Confirmed with Link: Sheldon Keefe extended 2 years

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The turn around after Babcock was fired. The quality of the players. A forward as a first team all star our first since 1963. The quality of the team. A division win. However, it is really for naught as we are in the same place when it comes to the playoffs as were under Nonis, Lou and now Dubas, but there is more optimism now that we will get over that hump than there was in the past.

I also never got the feeling we were really the better team against the Bruins. Always felt like we were swimming upstream still trying to rely on Andersen to bail us out (which he didnt).

This team just feels more fundamentally sound. No more fire drill in our own end and a feeling like we can come back at any time (like game 4 against Columbus or 5 and 6 against Montreal, both de-railed by stupid individual giveaways).

I really do wish we had a 2017-2018 Andersen in net for us now. Underrated as hell by some hindsight guys around here but his numbers are insane considering the amount of rubber he faced.
 
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It's the never-ending excuses from the same people that is annoying. It's excuse after excuse after excuse.

An excuse can be a conjured illusion by a fan that can't accept reality or it could a legitimate reason to explain what went wrong. There's a lot of this going on from all sides who are already deeply invested in old arguments like "Lou vs. Dubas", etc..

All I know is that it was, well, unhelpful to lose our captain in the first period of the series, our best playoff dman again during the series, our big deadline pickup rendered ineffective by injury and our big line trying to hit double digits in posts instead of double digits in goals (which may have had to do with Matthews wrist needing to be surgically repaired). Putting aside any other arguments, I just think injuries like these play a part in a 7 game series tilting one way or another.
 
Depth (asterisk = ELC)

21-22 Leafs vs 17-18 Leafs

Matthews ----- Matthews*
Marner --------- Marner*
Nylander ------ Nylander*

Tavares ------- Kadri
Bunting ------- Hyman
Ritchie --------- JVR

Kerfoot ------- Bozak
Spezza -------- Marleau
Kase ----------- Brown

Kampf ------- Plekanec
Mikheyev ------ Komarov
Simmonds ------ Martin

Robertson* ------- Kapanen*
Engvall ---------- Johnsson*



Rielly ----------- Rielly
Brodie ---------- Hainsey

Muzzin --------- Gardiner
Holl --------------- Zaitsev

Dermott --------- Dermott*
Liljegren* -------- Polak
Sandin* ----------- Carrick


Campbell ------- Andersen
Mrazek ----------- McElhinney
So what it the point of this? When I mentioned that league minimum castoffs and retreads are now fighting for top 6 jobs under Dubas instead of the team boasting incredible forward depth, your chart just confirms this. I see Bunting and Ritchie on the second line instead of JVR and Hyman, which makes my point. The depth sucks now thanks to Dubas, don't pretend otherwise. When his poor negotiations with Marner and Matthews cost the team Rielly in the offseason it gets even more grim. At least their coach can deliver a television worthy between periods speech that will have zero impact on the outcome. Woo hoo, 2 more years of that.
 
There can be a middle ground in all this.

Forgetting everything else, if Tampa just had our injuries to key players, do they even beat Florida, let alone anyone else? Maybe, with their elite MVP goaltending but it's still something to think about. You can acknowledge injuries played a part in our series right?
...

They won the cup without Stamkos the year before....

And did you see how much cap they had to commit to that "elite MVP goaltending"?
 
So what it the point of this? When I mentioned that league minimum castoffs and retreads are now fighting for top 6 jobs under Dubas instead of the team boasting incredible forward depth, your chart just confirms this. I see Bunting and Ritchie on the second line instead of JVR and Hyman, which makes my point. The depth sucks now thanks to Dubas, don't pretend otherwise. When his poor negotiations with Marner and Matthews cost the team Rielly in the offseason it gets even more grim. At least their coach can deliver a television worthy between periods speech that will have zero impact on the outcome. Woo hoo, 2 more years of that.

Point is I see a team with more upgrades than downgrades - which is pretty damn amazing given the big 3 are no longer on entry level contracts.
 
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Point is I see a team with more upgrades than downgrades - which is pretty damn amazing given the big 3 are no longer on entry level contracts.
I see a team shuffling around its complimentary forwards hoping they will be upgrades on the last group that couldn't advance in the post season.

Which was the same situation as the season before.

Time will tell.
 
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They are not even excuses. It is just whining. Those same people- they don't like the GM, they don't like the coach, they don't like the players, and a few of them don't like the team.
The same people that say keefe was too hard on them and Dubas is too easy. Literally will never please them.
 
