Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?

[Michel Beauchamp]

LMAO.

Nice paradox. NOT! !

If runner A can run twice as fast as Runner T, and Runner T starts 100yds ahead of Runner A, at what total distance would Runner A have to run to catch runner T?

There is a mathematical answer. Your paradox is flawed.

Have I ever claimed that Achilles would not ever catch the tortoise?

Don't be so literal-minded.

Enjoy a flight of fancy once in a while.

Like all of Zeno of Elea's paradoxes, it's a nice mind-tickler.

And at you destroying an important part of the human history...

Zeno's arguments are perhaps the first examples of a method of proof called reductio ad absurdum also known as proof by contradiction. They are also credited as a source of the dialectic method used by Socrates.

 

[charliolemieux]

Common mistake on these Boards, looking at the stats rather than the games...

And yet you are slamming me for saying F the standings.

Nice double standard.

Rediculous.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

And yet you are slamming me for saying F the standings.

Nice double standard.

Rediculous.

Don't get paranoid...

Where did I ever say that?

 

[charliolemieux]

Have I ever claimed that Achilles would not ever catch the tortoise?

Don't be so literal-minded.

Enjoy a flight of fancy once in a while.

Like all of Zeno of Elea's paradoxes, it's a nice mind-tickler.

And at you destroying an important part of the human history...

"Reductio ad absurdum" indeed.

You want a mind tickler figure this one out.

A rooster sits on the peak of a roof. On the East side the roof has a pitch of 60 degrees , and the West side has a pitch of 45 degrees. With a wind coming out of hte North West at 15kph , if an egg were laid which side of the roof would it roll down?

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

"Reductio ad absurdum" indeed.

You want a mind tickler figure this one out.

A rooster sits on the peak of a roof. On the East side the roof has a pitch of 60 degrees , and the West side has a pitch of 45 degrees. With a wind coming out of hte North West at 15kph , if an egg were laid which side of the roof would it roll down?

They're called paradoxes and are mind ticklers because you know that they're wrong and you try to figure out how to prove they are.

Your question is in no way, shape or form a paradox.

 

[-DeMo-]

Are 2 PPG forwards my oppinion?

IS haviung to sit established NHL defensemen in the press box due to depth, my oppinion?


My observations are far from just oppinion.

Am I wrong in that other franchises in the Eastern conference had better building
blocks than Toronto did when Burke arrived?

Or is it my oppinion that TBL got Stamkos, and PIT had SID and EM, and WSH has Ovy and Backstrom?

Are these facts my oppinion?

Staal in CAR, Lundqvist in NYR, Spezza in OTT, Miller in BUF are these facts my OPPINION?

NO they are observations. IF you want to hang you hat on stats then why are you ignoring Lupul and Kessel an d the great season they had?

Because you can't be objective. That's why.

where did these teams get these building blocks btw? these teams you listed where all in the same situation we were at one point thats why they got those building blocks. Burke decided he didn't want those type of players and acquired Kessel.

Atlanta/winnepeg has had better ppg players and gone no where what does that prove?

franson is the dmen I assume your talking about and if sitting a #6 dmen is amazing then yea you got me.

if these players are so great why are we finishing 5th last? also saying we have 2 ppg forwards going forward is an opinion we had 2 last year doesn't mean ethier will do it again since it was the first time ethier had done it.

 

[charliolemieux]

2 ppg forwards makes the team better on paper. adding 2 ppg forwards has made you think the team is better. it hasn't actually made the team better. check the standings. there's been no step forward.

Because Steen and Antropov are so much better than Kessel and Lupul.

Your argument only makes sense if you ignore that fact hte rest of hte league has also been improving their teams. Which is what you have apparently decided to do.

sadly for us, the season is longer than 55 games. in the big picture of the full season (and you've encouraged people to look at the big picture), burke's team is actually worse than thte past.

I said you saw "the beginning". As in having two of the top scorers in the league, and actually being in a playoff postition.

if that's what you think, great. adding a time frame adds some credibility to what you're arguing.

So....

you said we should sit back and let him do his job. you said he shouldn't be judged for 10 years. yet you're judging and giving all kinds of opinions on the job he's doing. how is that sitting back and letting him do his job.

NO Holland said it takes 10yrs. Not me.

So so are you. I said sit back and quit *****ing. And that is because it is a common thing in this town to toss a GM after a few years because he can't pull the CUp out of his arse on command.

If you look at where the team is now as opposed to where it was when Burke took over you have to at least give him a few more years. And really what's the rush?
It's been 45yrs what the heck are a few more?

