Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?

[The Apologist]

So if Burke drafted a whole series of elite players (unlike the mediocre mess we currently have) would you just say "Burke didn't do a good job. He got lucky. The draft is a fluke!"?

For Burke supporters, if Burke drafts terribly "the draft is a fluke".
If he drafts well "Burke is a genius".

Unlike us leaf fan realists who allow the facts and results to speak for themselves.

Ah yes, the realist card again. Tell me realist, how did Bozak do last season, and what was your realistic prediction for him?

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

Ah yes, the realist card again. Tell me realist, how did Bozak do last season, and what was your realistic prediction for him?

As a realist, I would say that a 1st line player scoring under 50 points is similar to a 4th line player getting no points, no body checks, and accidentally scoring on his own net 15 times throughout the regular season.

(And I am well aware that there were other 1st line players in the league that were terrible last year... so don't bother citing me examples.)

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

The team Burke inherited had a top 10 offense as well. Does that mean that they were also "ready to take the next step"? That team also had higher rated prospects according to professional nhl scouts that make THN's rankings list.

The team Burke inherited had the same holes almost 5 years ago.
No elite center, no elite goaltending.

So after four years of bottom 10 finishes, the current team doesn't score more goals, doesn't prevent more goals, doesn't win more games, and has lower rated prospects than the team Burke inherited.

I'm flat out shocked that people are still trying to put a positive spin on Burke's abortion of a tenure with the leafs.

there are holes I never disputed that I just think that where we are in the standings or at least where we have been has much more to do with whats in net then any other position on the roster. You put louongo on this team and I bet they get home ice

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

there are holes I never disputed that I just think that where we are in the standings or at least where we have been has much more to do with whats in net then any other position on the roster. You put louongo on this team and I bet they get home ice

Couldn't we say the same for the team that Burke inherited?
Put Luongo in net with the 2007 leafs, and they were most likely a playoff team.

After four bottom 10 finishes, what exactly has Burke improved? We finish worse in the standings, and the professional nhl scouts that create THN rankings listed the current leafs as WORSE than 4 years ago.

 

[charliolemieux]

So if Burke drafted a whole series of elite players (unlike the mediocre mess we currently have) would you just say "Burke didn't do a good job. He got lucky. The draft is a fluke!"?

For Burke supporters, if Burke drafts terribly "the draft is a fluke".
If he drafts well "Burke is a genius".

Unlike us leaf fan realists who allow the facts and results to speak for themselves.

So you think the draft isn't a fluke?

So every draft is equal then?

So 1996 is as good as 2003?

PLease explain.

 

[Disgruntled Observer*]

So you think the draft isn't a fluke?

So every draft is equal then?

So 1996 is as good as 2003?

PLease explain.

I'm not EVER answering a question of yours again. Not until you answer this question.

What is a better means of assessing our prospects compared to the rest of the league than a rankings list created by professional nhl scouts?

I'll throw in another question.

If one team was managed by the best GM in nhl history for 5 years, and the other was managed by a 7 year old child...
who do you think would have better prospects?

Or is it entirely a "fluke", and it could go either way?

 

[Frankie]

Speaking from experience, I take it?

as much experience as you have.

there's no reason he wouldn't implement his system immediately. and there's no reason smart nhl-calibre hockey players should take very long to learn it.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Nope, my argument was very plain to see if you care to go back and read what I was responding to.

I know, it's tough to actually respond to something within the context it was written. Much easier to presume and twist and spout nonsense, ever thought of going into politics?

Quite a good job of autocriticism...

Reread that sequence and if you don't get it, I'll post it once again.

 

[Al14]

Please tell me how Burke will be able to do anything more with one extra year?

Oh, he might be able to trade another 1st round draft pick and screw the Leafs again in the process!

 

[achtungbaby]

You're nastier than me...

The Christmas season is over.

 

[CellarDweller0]

So if Burke drafted a whole series of elite players (unlike the mediocre mess we currently have) would you just say "Burke didn't do a good job. He got lucky. The draft is a fluke!"?

For Burke supporters, if Burke drafts terribly "the draft is a fluke".
If he drafts well "Burke is a genius".

Unlike us leaf fan realists who allow the facts and results to speak for themselves.

Not to argue your point on the draft but this "realist" stuff is a bunch of crap because you "realists" have already put faith in an "imaginary" GM that you "hope" would do a better job than the current GM.

