Speculation: Sharks Roster Discussion Part 2

[Tkachuk4MVP]

To me Couture vs Duchene is a great example of grass is greener on the other side. Stylistically similar players but both are good offensively and defensively. Ages are similar as well. I would rather keep Couture because he has contributed both with and without good linemates. If it was a 1-on-1 trade, I may consider it. But honestly, even then I would most likely keep Couture.

Agreed. Plus I think Couture's IQ is higher and he will be less reliant on pure talent as he gets older.

 

[Mattb124]

Okay, so let's talk about our bottom-6.

Obviously Meier - Tierney - Ward had a good game yesterday, what's the concensus there? Do we feel that line is sustainable or simply lucky? If they can recreate their success, that would reduce our need for a scoring LW and allow Hertl to slot back in with the Joe's.

Likewise, how do we feel about the 4th line of Haley - Wingels - Karlsson. It has been solid of late. Producing good zone time, being heavy on pucks and doing a good job keeping players to the outside. What is the general take on using that skeleton into the play-offs? Maybe slotting in Donskoi with Couture and switching out Haley/Wingels for Boedker.

If we build under the assumption of Meier - Tierney - Ward working, I think something like this might be fairly successful:

Hertl - Jumbo - Pavs
Marleau - Couture - Labanc
Meier - Tierney - