Sheldon Keefe Discussion Thread

[Ianturnedbull]

Moving on from Dubas was a big deal. Why do fans think that you have to fire everyone, trade all your stars, etc in order to see positive changes?

Do you actually think that Toronto will win the Stanley Cup this year without Marner, Nylander, Matthews, Rielly, Tavares, Keefe, all the Assistant Coaches, all the Scouts, all the AGMs, etc. ?

This is real life. This is not a video game. BT still has to ice a competitive team. This is not a re-build.

I'm sorry if you're angry, but this is really unreasonable.

 

[myleafs]

Not that a change couldn't be made at any time but I imagine the two talked about Trelivings vision for how the team would play going forward and if Keefe buys in, there is no reason not to start the season with him and see how well he executes the vision.

It would be interesting to see if Keefe was just executing Dubas vision. Id like to hear him talk about what his own vision of what he thinks a winning team looks like. Getting away from Dubas may be the best thing that could happen for his coaching career....or not. I guess time will tell.

Same with the core....what if new mandate is put in place and sticking up for your team and yourself is part of that....would these guys change? As an example No flybys is what Tre said so does Nylander turn into WC Nylander now or stay as the pull up king? If I thought these guys could bring that element into their game I would feel better about bringing them back but Im not sure you can change them at this stage...again, time will tell.

Pasternak had Chara Marchand Bergeron to learn from....our guys had Marleau. Could a different philosophy (get away from our pp will be our toughness) make a difference to our boyband members?

 

[hockeyes]

Really disappointed that my suspicion of nothing of significance would be changed going into next year looks to be playing out. I just don't think the big corporate structure is capable of making any hard decisions that would risk a single dime in revenue. I think Dubas was a clown but he was probably right about the bloated governance and decision making process. The Leafs exist solely to generate cash, winning anything is maybe 8 or 9 on the list of priorities.

 

[myleafs]

I'd also imagine Shanny is a factor here too. He wouldn't have hired Treliving if he wasn't ready to continue with Shanny's own vision for the team. And I think by all accounts Shanny seems to like Keefe

Treliving spoke well of Keefe at is initial media introduction, so I'm not super surprised by this news

Like he said....from an outsider looking in he sees a coach who has had great regular season numbers which makes sense and he isnt wrong. So in his view he probably genuinely thinks that he will figure out what is holding the team back when it comes to the playoffs.

Nick Kypreos speculates that the Toronto Maple Leafs might consider former Calgary Flames associate coach Kirk Muller to replace Spencer Carbery as assistant coach for the hockey club.

someone in keefes rearview mirror and someone who can step in if needed is probably not a bad idea

It’s beyond mind boggling.
Toxic soft culture.

I’m not sure whether to root for a scorched earth redo. Or just go:
Matthews 15 mill
Marner 13.3 mill
Nylander 11 mill

…and watch it implode.
Shanny is mid.

or just let the contracts they have now run their course and move on with or without any of them

 

[ShaneFalco]

I'd also imagine Shanny is a factor here too. He wouldn't have hired Treliving if he wasn't ready to continue with Shanny's own vision for the team. And I think by all accounts Shanny seems to like Keefe

Treliving spoke well of Keefe at is initial media introduction, so I'm not super surprised by this news

Maybe he should realize his vision isn't working and instead of bringing in someone who is on the same page, look at someone who has a different approach and let them do their thing
He basically announced the core would be back and Keefe is a good coach before Trev. was hired

 

[myleafs]

Shanny definitely went soft. He has to snap out of his trance or something. No way he believes this is a Stanley Cup team.

well if he is running the team as some claim he is then his trade deadline moves looks like he is figuring it out and is on the right track no?

 

[sunstersun]

Why are we keeping Keefe? He openly sabotaged our best defensive assets. Lilly was a top 2-3 defenceman in the first half of the season, then Keefe worked his magic because of Justin Holl.........

We lacked offensive guys from the blueline outside of Rielly in the playoffs

We basically averaged 2 goals for like 7 straight games and not once did he change up the lines.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

Really disappointed that my suspicion of nothing of significance would be changed going into next year looks to be playing out. I just don't think the big corporate structure is capable of making any hard decisions that would risk a single dime in revenue. I think Dubas was a clown but he was probably right about the bloated governance and decision making process. The Leafs exist solely to generate cash, winning anything is maybe 8 or 9 on the list of priorities.