We have no Crosby or Stamkos or Price or Lundqvist, so just what do you expect?

and for the record, nothing we say here prevents him from doing his job in any way.

Really? I thought BUrke read the HF boards every day and planned according to what we peons wanted him to do.

do you think you're objective? you're not biased at all? your love for the leafs doesn't influence your opinions?

I'll put my objectivity against anyones on these boards. Except where it comes to MTL or OTT.

BUt seriously look up my posts. I am far from a blind follower.

 

[-DeMo-]

The players were simply not available at a reasonable price. That will likely change with the new CBA, though, when cap circumventing retirement contracts are no more, and the teams needing to shed salary not being able to drive prices of UFAs up.

there is no reasonable price imo, if there is an opportunity to get an elite #1 C/D/G you give up what ever you have to to get said player.(with the exception of another one of those ie you don't give up Tavares to get Weber) those guys are the hard ones to get the rest can be found later and are cheaper and more readily available.

 

[charliolemieux]

They're called paradoxes and are mind ticklers because you know that they're wrong and you try to figure out how to prove they are.

Your question is in no way, shape or form a paradox.

So you don't know the answer?

LMAO

ROOSTERS don't lay eggs.

A plane with 534 people on board crashes on the US Canadian boarder. Where do you bury the survivors?

 

[charliolemieux]

where did these teams get these building blocks btw? these teams you listed where all in the same situation we were at one point thats why they got those building blocks. Burke decided he didn't want those type of players and acquired Kessel.

Atlanta/winnepeg has had better ppg players and gone no where what does that prove?

franson is the dmen I assume your talking about and if sitting a #6 dmen is amazing then yea you got me.

if these players are so great why are we finishing 5th last? also saying we have 2 ppg forwards going forward is an opinion we had 2 last year doesn't mean ethier will do it again since it was the first time ethier had done it.

Ya these teams got players through drafts. THE Leafs got screwed by the NTC's given to the muskoka 5 and the muddling of ownership during JFJ's reign. Otherwise there would have been a lot more top assets in the system.

I still say the Steen trade screwed Burke more than we could ever have thought at hte time. Ya it was a bad trade but, Steen would be a nice upgrade over Bozak as our #1 C right now.


We also sat Komi, and Finger was in the AHL. It just shows depth.


ATL was unique in that the Heatley accident really hurt them. Money and being somewhere stars wanted to play was another big issue.

 

[-DeMo-]

Because Steen and Antropov are so much better than Kessel and Lupul.

Your argument only makes sense if you ignore that fact hte rest of hte league has also been improving their teams. Which is what you have apparently decided to do.




I said you saw "the beginning". As in having two of the top scorers in the league, and actually being in a playoff postition.


So....

if our two best players are better then the two best players from the past then the other 21 players on the team must be worse. for example Atlanta had Hossa/Kovalchuk at one point putting up 40 g 90 points each and went basically no where. 2 ppg players doesn't make us good. they are also not worse now that they have lost those 2 wingers ethier.

like I've said before in another thread you asked me to prove it and I did the team in the first 60 games last year they put up 1 less point then the final 60 games of the 10-11 season the only difference is the time of the slump. so it gives people the illusion like last year was an improvement when it really wasn't. we lost the 61st game and dropped out of the playoffs.

 

[charliolemieux]

if our two best players are better then the two best players from the past then the other 21 players on the team must be worse. for example Atlanta had Hossa/Kovalchuk at one point putting up 40 g 90 points each and went basically no where. 2 ppg players doesn't make us good. they are also not worse now that they have lost those 2 wingers ethier.

like I've said before in another thread you asked me to prove it and I did the team in the first 60 games last year they put up 1 less point then the final 60 games of the 10-11 season the only difference is the time of the slump. so it gives people the illusion like last year was an improvement when it really wasn't. we lost the 61st game and dropped out of the playoffs.

That only makes sense if hte rest of the league remained static. But they did not. They improved. The Eastern Conf in particular had massive improvement over the past 5 years.

 

[-DeMo-]

Ya these teams got players through drafts. THE Leafs got screwed by the NTC's given to the muskoka 5 and the muddling of ownership during JFJ's reign. Otherwise there would have been a lot more top assets in the system.

I still say the Steen trade screwed Burke more than we could ever have thought at hte time. Ya it was a bad trade but, Steen would be a nice upgrade over Bozak as our #1 C right now.


We also sat Komi, and Finger was in the AHL. It just shows depth.


ATL was unique in that the Heatley accident really hurt them. Money and being somewhere stars wanted to play was another big issue.