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If the reasons for Leafs not advancing are, goaltending, not getting bounces, player X or Y not scoring in great chances or injuries, then the Leafs is not a championship caliber team bc those reasons can apply to every single playoff teams that didn’t advance. Cup champs get it done. TB won without Stamkos the season before and made the playoffs without Kuch last year.
Does it matter if AM and Marner scores 10 pts each in a 7 series lost against the Habs? The Leafs still didn’t advance past the first round.
With all the crap about asking players to play for the logo instead of the name in the back, fans need to do the same.
Collectively, the Leafs just didn’t do enough and need to do more. AM, Marner, Willie, JT, Reilly, and others need to be better than they had shown in the past years in the playoffs or it will be another disappointment. FYI, winning a round is a step forward but not the end goal.
Foligno said it best, we don’t need heroes, we just need to play our roles in esp 5.
AM’s role is to score and if he is not scoring that’s a problem.
MM’s role is to assist and PK, if his linemates are not scoring and getting a penalty while he PK, that’s a problem.
Jumbo’s role is to provide vet presence and leadership, if he is not doing that, that’s a problem.
Players on PP are supposed to generate scoring chances and scores at 1/4 or 1/5 chances but if they are not doing that, it is a problem.
Keefe’s job is to coach and lead the team, if players tune him out, thats a problem.

Lastly, even Cup winning teams will have problems but the difference is Cup winning teams overcome them while other teams couldn’t. That’s why they win the Cup. If the current Leafs want to lead the Leafs to a Cup or two, they need to overcome all obstacles and if they can’t do that, Dubas need to find guys who can.
 
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If the reasons for Leafs not advancing are, goaltending, not getting bounces, player X or Y not scoring in great chances or injuries, then the Leafs is not a championship caliber team bc those reasons can apply to every single playoff teams that didn’t advance. Cup champs get it done. TB won without Stamkos the season before and made the playoffs without Kuch last year.
Does it matter if AM and Marner scores 10 pts each in a 7 series lost against the Habs? The Leafs still didn’t advance to the first round.
With all the crap about asking players to play for the logo instead of the name in the back, fans need to do the same.
Collectively, the Leafs just didn’t do enough and need to do more. AM, Marner, Willie, JT, Reilly, and others need to be better than they had shown in the past years in the playoffs or it will be another disappointment. FYI, winning a round is a step forward but not the end goal.
Foligno said it best, we don’t need heroes, we just need to play our roles in esp 5.
AM’s role is to score and if he is not scoring that’s a problem.
MM’s role is to assist and PK, if his linemates are not scoring and getting a penalty while he PK, that’s a problem.
Jumbo’s role is to provide vet presence and leadership, if he is not doing that, that’s a problem.
Players on PP are supposed to generate scoring chances and scores at 1/4 or 1/5 chances but if they are not doing that, it is a problem.
Keefe’s job is to coach and lead the team, if players tune him out, thats a problem.

Lastly, even Cup winning teams will have problems but the difference is Cup winning teams overcome them while other teams couldn’t. That’s why they win the Cup. If the current Leafs want to lead the Leafs to a Cup or two, they need to overcome all obstacles and if they can’t do that Dubas need to find guys who can.

Tampa with basically the same core missed the playoffs due to injury and no one said it wasnt real..and they also got swept in the first round in maybe the biggest playoff upset in history with the same core and coach and won the cup the next two years.

The key is putting your team in a position to go on a run and the Leafs are in a better position than any time in recent memory. Things have to come together at the right time though. Tampa wasnt the best team this year but when the playoffs hit, they got the goaltending, the timely scoring and stayed healthy enough to take a back to back crown.
 
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...

They won the cup without Stamkos the year before....

And did you see how much cap they had to commit to that "elite MVP goaltending"?

Considering he was the difference in almost every series this year, I'd say money well spent no? I believe he also got that contract after getting embarrassingly swept against Columbus too which shows how forward-thinking Tampa were that he was going to be a great signing. His uncharacteristic poor play that series had little bearing with what he was capable of doing, and that was winning championships for the team.

Considering how important goaltending is, it was nice to see two of the highest paid goalies actually end up the two best goalies of the playoffs and squaring up in the final.
 
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Tampa with basically the same core missed the playoffs due to injury and no one said it wasnt real..and they also got swept in the first round in maybe the biggest playoff upset in history with the same core and coach and won the cup the next two years.

