Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?

[charliolemieux]

when your doing a draft rebuild and development stratigy you don't worry about your standings infact the worst the better but when your GM has put pieces into place he expects to put him in the playoff picture and it fails miserably then yes the standings matter in this situation. Burke has never taken the stance of play the kids and it doesn't matter where we finish attitude. he wants to win and he's trying his best to make the playoffs and failing there's a big difference

And I am willing to bet my entire years salary that if BUrke had sat back with $20 in cap room for the last 3 years that you and your brethern would be going absolutly ape **** about why he wasn't spending the alloted cap space.

YOu guys hate him for being him and refuse to see anything he does in a positive light.

HE does his best to catch lightning in a bottle to give this town something to get excited about and you hang him for it. (If Connolly returned to PPG Connolly able to fill the #1 C spot you'd all be kissing BUrke's ASS!!!!!)

What he does doesn't work and the team sucks, but they don't suck enough to get you guys a good enough pick.

Yet you ignore the fact that he refused to handcuff this team in an attempt to become JUST good enough to make the post season.

YOu refuse to acknowledge that he was a GM who actually for the most part "Let thet kids play".

Granted he brought in more UFA's than I liked but again he only signed guys to short deals. So it is not like MacAurthur or Connolly is blocking Kadri for 5 more years.

as for the picks because most of those players are so far away from there draft that there position is meaningless now that there already in there prime. did you really put Komi in there? I'm actually surprised you didn't put Connolly as he was a 5th overall pick aswell. do you believe that saying Komi was a 7th overall pick makes him somehow better? it's not about the draft position it's about the players you drafted. how many of those were drafted and developed by Toronto? none?

Would you rather a line-up filled with former 6th round picks or former 1st round picks?

Really, your dismisal of this obvious strategy is enlightening.

 

[charliolemieux]

You remind me of a poster now banned who would go around twisting the facts to slag every other GM in the league to defend Burkies pitiful record witht he Leafs .

I am not twisting facts.

Please cite an example, or admit you are lying.

 

[charliolemieux]

I won't play your childish game but I could. You're a murderer if you bury the survivors.

Silly .... You don't bury survivors.

 

[The Blue Devil]

Tallon put together a playoff team and a much higher rated prospect pool in a shorter time period than Burke has been here but we still have the Burkie supporters crying to give Burke multiple more seasons .

If the Leafs played in Florida's division then they make the playoffs easily.

 

[-DeMo-]

And I am willing to bet my entire years salary that if BUrke had sat back with $20 in cap room for the last 3 years that you and your brethern would be going absolutly ape **** about why he wasn't spending the alloted cap space.

YOu guys hate him for being him and refuse to see anything he does in a positive light.

HE does his best to catch lightning in a bottle to give this town something to get excited about and you hang him for it. (If Connolly returned to PPG Connolly able to fill the #1 C spot you'd all be kissing BUrke's ASS!!!!!)

What he does doesn't work and the team sucks, but they don't suck enough to get you guys a good enough pick.

Yet you ignore the fact that he refused to handcuff this team in an attempt to become JUST good enough to make the post season.

YOu refuse to acknowledge that he was a GM who actually for the most part "Let thet kids play".

Granted he brought in more UFA's than I liked but again he only signed guys to short deals. So it is not like MacAurthur or Connolly is blocking Kadri for 5 more years.

Would you rather a line-up filled with former 6th round picks or former 1st round picks?

Really, your dismisal of this obvious strategy is enlightening.

actually I wouldn't be up in arms about doing a draft rebuild and leaving room under the cap, I would have no problem with that if he was clearly following the draft and developing strategy.

and would you rather have Datsyuk or Zach Hamill?

 

[charliolemieux]

So you're saying that most of the GMs did a better job than Burkie.

OK.

No .


The Entire Eastern Conference had a lot more to start with than Burke, and a few added special pieces since he has been here.

I fail to see how you can deny the rest of the league(tried) (East Conf. in particular) got better during the last 5 years.

 

[charliolemieux]

actually I wouldn't be up in arms about doing a draft rebuild and leaving room under the cap, I would have no problem with that if he was clearly following the draft and developing strategy.

YEAh, BUUUUUULLLLLLLLLL PUCKY.


SO the guy tries to provide you with a worthwhile product to watch while not only maintaining your potenial future, but vastly improving it, by spending to the cap max without ****ing the team going into the future. SO he he does everything you want a GM to do and yet you still hate him?

Who's the one with the issue here?

I got a mirror if you need to borrow one.

and would you rather have Datsyuk or Zach Hamill?

LMAO

DO you want AIDS or no?

Rediculous.

 

[hotpaws]

I am not twisting facts.

Please cite an example, or admit you are lying.

Okay Pete/Blue/Charlio or whatever account you choose to post with this week i'll play along .

In his first 2 drafts Tallon loaded up on draft picks ( 14 picks in the first 3 round ) and that's why he has one of the highest rated propect pools . The only high quality prospect he inherited was Markstrom . So when you consider these facts maybe you can explain why you said the only reason he has a top ranked prospect pool is because he inherited it .