I've been hearing this from leaf fans for years. If that is what you think then you should cheer for Arizona who make no money at all.

 

[ToneDog]

In what world can the leafs bring back the core and the coach? Like wtf? It hasnt happened yet so Ill reserve my judgement til it happens but if it does then there isnt much more to say is there......doomed I tell ya doomed

I wanted a new GM with fresh set of eyes and ideas. I'm waiting to see what Tre does before predicting doom but giving him one shot with this core is not the worst thing. If they fail, If they choke Tre will be forced to move somebody with 34 and 88's new contracts kicking in next year if the cap remains flat.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I've been hearing this from leaf fans for years. If that is what you think then you should cheer for Arizona who make no money at all.

Oh good I’m glad you got him before I had to lay a can of ass whoop on this ignorant fool. Nobody and I mean NOBODY disrespects Rogers and Bell corporate policies and middle management structure unless they want to face the wrath of Leaf Nation.

 

[myleafs]

I wanted a new GM with fresh set of eyes and ideas. I'm waiting to see what Tre does before predicting doom but giving him one shot with this core is not the worst thing. If they fail, If they choke Tre will be forced to move somebody with 34 and 88's new contracts kicking in next year if the cap remains flat.

Agreed, I can see one more year of fiddling around the edges and I understand why they would do that but I do think if they fail again and why wouldnt they, that Shanny is probably in big trouble. Would be interesting to see how that affects Treliving and his moves moving forward if that happens.

I want to believe he can bring in better secondary players but I just dont see much difference with how much money is wrapped up in the select wrong few. Swapping out several league min players for several other min league players doesnt seem like it would move the needle much if at all. Season just finished but the idea of watching back the same thing next year does not fill me with excitement or hope. I can see missing some games next year for the first time in decades if running it back is what they do.

But ....horse before the cart....its not Oct yet. Things could look much different. (please god)

 

[TMLisSRYinGerman]

How is he still here? Clearly not cup winning material right now.

 

[Suntouchable13]

well if he is running the team as some claim he is then his trade deadline moves looks like he is figuring it out and is on the right track no?

Maybe, but with the core 4 intact you're not winning a thing. Especially with Keefe coaching.

 

[justashadowof]

It's still a little weird to me that a coach whose entire professional and OHL coaching career is tethered to Kyle Dubas is still employed as the team's coach after Dubas has bolted to another NHL organization. Fortunately the coach doesn't have a history of holding years' long grudges or being under the spell of a cult of personality...

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

Moving on from Dubas was a big deal. Why do fans think that you have to fire everyone, trade all your stars, etc in order to see positive changes?

Do you actually think that Toronto will win the Stanley Cup this year without Marner, Nylander, Matthews, Rielly, Tavares, Keefe, all the Assistant Coaches, all the Scouts, all the AGMs, etc. ?

This is real life. This is not a video game. BT still has to ice a competitive team. This is not a re-build.

I'm sorry if you're angry, but this is really unreasonable.

You don’t have to fire or trade everyone, but you should at least fire the GM’s partner in crime who’s shown a complete inability to adapt and adjust and has been outcoached in every playoff series he’s been in.

I personally have little interest in moving any of the “Core Four,” I am adamant however that running it back with them and the head coach is a massive act of cowardice and is just asking to repeat the past two seasons.

 

[Racer88]

well if he is running the team as some claim he is then his trade deadline moves looks like he is figuring it out and is on the right track no?

The teams record was worse after the trade deadline. We were barely a .500 team after the deadline

Moving on from Dubas was a big deal. Why do fans think that you have to fire everyone, trade all your stars, etc in order to see positive changes?

Do you actually think that Toronto will win the Stanley Cup this year without Marner, Nylander, Matthews, Rielly, Tavares, Keefe, all the Assistant Coaches, all the Scouts, all the AGMs, etc. ?

This is real life. This is not a video game. BT still has to ice a competitive team. This is not a re-build.

I'm sorry if you're angry, but this is really unreasonable.

