Sheldon Keefe Discussion Thread

[Larcos_Unal]

Putting unproven young people in crucial positions is kinda the Leafs identity. Dubas could have done a deep search, interviewed a bunch of candidates, he just gifted the position to his buddy. That's not the way you do business.

Keefe has gotten his lunch handed to him in the last 3 playoffs, has he learned enough on the job to outcoach Cooper this year?

 

[mikeyz]

He's an average coach who was gifted a great team. It's as simple as that.

This

 

[Arzak]

The 11/7 and Holl / Kerfoot stuff writes itself at this point, I think this guy is a complete dumbass.

Worse yet is Marner basically hit 30 mins TOI vs Colorado

We're going into the playoffs, doing 11/7 and loading that TOI on our big guns is a dumb idea. You can probably start rolling those minutes back so they're fresh for the playoffs.

Keefe outcoaching Montgomery. Boston playing their top players for 17-18 min a game lately,that's some 4D chess mind games.


"Bruins will have some tired players in their lineup come playoff time."

Keefe: "Hold my beer.."

 

[mikeyz]

Putting unproven young people in crucial positions is kinda the Leafs identity. Dubas could have done a deep search, interviewed a bunch of candidates, he just gifted the position to his buddy. That's not the way you do business.

Keefe has gotten his lunch handed to him in the last 3 playoffs, has he learned enough on the job to outcoach Cooper this year?

I honestly don’t think he has. And it also doesn’t help that Tampa has the better overall team IMO. Especially in the playoffs. So, that spells disaster for us unfortunately.

 

[Stephen]

Those are certainly some very odd and questionable interpretations of the coach doing really normal things, like:
-Testing out different combinations, situations, and scenarios a month prior to the playoffs in largely meaningless games while we're missing two forwards from our playoff roster
-Testing out a shutdown pairing, like our top defensive team used effectively last year in the playoffs against the exact same team we'll face this year
-Giving our second goalie a game or two when he hasn't played in a while
-Trying to find the best fit and role for one of our versatile depth players
-Justifiably demoting Simmonds, who hasn't seen the ice in over a month and a half, after giving him plenty of opportunities and treating him extremely well

Sure Dekes, “meaningless games” while holding home ice advantage by one point for a playoff matchup that could determine the future of the franchise.

 

[Stephen]

It’s my opinion that if the Leafs had a real NHL capable coach, they wouldn't have lost against CBJ and Montreal in past years.

The worst part about that is Montreal’s coaching was amateur hour. They just clogged up the slot and there was no counter.

 

[andora]

Sure Dekes, “meaningless games” while holding home ice advantage by one point for a playoff matchup that could determine the future of the franchise.

Now are they more or less meaningless than 13 draft slots

 

[LeafSteel]

Sure Dekes, “meaningless games” while holding home ice advantage by one point for a playoff matchup that could determine the future of the franchise.

This is so lost on people it makes my head hurt.

We are in no position to be pissing games away "experimenting".

Keefe cannot outcoach Cooper. He never has, and just with how he is mishandling things since the TDL and the detrimental effect its having on Liljegren shows me he still isn't capable of it.

The only chance he has is to earn home ice advantage and the last change, even with that I am not confident it's enough for him to outcoach Cooper.

Keefe looks like he is directly tying his livelihood to 11-7, along with Kerfoot and Holl. I would have no problem with that as I think it's going to blow up in his face and should end his run as the Leafs Head Coach, but what I hate about that is that it also means another wasted season and playoff futility is more likely than not.

 

[ToneDog]

Sure Dekes, “meaningless games” while holding home ice advantage by one point for a playoff matchup that could determine the future of the franchise.

Tampa Home 24-6-5

Tampa Away 17-16-1

Yup meaningless games.

 

[ShaneFalco]

The worst part about that is Montreal’s coaching was amateur hour. They just clogged up the slot and there was no counter.

Want to stump Keefe - do that

 

[Dekes For Days]

Sure Dekes, “meaningless games” while holding home ice advantage by one point for a playoff matchup that could determine the future of the franchise.

Yes, we are currently playing for the possibility of one extra home game if the series goes an odd number of games.
That obviously doesn't mean you don't try to win, but it's not exactly life or death stakes here. It is also important to figure out the best possible combinations and lineup for game 1 of the playoffs, keep people fresh for the playoffs, prepare the team for different types of situations and adversity, etc.
Not sure the purpose of mischaracterizing some pretty normal stuff that Keefe has done, like play his 2nd goalie sometimes, or make a shutdown pairing. The horror!