The key is putting your team in a position to go on a run and the Leafs are in a better position than any time in recent memory. Things have to come together at the right time though. Tampa wasnt the best team this year but when the playoffs hit, they got the goaltending, the timely scoring and stayed healthy enough to take a back to back crown.
Five years ago TB missed the playoffs and at that time, I don’t think Point was even drafted, same with Serg(I think).
I think their goalie was still Bishop.
McDonugh was playing with the Rangers.
While Stammer was injured.
Cirelli was in their system,I think.
They got swept three years ago after winning the President Trophy then came back and won back to back.
I think everyone in TB learnt their lessons and improved.
It took them more than lucky bounces or insane goaltending or staying healthy….like I said they overcame all obstacles to become champions.

no doubt the current Leafs one is the best Leafs team in recent memory but it doesn’t mean they are a top team in the league. Leafs recent history is really really bad. Although Leafs might not be a contender, it doesn’t mean they won’t win the Cup or miss the playoffs….as a lot can happen in the season. That’s why I hate the labeling of contenders….it doesn’t matter if the whole World say Leafs is a contender, if they can’t win the Cup, or even advance in the playoffs, it means nothing. Winning the Cup is the only thing that matters.
The players, coaches and everyone involve need to be better or else it will be another disappointment.
 
The turn around after Babcock was fired. The quality of the players. A forward as a first team all star our first since 1963. The quality of the team. A division win. However, it is really for naught as we are in the same place when it comes to the playoffs as were under Nonis, Lou and now Dubas, but there is more optimism now that we will get over that hump than there was in the past.
Some optimism sure but I need to see it before I give them any benefit of the doubt anymore
 
Five years ago TB missed the playoffs and at that time, I don’t think Point was even drafted, same with Serg(I think).
I think their goalie was still Bishop.
McDonugh was playing with the Rangers.
While Stammer was injured.
Cirelli was in their system,I think.
They got swept three years ago after winning the President Trophy then came back and won back to back.
I think everyone in TB learnt their lessons and improved.
It took them more than lucky bounces or insane goaltending or staying healthy….like I said they overcame all obstacles to become champions.

no doubt the current Leafs one is the best Leafs team in recent memory but it doesn’t mean they are a top team in the league. Leafs recent history is really really bad. Although Leafs might not be a contender, it doesn’t mean they won’t win the Cup or miss the playoffs….as a lot can happen in the season. That’s why I hate the labeling of contenders….it doesn’t matter if the whole World say Leafs is a contender, if they can’t win the Cup, or even advance in the playoffs, it means nothing. Winning the Cup is the only thing that matters.
The players, coaches and everyone involve need to be better or else it will be another disappointment.

Bishop is a great goalie sure but a 22 year old Vasy played 50 games for them that year (.917) after Bishop was injured.
Point was breakout rookie (after having to actually assume the role of #1 center due to injuries at one point) scoring 40 points in 68 games
That was a prime Hedman playing that year going almost PPG.
Kucherov went ham of course with 40 goals, 85 points.

Guys that were key cogs of the great Championship teams moving forward: Kucherov, Hedman, Palat, Gourde, Killorn were all the same age or older than Matthews/Marner/Nylander and you are right. They learned and got better going forward.

Yea, Stamkos was hurt along with some other key pieces and almost all people think this was the reason they missed. Being a good team didnt magically shield them from the damage injuries do. They held the course and believed though.

Tampa has built for long term success precisely because they didn't listen to the peanut gallery. Toronto is tied for the 5th most points in the NHL the last half-decade. They are a really good team no matter who was coaching or who is making deals. I think this is going to be a really big year for them, provided they stay healthy of course.
 
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It's the never-ending excuses from the same people that is annoying. It's excuse after excuse after excuse.
Yup. All we have been hearing is that our stars were unlucky and Cary Price was a God…….all the while forgetting that Willy, Spezza and Kerfoots seemed to score against him.
I guess they were just lucky
 
Bishop is a great goalie sure but a 22 year old Vasy played 50 games for them that year (.917) after Bishop was injured.
Point was breakout rookie (after having to actually assume the role of #1 center due to injuries at one point) scoring 40 points in 68 games
That was a prime Hedman playing that year going almost PPG.
Kucherov went ham of course with 40 goals, 85 points.

Guys that were key cogs of the great Championship teams moving forward: Kucherov, Hedman, Palat, Gourde, Killorn were all the same age or older than Matthews/Marner/Nylander and you are right. They learned and got better going forward.

Yea, Stamkos was hurt along with some other key pieces and almost all people think this was the reason they missed. Being a good team didnt magically shield them from the damage injuries do. They held the course and believed though.

