and don't have nothing behind them. Ugly times if right moves aren't made by now.

Having Nick f***ing Leddy in our team in 4 more years won't do ape dhit to us. He isn't difference maker.

You've been saying the same thing for 3 years since Pietro left. "Omg we suck, this team is going to fall apart, Krug and Faulk are horrible midgets" yet somehow we continue to be a yearly playoff team.

 

[Ranksu]

You've been saying the same thing for 3 years since Pietro left. "Omg we suck, this team is going to fall apart, Krug and Faulk are horrible midgets" yet somehow we continue to be a yearly playoff team.

You get hard to pass 1st round. You count that success?

 

[Linkens Mastery]

You get hard to pass 1st round. You count that success?

And How far has Pietro made it since he ran to Vegas?

 

[Reality Czech]

And How far has Pietro made it since he ran to Vegas?

Petro's best years are behind him. The more time passes, the happier I am that he left.

 

[Louie the Blue]

You get hard to pass 1st round. You count that success?

Blues made it past the first round this postseason.

 

[BlueSeal]

You get hard to pass 1st round. You count that success?

The Greatest Moment In Blues History.

Petro's best years are behind him. The more time passes, the happier I am that he left.

For real! The moment he left it's like he fell off a cliff, like another previous Captain that happened to be in the hand shake line when Pie hoisted the Cup lol.

The longer we go, the more we realize how smart Army is. Pie isn't the D we're missing, it's JayBo.

 

[Ranksu]

And How far has Pietro made it since he ran to Vegas?

Is it Vegas same team as Blues?

 

[mk80]

I disagree. I think last season's team was a much better team than the prior two seasons. They were a Binnington injury away from giving Colorado a real tough challenge and with a couple bounces I truly believe they would've found themselves a the team rolling Edmonton on the way to face the Lightning in our second Stanley Cup Finals appearance in four seasons.

I agree whole heartedly with this statement!

 

[oPlaiD]

It definitely irks me a bit that in theory we didn't re-sign Pietrangelo because we didn't want money and term committed to an aging defenseman... and then all of a sudden we're locked into a top 4 of similarly aged defensemen for the same term.

You can certainly argue his results in Vegas haven't been great, but the fact is the second Petro left the team we changed from a team with shot counts and expected goals in our favor to one on the opposite end. Yes there are other changes but that's the most identifiable and biggest impact one.

It's all what-ifs, but it doesn't seem unlikely that retaining Pietrangelo, even if he regressed a bit, would have prevented most of that shift.

And we can say Army has a plan all we want, but at this point our defensive moves since then have essentially been bandaging a self-inflicted wound as we continue to bleed out.

 

[Xerloris]

It definitely irks me a bit that in theory we didn't re-sign Pietrangelo because we didn't want money and term committed to an aging defenseman... and then all of a sudden we're locked into a top 4 of similarly aged defensemen for the same term.

You can certainly argue his results in Vegas haven't been great, but the fact is the second Petro left the team we changed from a team with shot counts and expected goals in our favor to one on the opposite end. Yes there are other changes but that's the most identifiable and biggest impact one.

It's all what-ifs, but it doesn't seem unlikely that retaining Pietrangelo, even if he regressed a bit, would have prevented most of that shift.

And we can say Army has a plan all we want, but at this point our defensive moves since then have essentially been bandaging a self-inflicted wound as we continue to bleed out.

Pietrangelo wouldn't solve anything. If anything we would be worse. We need LD and Pietrangelo RD, that does not help us and we would not have Krug which makes our LD situation even worse.

 

[Linkens Mastery]

It definitely irks me a bit that in theory we didn't re-sign Pietrangelo because we didn't want money and term committed to an aging defenseman... and then all of a sudden we're locked into a top 4 of similarly aged defensemen for the same term.

You can certainly argue his results in Vegas haven't been great, but the fact is the second Petro left the team we changed from a team with shot counts and expected goals in our favor to one on the opposite end. Yes there are other changes but that's the most identifiable and biggest impact one.

It's all what-ifs, but it doesn't seem unlikely that retaining Pietrangelo, even if he regressed a bit, would have prevented most of that shift.

And we can say Army has a plan all we want, but at this point our defensive moves since then have essentially been bandaging a self-inflicted wound as we continue to bleed out.

??? Armstrong offered him both Money and Term. He didn't offer a NMC.

 

[buches gooches]

Its almost like navigating the salary cap is a difficult job that requires more nuance and experience than anyone who posts on a hockey msg board would possess.

The Petro shit is annoying get over it.

 

[ToniJ1960]

I disagree. I think last season's team was a much better team than the prior two seasons. They were a Binnington injury away from giving Colorado a real tough challenge and with a couple bounces I truly believe they would've found themselves a the team rolling Edmonton on the way to face the Lightning in our second Stanley Cup Finals appearance in four seasons.

you mean Bennington was better if the team was better they wouldnt fall apart so much without him.

 

[parliamentlite]

We resigned Leddy because Paryako needs a copilot, and he's the best one we've found post JBouw.