 

[Stephen]

This is so lost on people it makes my head hurt.

We are in no position to be pissing games away "experimenting".

Keefe cannot outcoach Cooper. He never has, and just with how he is mishandling things since the TDL and the detrimental effect its having on Liljegren shows me he still isn't capable of it.

The only chance he has is to earn home ice advantage and the last change, even with that I am not confident it's enough for him to outcoach Cooper.

Keefe looks like he is directly tying his livelihood to 11-7, along with Kerfoot and Holl. I would have no problem with that as I think it's going to blow up in his face and should end his run as the Leafs Head Coach, but what I hate about that is that it also means another wasted season and playoff futility is more likely than not.

Experimentation is okay but it’s got have some kind of underlying principle or solve for something and not just be a random combination generator.

Wasn’t it last year that Keefe tried Rielly and Sandin out and scrapped it after a disastrous game? What kind of information were you trying to glean from such a poorly thought out, horrible mismatch of players, neither being utilized or protected properly? You may as well try letting the goalie take the faceoff.

Keefe is so scared of losing he’ll try to bulletproof everything. Like Kampf out to take an OT faceoff because he doesn’t trust $22 million worth of centermen in Matthews and Tavares. Get out of your own head man.

 

[Stephen]

Yes, we are currently playing for the possibility of one extra home game if the series goes an odd number of games.
That obviously doesn't mean you don't try to win, but it's not exactly life or death stakes here. It is also important to figure out the best possible combinations and lineup for game 1 of the playoffs, keep people fresh for the playoffs, prepare the team for different types of situations and adversity, etc.
Not sure the purpose of mischaracterizing some pretty normal stuff that Keefe has done, like play his 2nd goalie sometimes, or make a shutdown pairing. The horror!

You call them meaningless games, I call them pointless experiments. Saw it in half.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Tampa Home 24-6-5[/TD]
[TD]Tampa Away 17-16-1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Yup meaningless games.

Toronto home: 24-7-5
Toronto away: 16-11-4

Yeah just throw games away. The top concern should totally be making sure Gustafsson doesn't get too rusty from sitting out and really tinkering with the defense pairs

 

[ToneDog]

Toronto home: 24-7-5
Toronto away: 16-11-4

Yeah just throw games away. The top concern should totally be making sure Gustafsson doesn't get too rusty from sitting out and really tinkering with the defense pairs

Don't know what effect of losing home ice after holding home ice pretty much most of the season, would be on the team, but guessing it would not be good.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You call them meaningless games, I call them pointless experiments.

Truthfully, it's neither. Both the games and "experiments" are valuable.
But the value we get from the "experiments" is worth more for much more meaningful games than the difference it's going to have on current game outcomes - which is pretty minor.
Literally had to hear all year that the regular season is meaningless, and now we're not allowed to mix things up a little bit to figure out the most ideal lineup for the playoffs once our matchup is already locked in? Come on.

Heck, most of the stuff you mentioned wasn't even "experiments". It's just normal coaching... playing your 2nd goalie occasionally, making a shutdown pairing, waiving players not good enough to play, etc.

Keefe is so scared of losing he’ll try to bulletproof everything. Like Kampf out to take an OT faceoff because he doesn’t trust $22 million worth of centermen in Matthews and Tavares. Get out of your own head man.

Yeah, who wants a coach that actually does things to try and win, am I right? How cringe.
Starting Kampf in OT has worked quite well when they've done it, so it's quite funny that you're now criticizing it.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Toronto home: 24-7-5
Toronto away: 16-11-4

Yeah just throw games away. The top concern should totally be making sure Gustafsson doesn't get too rusty from sitting out and really tinkering with the defense pairs

NHL rookie Tyler Seguin didn't get a lot of TOI with Boston and only played the final 13 of 25 playoff games, he posted 7 points and it really injected some offense into Boston's line up.

Where am I going with this? Gustafsson should be fine sitting out a bit, he's a veteran. Find your 6 and roll with it, that or roll 6D moving forward, give the odd guy a night off.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Don't know what effect of losing home ice after holding home ice pretty much most of the season, would be on the team, but guessing it would not be good.

I'm sure it's fine. These Leafs always respond extremely well to adversity and love rising to face challenges.