Just running the same thing back again negates the reason for replacing the GM or am I missing something. We have already seen the results of just changing the bit players every year and it’s not pretty

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The teams record was worse after the trade deadline. We were barely a .500 team after the deadline


Just running the same thing back again negates the reason for replacing the GM or am I missing something. We have already seen the results of just changing the bit players every year and it’s not pretty

I can only answer this or comment in Oct. As for now there hasn't been any drafting, UFAs, trades, etc.

 

[the Mighty Oak]

I don't think the new gm wants to fire this bullet yet. He's gonna save it until he knows exactly what he has here and once he does, that's when Keefe will be sacrificed.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I don't think the new gm wants to fire this bullet yet. He's gonna save it until he knows exactly what he has here and once he does, that's when Keefe will be sacrificed.

Who could review this team and extend Keefe
Enough of rewarding failure
Put an interim coach in - send a message

 

[Eternal Leaf]

Treliving is in a tough spot.

Keefe is a terrible playoff coach, which is why Treliving kept referencing his regular-season coaching during his initial interviews. But Treliving doesn't have a sureshot replacement out there compared to last season when Cassidy and Deboer were available.

The only way to outdo bad playoff coaching is to have strong defense and goaltending. Treliving is going to need to work his magic there or this is just going to be a replay of last season (maybe worse).

 

[Menzinger]

Maybe he should realize his vision isn't working and instead of bringing in someone who is on the same page, look at someone who has a different approach and let them do their thing
He basically announced the core would be back and Keefe is a good coach before Trev. was hired

Personally I'd be ok with a coaching change, but I can see from Shanahan's pov why he'd want to avoid too many organizational shakeups this one offseason while trying to get the Matthews extension sorted

 

[al secord]

Sure you can. Blow up this failure of a team because they've proven they can't win shit. You've gotta start over and bring in guys who play winning hockey. A coach that knows how to win.

Until then they're wasting all of our time with this joke of a group.

The Kings board is a couple clicks away. You'll love it there.

 

[weems]

It would be interesting to see if Keefe was just executing Dubas vision. Id like to hear him talk about what his own vision of what he thinks a winning team looks like. Getting away from Dubas may be the best thing that could happen for his coaching career....or not. I guess time will tell.

Same with the core....what if new mandate is put in place and sticking up for your team and yourself is part of that....would these guys change? As an example No flybys is what Tre said so does Nylander turn into WC Nylander now or stay as the pull up king? If I thought these guys could bring that element into their game I would feel better about bringing them back but Im not sure you can change them at this stage...again, time will tell.

Pasternak had Chara Marchand Bergeron to learn from....our guys had Marleau. Could a different philosophy (get away from our pp will be our toughness) make a difference to our boyband members?

Good post and I agree it will be interesting to see Keefe coach sans Dubas.
Was he always coaching 100% the way he saw the game or was it being influenced by Dubas and just how much? How much of some of the player decisions were solely his or was there pressure from inside the front office to play certain players (Holl). Maybe in a perfect world he'd like to be a coach that is very hard on his players but that possibly wouldn't fly before?

Treliving talked about how he wants his teams to play and things like prioritizing checking or no fly bys are definitely not what I would describe strengths of the Leafs the past few years. He's either bringing Keefe back because he thinks he's a good coach that can adapt to coach the style he wants or it's some slick way to keep the coach fired bullet for later on.

 

[ULF_55]

Team is going to soft shoe around Matthews.

One of their biggest players being abused and backing off to let smaller players step in isn't showing a lot of leadership.

Keefe isn't going to change his approach where a new coach might call him out on that. No one is going to address this before a contract is signed.

Of the Triple Doubles Tavares shows the most snarl.

 

[3blizzard4]

So Sheldon had to apologize publicly and go back on his criticism of his players. DUBAS.

putting in an EBUG
Sheldon said it warnt his decision. DUBAS

From the sound of this it appears Dubas had Sheldon by the balls during his tenure here.

If Keefe is indeed coming back then im all for seeing what he’s got with Dubas holding him back.

Maybe Tre will ice a team that will actually succeed in the playoffs under Keefe. This team is lights out during the 82 game pond hockey festival. It’s playoffs or nothing.