 

[hotpaws]

YEAh, BUUUUUULLLLLLLLLL PUCKY.

SO the guy tries to provide you with a worthwhile product to watch while not only maintaining your potenial future, but vastly improving it, by spending to the cap max without ****ing the team going into the future. SO he he does everything you want a GM to do and yet you still hate him?

Who's the one with the issue here?

Burke tried and failed , gm's don't get extended for effort they get extended for performance .

Considering our prospect is still rated in the bottom half the league i have no idea how you can say he's vastly improved our future .

He did very little i wanted him to do so you shouldn't speak for others .

 

[-DeMo-]

YEAh, BUUUUUULLLLLLLLLL PUCKY.


SO the guy tries to provide you with a worthwhile product to watch while not only maintaining your potenial future, but vastly improving it, by spending to the cap max without ****ing the team going into the future. SO he he does everything you want a GM to do and yet you still hate him?

Who's the one with the issue here?

I got a mirror if you need to borrow one.




LMAO

DO you want AIDS or no?

Rediculous.

so you agree that draft position doesn't matter once they've been draft good, so please don't bother bringing that back up.

and if Burke successfully made the team better and our future better at the same point I would be applauding the work he's done even tho it's different from what I would have wanted. but thats clearly not the case, he hasn't improved our future nor has he improved the on-ice product. just because he's tried to do something doesn't mean he's done a good job. he's failed at what he's tried to do. and thus doesn't warrant anybody imo thinking he's done a good job.

 

[charliolemieux]

so you agree that draft position doesn't matter once they've been draft good, so please don't bother bringing that back up.

Draft postion matters according to draft.

LEmieux, Clark, Stepan, LEcavalier, Phillips, are all #1 picks. Depends on the draft .

and if Burke successfully made the team better and our future better at the same point I would be applauding the work he's done even tho it's different from what I would have wanted. but thats clearly not the case, he hasn't improved our future nor has he improved the on-ice product. just because he's tried to do something doesn't mean he's done a good job. he's failed at what he's tried to do. and thus doesn't warrant anybody imo thinking he's done a good job.

Kessel, Lupul, Gardiner, Phaneuf

v.

Steen, Antropov, Kaberle, Kubina

NO improvement at all.

This is what you are all missing.

 

[Gatorade*]

Tallon filled his team with 2nd and 3rd liners to reach the floor to go along with the great prospects he inheritted. He played in a weak division to make the post season. But sur elets use him as a meassuring stick. (Tallon is good btw. but for some reason keeps getting booted before his value is realised. ) Maybe the anti Burker should think about that?

If Versteeg has played in TOR the way he played in FLA he never would have been traded.

Huberdeau and Markstrom are the reason why FLA is rated so high in prospects.

They fluked out on both picks. Ofcourse every year is a fluke when it comes to the draft. Some of you might want to write that down. The Draft is a fluke. Got it? NO? Well go get it. Good.

Lets get this straight:

Left side of mouth: Burke is awesome.

Right side of mouth: it's all a fluke.

 

[Gatorade*]

I am not twisting facts.

Please cite an example, or admit you are lying.

All you do is ignore facts. Lets be accurate.

You have thousands of posts proclaiming the wicked job Burke is doing. It's hilarious but sad.

The team is bottom 5!!! Open your eyes.

 

[Gatorade*]

If the Leafs played in Florida's division then they make the playoffs easily.

So it's come down to an original six club has to move to a joke division to make us all happy. My god!

 

[Frankie]

Because Steen and Antropov are so much better than Kessel and Lupul.

again, your opinion. i'd agree with this opinion, but the fact is it hasn't translated into an improvement where it counts. the standings.

Your argument only makes sense if you ignore that fact hte rest of hte league has also been improving their teams. Which is what you have apparently decided to do.

but they haven't gotten better. the bar hasn't been raised. some teams get better, some teams get worse. the point total required to make the playoffs has remained largely the same. this is simply something you have created to try to justify your stance.

NO Holland said it takes 10yrs. Not me.

So so are you. I said sit back and quit *****ing. And that is because it is a common thing in this town to toss a GM after a few years because he can't pull the CUp out of his arse on command.

ok, so hollard said it. you quoted him, so i assumed you agreed with him, especially after you told others they should stop judging, be quiet, and let burke do his work.

i'm judging him and have been since day 1. i don't think there's anything wrong with that. you seemed to have a problem with it, in that you told people to sit back and "stop *****ing". so, as long as you agree with the judgement being given, that's ok. if you don't agree, its *****ing and it should be stiffled?

also, its common to toss a gm after a few years because he can't win a cup right away? what leaf gms have been turfed too early? who deserved much more time to do their work?

If you look at where the team is now as opposed to where it was when Burke took over you have to at least give him a few more years. And really what's the rush?
It's been 45yrs what the heck are a few more?

if you feel there's no sense of urgency and really don't care, that's your choice. don't blame others for wanting excellence from this team. some of us really do care and want the leafs to win.