But seriously, constructing the ideal lineup to win games so they can roll into playoffs feeling good and have the structure in place should be the goal. I can't believe anyone would want anything else, especially tinkering for hypothetical situations that probably won't even happen

 

[Stephen]

Truthfully, it's neither. Both the games and "experiments" are valuable.
But the value we get from the "experiments" is worth more for much more meaningful games than the difference it's going to have on current game outcomes - which is pretty minor.
Literally had to hear all year that the regular season is meaningless, and now we're not allowed to mix things up a little bit to figure out the most ideal lineup for the playoffs once our matchup is already locked in? Come on.

Heck, most of the stuff you mentioned wasn't even "experiments". It's just normal coaching... playing your 2nd goalie occasionally, making a shutdown pairing, waiving players not good enough to play, etc.

Yeah, who wants a coach that actually does things to try and win, am I right? How cringe.
Starting Kampf in OT has worked quite well when they've done it, so it's quite funny that you're now criticizing it.

So you’re saying Kampf gives us a better chance to win than Matthews or Tavares to start OT? I don’t know if you realize how bad of an implication that actually is, when the coach doesn’t trust the Big 4 like that.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Don't know what effect of losing home ice after holding home ice pretty much most of the season, would be on the team, but guessing it would not be good.

Just so we're all clear, Toronto has gained 3 points on Tampa over the past 10 games.

I'm sure it's fine. These Leafs always respond extremely well to adversity and love rising to face challenges.

So... the argument is that the Leafs respond poorly to adversity and challenges... so we should never put them in challenging situations or make them face adversity to overcome that, and just hope it works out when they face adversity in the playoffs?

So you’re saying Kampf gives us a better chance to win than Matthews or Tavares to start OT?

I'm saying the team seemed to be getting into their heads and we kept losing OT early on like the first shot against, so the coach switched things up and tested something different out. It put us in a situation where we had a good faceoff person that could defend well if we didn't get possession, and change for one of the big guns if we did. And it worked! And yet you're still here blasting the decision months later.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Just so we're all clear, Toronto has gained 3 points on Tampa over the past 10 games.

So... the argument is that the Leafs respond poorly to adversity and challenges... so we should never put them in challenging situations or make them face adversity to overcome that, and just hope it works out when they face adversity in the playoffs?

Isn't trying to win a playoff series against Tampa enough of a challenge? Why would you want them to lose home ice to put them in a much more difficult position just for the sake of providing them an extra challenge to overcome?

 

[Stephen]

Don't know what effect of losing home ice after holding home ice pretty much most of the season, would be on the team, but guessing it would not be good.

Rain or shine they always show up to be the second best team in an elimination moment, so I’m not worried they’ll just flat out melt down.

But I am quite sick and tired of people who diminish every ingredient the Leafs don’t have, scoff at every failed opportunity to show growth, wave off every advantage they manage to piss away as a nothing burger and make excuses for poor roster decisions in the process.

Let’s be very clear. The Leafs are not a championship caliber team. They are trying to be a championship caliber team. And you can’t wave off every misstep and expect them to flip a switch and win the race.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Isn't trying to win a playoff series against Tampa enough of a challenge? Why would you want them to lose home ice to put them in a much more difficult position just for the sake of providing them an extra challenge to overcome?

I don't want to lose home ice, and we're not losing home ice. We've gained points on Tampa over our past 10 games, and the extent to which these minor changes impact our outcomes has been wildly exaggerated. Yes, the playoffs are a challenge, especially when you're facing the best teams in the league, so if the argument is that they struggle with adversity and challenge, I don't know why you'd rather shield them from any adversity or challenge until the playoffs instead of letting them battle through adversity in less consequential games.

 

[leafsfan5]

I understand experimenting, but we should lock in an idea of what we want the lines to be relatively soon so these guys can become accustomed to their defensive partners. It feels like every other game McCabe is playing with someone new and he's only been here for 2 weeks

The forwards are a bit more difficult in this aspect since we're adding ROR + Knies towards the end of the year. Hopefully they can come in with like ~6 games or so and get some time to gel

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

I don't want to lose home ice, and we're not losing home ice. We've gained points on Tampa over our past 10 games, and the extent to which these minor changes impact our outcomes has been wildly exaggerated. Yes, the playoffs are a challenge, especially when you're facing the best teams in the league, so if the argument is that they struggle with adversity and challenge, I don't know why you'd rather shield them from any adversity or challenge until the playoffs instead of letting them battle through adversity in less consequential games.

I don't want to shield them from any/all adversity and I know that's impossible. I was specifically talking about the added adversity from losing home ice and arguing that it would be a problem for the Leafs to deal with, and you seemed to disagree with that concept by suggesting they need more adversity for whatever reason. Frankly I think the Leafs have been through enough and should understand what dealing with adversity is like by now