Hossa came in and had 2 40 goal 90+ point season's far better then Kessel's production and Kovalchuk was far better then Lupul. yet they went no where.

so because we had 3 #6 dmen that is somehow a good thing? last time I checked Finger wasn't an NHL dmen he passed through waivers and nobody picked him up for free. Komi is a joke not even sure if he's a #6 anymore. thats a brutal argument for how good we are.

 

[-DeMo-]

That only makes sense if hte rest of the league remained static. But they did not. They improved. The Eastern Conf in particular had massive improvement over the past 5 years.

so? did you expect other teams to stay static? it really doesn't matter if the team is better now and if they played this past season's team would have won. what matters is how good you are to your competitors and were clearly falling back.

 

[charliolemieux]

Hossa came in and had 2 40 goal 90+ point season's far better then Kessel's production and Kovalchuk was far better then Lupul. yet they went no where.

so because we had 3 #6 dmen that is somehow a good thing? last time I checked Finger wasn't an NHL dmen he passed through waivers and nobody picked him up for free. Komi is a joke not even sure if he's a #6 anymore. thats a brutal argument for how good we are.

Finger had a 3.5 M cap hit. No body is grabbing that for a #5-6 D-man.
Komi was a top 4 when we signed him. Well more accurately he was a top 4 before Lucic kick the **** out of him.


So with ATL, are you saying it takes more than jsut two good players to win?

Ya....So?

Picture Hossa and Kovy with Bogosian and BYfuglien and Enstrom on hte back end, with Kane and Wheeler as secondary scoring. If they could have held things together they would be decent right now.

Sometimes it takes 10 or more years to build a contender.

 

[charliolemieux]

so? did you expect other teams to stay static? it really doesn't matter if the team is better now and if they played this past season's team would have won. what matters is how good you are to your competitors and were clearly falling back.

BUddy I am the only one taking that fact into consideration.

THe anti Burke people are trotting out standings like they are handed down from god and going "see, see we still suck" well hello.....

Tavares has developed. Stamokos has developed. Sid and Malkin have Developed.

These are all pieces we didn't have.

Now we are catching up, but we still have a ways to go. And teams like NJD are goin g to get help from Larsson. Ottawa will be getting secondary scoring from Mika Z, BUF has a 6'8" 2011 calder winner on the blueline who is going to be fun to play against. MTL just drafted the best center of the 2012 draft to go with Subban and PRice. CAR jsut added J. Staal to go with E.Staal and Skinner. It just keeps going.

This road is not going to get easier. BUt I think Burke has done as good of a job that any GM could have done. Sure there are a few things I would have liked to change but I'll deffer to the Harvard Grad.

 

[-DeMo-]

BUddy I am the only one taking that fact into consideration.

THe anti Burke people are trotting out standings like they are handed down from god and going "see, see we still suck" well hello.....

Tavares has developed. Stamokos has developed. Sid and Malkin have Developed.

These are all pieces we didn't have.

Now we are catching up, but we still have a ways to go. And teams like NJD are goin g to get help from Larsson. Ottawa will be getting secondary scoring from Mika Z, BUF has a 6'8" 2011 calder winner on the blueline who is going to be fun to play against. MTL just drafted the best center of the 2012 draft to go with Subban and PRice. CAR jsut added J. Staal to go with E.Staal and Skinner. It just keeps going.

This road is not going to get easier. BUt I think Burke has done as good of a job that any GM could have done. Sure there are a few things I would have liked to change but I'll deffer to the Harvard Grad.

I can't believe you think no one else could have done better and were not catching up were falling behind as the standings are clearly pointing out.

the pro Burke crowd are throwing out the standings like you just did as if they mean nothing when it actuality they mean more then anything else. points are how your team is measured. 82 games are also an equalizer teams can run hot through 40ish games but it's very hard to fluke through 82. and those 82 game schedules have always got to this team. were not close to a playoff team in an 82 games schedule.

 

[charliolemieux]

I can't believe you think no one else could have done better and were not catching up were falling behind as the standings are clearly pointing out.

the pro Burke crowd are throwing out the standings like you just did as if they mean nothing when it actuality they mean more then anything else. points are how your team is measured. 82 games are also an equalizer teams can run hot through 40ish games but it's very hard to fluke through 82. and those 82 game schedules have always got to this team. were not close to a playoff team in an 82 games schedule.

During a rebuild do you count the standings?

NO you don't.

As much as Burke wants to tell the sheep, and those haters who believe it, he isn't doing a rebuild. But he is.

Think EDM worried about the standings?

Did PIT worry about hte standings?

Give me a break.

The only people that are pissed are those gullible enough to believe the BS Burke puts out for the Chicken LIttles, who see the sky falling at every turn.