 

[Ranksu]

Army failed to bring hometown boy in St. Louis.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

Army failed to bring hometown boy in St. Louis.

I was never a TV guy, but while I was married, my wife watched it all the time and this show was fantastic. I loved it.

YOU’RE FIRED!!!

One of the most memorable moments on that show was a contestant who described himself as “white trash” and Trump immediately fired him.

 

[Wovenhand1976]

What would you have offered Ranksu? To beat Florida's deal? And must ask, How do you feel regarding Faulk these days?

 

[Prosaic]

I’m not saying he deserves to be fired but it’s completely fair to be highly critical of most the decisions he’s made post June 12 2019.

The cold hard reality is that if they weren’t going to bring back Pietrangelo (which I don’t necessarily think was a bad decision) then they should’ve committed to a retool around Kyrou and Thomas.

Locking in a bunch of middle tier players that aren’t going to move the needle such as Schenn, Binnington, Parayko, Faulk, Krug, etc. into their mid to late 30’s was definitely not the most ideal plan in my opinion.

This off-season in particular has been rather disappointing. I’m not a fan of the Leddy contract, and the team has objectively gotten worse. I really hope they don’t let ROR or Tarasenko walk for nothing if they aren’t going to extend them. I don’t look at the current roster and see how it’s better than last years team, and considering last years team wasn’t that spectacular either, I can’t foresee this team being a real contender for a championship.

 

[AjaxManifesto]

I’m not saying he deserves to be fired but it’s completely fair to be highly critical of most the decisions he’s made post June 12 2019.

The cold hard reality is that if they weren’t going to bring back Pietrangelo (which I don’t necessarily think was a bad decision) then they should’ve committed to a retool around Kyrou and Thomas.

Locking in a bunch of middle tier players that aren’t going to move the needle such as Schenn, Binnington, Parayko, Faulk, Krug, etc. into their mid to late 30’s was definitely not the most ideal plan in my opinion.

This off-season in particular has been rather disappointing. I’m not a fan of the Leddy contract, and the team has objectively gotten worse. I really hope they don’t let ROR or Tarasenko walk for nothing if they aren’t going to extend them. I don’t look at the current roster and see how it’s better than last years team, and considering last years team wasn’t that spectacular either, I can’t foresee this team being a real contender for a championship.

ROR and Tank are gone at the end of the 2022-2023 season.

DA has effectively erased the 2019 Blues from the organizational culture.

God knows what this team is now.

 

[ChicagoBlues]

ROR and Tank are gone at the end of the 2022-2023 season.

DA has effectively erased the 2019 Blues from the organizational culture.

God knows what this team is now.

No. I think ROR is extended and Vladi walks.

 

[Debacled]

I’m not saying he deserves to be fired but it’s completely fair to be highly critical of most the decisions he’s made post June 12 2019.

The cold hard reality is that if they weren’t going to bring back Pietrangelo (which I don’t necessarily think was a bad decision) then they should’ve committed to a retool around Kyrou and Thomas.

Locking in a bunch of middle tier players that aren’t going to move the needle such as Schenn, Binnington, Parayko, Faulk, Krug, etc. into their mid to late 30’s was definitely not the most ideal plan in my opinion.

This off-season in particular has been rather disappointing. I’m not a fan of the Leddy contract, and the team has objectively gotten worse. I really hope they don’t let ROR or Tarasenko walk for nothing if they aren’t going to extend them. I don’t look at the current roster and see how it’s better than last years team, and considering last years team wasn’t that spectacular either, I can’t foresee this team being a real contender for a championship.

What would a retool around Kyrou and Thomas look like to you?

Complain about the "middle tier" players all you want, that has been Army's mo the entire time and that isn't changing anytime soon. He is never going to build a team around a handful of top paid guys with cheap pieces filling the gaps.

Army isn't ever going to be the GM going out there throwing top dollar at guys like Gaudreau, he has been on record saying those huge contracts hamstring the rest of the roster too heavily. Pietro is a good example, and the money he was offering there probably already had him sweating, that contract is going to hurt at 35+

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I’m not saying he deserves to be fired but it’s completely fair to be highly critical of most the decisions he’s made post June 12 2019.

The cold hard reality is that if they weren’t going to bring back Pietrangelo (which I don’t necessarily think was a bad decision) then they should’ve committed to a retool around Kyrou and Thomas.

Locking in a bunch of middle tier players that aren’t going to move the needle such as Schenn, Binnington, Parayko, Faulk, Krug, etc. into their mid to late 30’s was definitely not the most ideal plan in my opinion.

This off-season in particular has been rather disappointing. I’m not a fan of the Leddy contract, and the team has objectively gotten worse. I really hope they don’t let ROR or Tarasenko walk for nothing if they aren’t going to extend them. I don’t look at the current roster and see how it’s better than last years team, and considering last years team wasn’t that spectacular either, I can’t foresee this team being a real contender for a championship.

This is silly. Last years club was an untimely injury away from likely trip to Finals. We are adding more young talent this year and our only losses are backup goalie who faltered in playoffs and aging winger who was beloved but is replaceable from within.