 

[CellarDweller0]

as much experience as you have.

there's no reason he wouldn't implement his system immediately. and there's no reason smart nhl-calibre hockey players should take very long to learn it.

I think to an extent he did. However he also tried to play his guys in a different way that allowed him to assess their abilities rather than a way to best utilize them for winning the game. In fact I believe he stated as such when he arrived that aside from knowing that the team was a really fast team from when the Leafs/Ducks played last that he did not know exactly what he has to work with skillwise and he was going to find out.

 

[ULF_55]

I think to an extent he did. However he also tried to play his guys in a different way that allowed him to assess their abilities rather than a way to best utilize them for winning the game. In fact I believe he stated as such when he arrived that aside from knowing that the team was a really fast team from when the Leafs/Ducks played last that he did not know exactly what he has to work with skillwise and he was going to find out.

He also lost Kulemin and Lupul, from a line-up without much depth.

 

[ACC1224]

A year???? Hopefully he gets a longer extension than that.

 

[ULF_55]

A year???? Hopefully he gets a longer extension than that.

Not sure why anyone is talking about an extension when he signed a 6 year deal in 2008?

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

Not to argue your point on the draft but this "realist" stuff is a bunch of crap because you "realists" have already put faith in an "imaginary" GM that you "hope" would do a better job than the current GM.

You've got a good point, but the so-called "realists" can only evaluate the job done by the GM who has the job presently.

Their evaluation appears closer to reality than the one of the so-called "apologists".

He has done very good things (a magician at trades most of the times) but the results, as of now, are not impressive.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

I think to an extent he did. However he also tried to play his guys in a different way that allowed him to assess their abilities rather than a way to best utilize them for winning the game. In fact I believe he stated as such when he arrived that aside from knowing that the team was a really fast team from when the Leafs/Ducks played last that he did not know exactly what he has to work with skillwise and he was going to find out.

How many points out of a playoff spot were the Leafs when he took over?

Would not his first and only priority be to win games?

 

[hockeyfanz*]

I'm not EVER answering a question of yours again. Not until you answer this question.

What is a better means of assessing our prospects compared to the rest of the league than a rankings list created by professional nhl scouts?

I'll throw in another question.

If one team was managed by the best GM in nhl history for 5 years, and the other was managed by a 7 year old child...
who do you think would have better prospects?

Or is it entirely a "fluke", and it could go either way?

Well a poll on HF Boards of course...even better if its in the Leafs forum and we are assessing Leaf prospects.

 

[rstml]

I want to start off by apologizing to you because I don't want you to take this personally. This is really a message to anyone on this board who thinks Burke should be canned or given 1 more year to "redeem himself/ prove himself".

What has Burke done that makes him worthy of being fired?

- Kessel Trade? NO. He got a 22-23 year old proven 30 goal scorer in Kessel...who happens to have scored 30 goals every year since joining the Leafs...he's finished in top 5 in scoring and one can argue is a top 5-10 winger in the entire NHL. Oh yea, hes only 25 still! Yes, he ended up giving two high picks that turned out to be Seguin who will be a stud in the NHL and a defenseman who HAS YET TO PLAY A SINGLE GAME IN THE NHL...yes, he has the chance to be good even great but you've gotten yourself a proven commodity whose also very young. Not many teams have a game breaker in the way Kessel is on the ice. He's a chance to score every shift.

-- Also, Pretty sure Seguin wouldn't be as dominant in Toronto as he is on a stacked contending team. Just saying!

- Acquired Lupul & Gardiner -- pure genius!

- Lombardi & Franson - got us a 6'5 defenseman who has a cannon from the point. Yes, he hasn't become a force out there. However, look what he gave up. Lombardi was taking a hit to get a potential top 4 defenseman in Franson. Even if he's a 5-6 its still a good trade!

- Got rid of Jason Blakes contract - enough said!

Ron Wilson - wasn't hired by Burke...happened to be his best friend and it didn't work out so he fired him. IF you can say you'd just fire your best friend the second they sucked, then you'd be a ****** friend...not to mention they were doing really well in the first 2/3rds of the season last year.

- Tim Connolly signing - Connolly when healthy is leaps and bounds better then Bozak. Connolly when healthy can put up 50-70 points. Better passer then Bozak. Also, Gives Naz time to develop and it looks like its paying off as Naz has shown this year he's becoming a more consistant and better rounded player. Oh yea, was 2 friggin year contract not a big deal.