Really? I thought BUrke read the HF boards every day and planned according to what we peons wanted him to do.

when you tell people to "sit back and let burke so his job", that says they are somehow interfering with his job. so yes, you do believe posters on this board impact what he does.

BUt seriously look up my posts. I am far from a blind follower.

yet you've said "standings be damned", and you think your opinion means more than the actual results. yeah, that's really objective.

 

[achtungbaby]

LMAO.

Nice paradox. NOT! !

If runner A can run twice as fast as Runner T, and Runner T starts 100yds ahead of Runner A, at what total distance would Runner A have to run to catch runner T?

There is a mathematical answer. Your paradox is flawed.

If you don't understand what you're talking about, I'd tone down the sarcasm a notch or two. After all, it is better to remain silent...

 

[The Apologist]

Kulemin, Grabovski, Riemer, Gunnarsson, Frattin, Holzer

That group includes 2/3rds of our 2nd line, a top 4 defender and our starting goalie at present, along with our 2 most NHL ready prospects (that were non regulars pre-lockout).. We also had Schenn that was turned into JVR as residual return on the current roster.

Only one of which would really still be considered a 'prospect' which was the point I was making. Thanks for playing.

 

[The Apologist]

Dont even bother arguing with anybody on these boards anymore...whats the point? You can like Brian Burke and the work he has done in Toronto...doesn't make it good. He is the most over-rated executive in hockey. Many people buy his BS. The man is a fraud and I cannot wait until his a$$ gets booted to the curb. What a BUST.

Brian Burke is the Patrick Stefan of General Managers. Fluke cup win in Anaheim does not make this man a competent GM. His work with a real disaster like Toronto shows all you need to know about this man's true abilities. Garbage in garbage out.

You started off with the most sensual point you've ever made here. No point in arguing anymore.

After that the usual nonsense reappears.

 

[KuleminFan41]

again, your opinion. i'd agree with this opinion, but the fact is it hasn't translated into an improvement where it counts. the standings.

So you actually believe Steen and Antropov are better than Lupul and Kessel? I think just about everyone in the hockey world would laugh at that half assed logic .Because they were better in the standings back then? Antropov and Steen were here about 5 years ago. Yes, its already been 5 years since they put on a Leafs uniform , times changed

 

[Mess]

Only one of which would really still be considered a 'prospect' which was the point I was making. Thanks for playing.

A prospect today, or when Burke first arrived in 2008 and most were in their 1st NHL seasons at best or in the system at that time?

 

[CellarDweller0]

Who signed these players to those contracts which hindered the team?

Who said they were a hindrance? There is more to being in being a position to acquire a #1C than to have the money, availability is also a factor. Burke filled out the roster so that the younger players (Leafs were the youngest or 2nd youngest in the league) could play and gain NHL experience and to the older veterans he has given out shorter contracts (see Connolly) allowing him the flexibility to spend during a very good UFA season.

Call me crazy but I would prefer that Burke not allocate cap space and longer term contracts on mediocre UFA's while the younger players were still green.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

I can't be the only one that sees a team nearly ready to take the next step can I? This team had a top 10 offense last year. It has a group of very talented wingers in Kessel Lupul JVR Macarthur Kuliemin and solid bottom 6 guys in brown and Frattin.

sure I'd like to see a guy like clowe brought in to add more size and grit but even if that doesn't happen our wing position is solid.

D wise I think we are also looking OK with Phaneuf, gardiner, liles, gunnar plus Reilley, finn, percy, blacker, and holzer in the pipeline. Again i'd like to see a regehr type brought in to shore up the d and to help cover for Reilley rookie mistakes wheen he gets here but I do believe the d has a bright future.

goal this is the MAJOR problem area but one I believe will be addressed with Luongo once the CBA is done which would take care of 90% of our issues.

Obiviously center is the other issue other then grabovoski who is a solid #2 center our center position needs work good news is we got connolly ,lombardi, macarthur, lupul, steckel all coming off the books and we can buyout komi before 13 14 to free up more space so the money will be there.

Guess my point is this team only needs a couple peices and unlike a lot of teams we aren't tight to the cap so it's doable.

 

[ULF_55]

Lay off the HATER SHEEP comments are you'll be thread banned.

If it gets you too excited take a break.

 

[ULF_55]

So you actually believe Steen and Antropov are better than Lupul and Kessel? I think just about everyone in the hockey world would laugh at that half assed logic .Because they were better in the standings back then? Antropov and Steen were here about 5 years ago. Yes, its already been 5 years since they put on a Leafs uniform , times changed

Steen has nothing to do with Burke.

Steen and Antropov with Kessel and Lupul is much better than Crabb and Steckel with Kessel and Lupul.

 

[hockeyfanz*]

You started off with the most sensual point you've ever made here. No point in arguing anymore.

After that the usual nonsense reappears.

not biting. I said I wouldn't argue. I am well aware of your stance on Burke. So what? Seems to me that all the hard evidence points to Brian as being incompetent. All you ever use is circumstantial evidence to prove that Burkie is in fact competent. Maybe he will make believers out of his "hate-club" when he actually earns it.