Tampa has built for long term success precisely because they didn't listen to the peanut gallery. Toronto is tied for the 5th most points in the NHL the last half-decade. They are a really good team no matter who was coaching or who is making deals. I think this is going to be a really big year for them, provided they stay healthy of course.
TB is the Champs and they should be the measuring stick for all teams.

However, TB might have missed the playoffs 5 seasons ago, and over the past 10 seasons, they didn't qualify three times and didn't advance past the first round TWICE and those 5 years didn't happen in a row. While also appearing in 3 Cups finals and winning two of them and losing two Conf Finals. Their worst stretch were missing playoff for two years and then losing in the first round. After that it is Cup Finals, Conf Finals, missed playoffs, Conf Finals, 1st round exits and two Cup wins.

TB has built for long term success because of a combination of factors, drafting(they always seem to have players even late round picks playing in the WJC and also doing well for their respective countries), developing, trading players to fill holes and also trading players for assets.

Point I am trying to make is that TB didn't go through 5 first round exits with the existing core. (Don't think any Cup teams went through 5 1st round exits in a row with the same core) Also if you look back at that three years stretch, only Hedman and Stamkos were playing in the first year, then Killhorn and Palat joined them the second year and the year they finally made the playoffs again, TJ and Kuch joined the team. Now a lot of that had to do with changing of the old guards. The kept building and changing till they win the Cup.
The thing is Dubas kept moving the supporting pieces around but if the results remain the same then maybe the core is just not the right mix, something will be done about it. Ultimately, Dubas or any MGT job needs to do pull the trigger on a trade or two of the core in order to help the Leafs win the Cup.
 
Point is I see a team with more upgrades than downgrades - which is pretty damn amazing given the big 3 are no longer on entry level contracts.
Upgrades? How about we see them play some meaningful games before we declare that Bunting is an upgrade on Hyman or that Ho Sang is an upgrade on Kapanen. You are reaching pretty hard to be optimistic about your boy Dubas' performance. This team is further away from winning a cup now than they were when Dubas took over with a fistfull of cap space and assets through the wazoo. An expansion team has come much closer on several occasions since. I saw the exact same thing out of Dubas in the Sault: Lots of hype, he was the young wonderboy! He overpaid in negotiations, once surrendering 9 players and picks for a veteran goalie and then missed the playoffs with him. A coach who was big on talk and short on results. Big surprise he's still got that coach for another 2 years, and the goalie followed him here too. This guy is good at one thing and one thing only: convincing people he can run a hockey team. He's a fraud who knows how to network and sell bullshit.
 
Keefe isn't the problem. It is the players. We even got an inside look into the locker room and he had me ready to run through the wall.

Our young guys need to mature and learn from their mistakes. I can't think of many available coaches who would be better than Keefe to do so.

What we gonna do bring in Bruce Boudreau to fire up the boys? Who else would replace him? I can't think of many stud coaching candidates.
 
Upgrades? How about we see them play some meaningful games before we declare that Bunting is an upgrade on Hyman or that Ho Sang is an upgrade on Kapanen. You are reaching pretty hard to be optimistic about your boy Dubas' performance. This team is further away from winning a cup now than they were when Dubas took over with a fistfull of cap space and assets through the wazoo. An expansion team has come much closer on several occasions since. I saw the exact same thing out of Dubas in the Sault: Lots of hype, he was the young wonderboy! He overpaid in negotiations, once surrendering 9 players and picks for a veteran goalie and then missed the playoffs with him. A coach who was big on talk and short on results. Big surprise he's still got that coach for another 2 years, and the goalie followed him here too. This guy is good at one thing and one thing only: convincing people he can run a hockey team. He's a fraud who knows how to network and sell bullshit.

There are many clear upgrades there - Tavares over Kadri, Muzzin/Brodie/Holl over Gardiner/Hainsey/Zaitsev in particular.

There's a couple likely downgrades - Bunting/Ritchie from Hyman/JVR - though even that is left to be seen.

The rest are at worst break even.
 
There are many clear upgrades there - Tavares over Kadri, Muzzin/Brodie/Holl over Gardiner/Hainsey/Zaitsev in particular.

There's a couple likely downgrades - Bunting/Ritchie from Hyman/JVR - though even that is left to be seen.

The rest are at worst break even.
I wouldn’t say your upgrades that you just listed are actually upgrades. We have had no more success then with the guys they replaced. Shouldn’t upgrades make you better ?
 
I see a team shuffling around its complimentary forwards hoping they will be upgrades on the last group that couldn't advance in the post season.

Which was the same situation as the season before.

Time will tell.
Bobby Mac doesn’t think we are as strong this year.
 

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