Komisarek - MISTAKE # 1

Gerber - MISTAKE # 2...same time I respect the man for wanting to make his team as best as possible but in the end the pick was going to BOS so really, he tried to ease the sting of giving up a top pick.

Drafting Biggs, Percy, Ross, McKegg, RIELLY (looks like a beauty of a pick), Finn...don't really see any mistakes there worth getting fired over, do you?

Dion Phaneuf - Again, who cares how much he makes BURKE DIDNT SIGN HIM TO THAT CONTRACT!!! he only gave up NOTHING SUBSTANTIAL

So yes, 4 years and no playoffs but do you all have amnesia? do you forget how brutal this team was before Burke got here?

Let me remind you...

Blake/Stajan/Ponikarovsky --- first line

So why is it fair that Burke should be fired? do you realize how much work it takes to get a stanley cup winner? or even a good hockey team? It took LA gm 9 YEARS to make the Kings what they are...so why is Burke only allowed 4? how many years has Sather been the GM of the Rangers? only the last few seasons they've been good and in contention in last year. Remember all those years when they missed the playoffs? I certainly do!

So please, please give me your arguments that proves Burke should be fired? or only given 1 more year to "redeem" himself. LOL learn something about hockey. Rome wasn't built in a day...NOR WILL THE LEAFS!

Ps. GM in Edmonton has tanked it for 4 season and yet they may miss the playoffs the next season. Sure they have ridiculous talent on forward but their D is nothing to be proud of and their goaltending is as bad as ours...Guess he should be fired too? or given 1 more chance? Pretty sure they resigned him to 3 year extension? Burke will be as well. Oh yea, 1 more thing everyone wanted his head for not offering crazy big contracts with back diving salaries. Pretty sure those teams are screwed when the new CBA is finalized. Guess Burke didn't know what he was talking about all those times. Hmmm!

It's what he hasn't done... WIN. Edmonton will be a dominant force for years, they rebuilt properly. Whereas the Leafs did not, they 'retooled' which minimally helps us now but doesn't do crap for the future. Also Seguin will be a superstar in this league without a doubt.

 

[DD03]

It's what he hasn't done... WIN. Edmonton will be a dominant force for years, they rebuilt properly. Whereas the Leafs did not, they 'retooled' which minimally helps us now but doesn't do crap for the future. Also Seguin will be a superstar in this league without a doubt.

How do you expect the Oilers to win with questionable goaltending and a defense like that? It's a lot of hopefuls but still people are letting it slide because they did it "properly". I have a hard time seeing Hall, Eberle and Hopkins handling the rigors of playoff hockey on their own..

 

[Bomber0104]

How do you expect the Oilers to win with questionable goaltending and a defense like that? It's a lot of hopefuls but still people are letting it slide because they did it "properly". I have a hard time seeing Hall, Eberle and Hopkins handling the rigors of playoff hockey..

Their defence and goaltending is as worse as ours.

So even if that is even, they still have the astronomical edge with Hall, Eberle, Nuge, and Yakupov (you forgot him)

 

[DD03]

Their defence and goaltending is as worse as ours.

So even if that is even, they still have the astronomical edge with Hall, Eberle, Nuge, and Yakupov (you forgot him)

Have yet to do more then Phil Kessel in the NHL. Specially in a season. Until they, its all could bes and what ifs.

 

[ACC1224]

It's what he hasn't done... WIN. Edmonton will be a dominant force for years, they rebuilt properly. Whereas the Leafs did not, they 'retooled' which minimally helps us now but doesn't do crap for the future. Also Seguin will be a superstar in this league without a doubt.

All the players will flee Edmonton 1st chance they get.....without a doubt.

 

[Bomber0104]

Have yet to do more then Phil Kessel in the NHL. Specially in a season. Until they, its all could bes and what ifs.

I think Eberle is better than Kessel.

But assume that's even.

Edmonton has the near-astronomical edge with Yakupov, Ryan Nugent Hopkins, and Taylor Hall with Toronto and Edmonton's defence and goaltending even and Phil Kessel and Eberle a wash.

Toronto could have had these players.

 

[Schenn]

How do you expect the Oilers to win with questionable goaltending and a defense like that? It's a lot of hopefuls but still people are letting it slide because they did it "properly". I have a hard time seeing Hall, Eberle and Hopkins handling the rigors of playoff hockey on their own..

I have a funny feeling Edmonton ends up with Jones as their defensive cornerstone. (if there is no season that is)