Would you be happy IF I were to tell you that the Leafs were going to Ice a Roster that included the following:

2nd over all pick
5th overall pick
7th overall pick
7th overall pick
8th overall pick
9th overall pick
17th overall pick



YOU'd **** a brick you'd be so happy. So why is it that when I put a name to the picks they all suddenly suck?

 

[hotpaws]

Tallon put together a playoff team and a much higher rated prospect pool in a shorter time period than Burke has been here but we still have the Burkie supporters crying to give Burke multiple more seasons .

 

[Mess]

Tallon put together a playoff team and a much higher rated prospect pool in a shorter time period than Burke has been here but we still have the Burkie supporters crying to give Burke multiple more seasons .

MLSE owner Larry Tanenbaum already took out a full page add apologizing for the teams poor performance last season.

No one is more accountable for the team performance than the GM, who has the ultimate responsibility of assembling player and coaching personnel that produces those results.

So it would only be only logical for MLSE to give Burke an extension now in light of the results, as that would certainly show how sincere his apology truly was to Leaf Nation.

Wonder what his next letter is going to say.

 

[charliolemieux]

Tallon put together a playoff team and a much higher rated prospect pool in a shorter time period than Burke has been here but we still have the Burkie supporters crying to give Burke multiple more seasons .

Tallon filled his team with 2nd and 3rd liners to reach the floor to go along with the great prospects he inheritted. He played in a weak division to make the post season. But sur elets use him as a meassuring stick. (Tallon is good btw. but for some reason keeps getting booted before his value is realised. ) Maybe the anti Burker should think about that?

If Versteeg has played in TOR the way he played in FLA he never would have been traded.

Huberdeau and Markstrom are the reason why FLA is rated so high in prospects.

They fluked out on both picks. Ofcourse every year is a fluke when it comes to the draft. Some of you might want to write that down. The Draft is a fluke. Got it? NO? Well go get it. Good.

 

[hotpaws]

Tallon filled his team with 2nd and 3rd liners to reach the floor to go along with the great prospects he inheritted. He played in a weak division to make the post season. But sur elets use him as a meassuring stick. (Tallon is good btw. but for some reason keeps getting booted before his value is realised. ) Maybe the anti Burker should think about that?

If Versteeg has played in TOR the way he played in FLA he never would have been traded.

Huberdeau and Markstrom are the reason why FLA is rated so high in prospects.

They fluked out on both picks. Ofcourse every year is a fluke when it comes to the draft. Some of you might want to write that down. The Draft is a fluke. Got it? NO? Well go get it. Good.

You remind me of a poster now banned who would go around twisting the facts to slag every other GM in the league to defend Burkies pitiful record witht he Leafs .

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

So you don't know the answer?

LMAO

ROOSTERS don't lay eggs.

A plane with 534 people on board crashes on the US Canadian boarder. Where do you bury the survivors?

I won't play your childish game but I could. You're a murderer if you bury the survivors.

 

[Michel Beauchamp]

That only makes sense if hte rest of the league remained static. But they did not. They improved. The Eastern Conf in particular had massive improvement over the past 5 years.

So you're saying that most of the GMs did a better job than Burkie.

OK.

 

[-DeMo-]

During a rebuild do you count the standings?

NO you don't.

As much as Burke wants to tell the sheep, and those haters who believe it, he isn't doing a rebuild. But he is.

Think EDM worried about the standings?

Did PIT worry about hte standings?

Give me a break.

The only people that are pissed are those gullible enough to believe the BS Burke puts out for the Chicken LIttles, who see the sky falling at every turn.

Would you be happy IF I were to tell you that the Leafs were going to Ice a Roster that included the following:

2nd over all pick
5th overall pick
7th overall pick
7th overall pick
8th overall pick
9th overall pick
17th overall pick



YOU'd **** a brick you'd be so happy. So why is it that when I put a name to the picks they all suddenly suck?

when your doing a draft rebuild and development stratigy you don't worry about your standings infact the worst the better but when your GM has put pieces into place he expects to put him in the playoff picture and it fails miserably then yes the standings matter in this situation. Burke has never taken the stance of play the kids and it doesn't matter where we finish attitude. he wants to win and he's trying his best to make the playoffs and failing there's a big difference

as for the picks because most of those players are so far away from there draft that there position is meaningless now that there already in there prime. did you really put Komi in there? I'm actually surprised you didn't put Connolly as he was a 5th overall pick aswell. do you believe that saying Komi was a 7th overall pick makes him somehow better? it's not about the draft position it's about the players you drafted. how many of those were drafted and developed by Toronto? none?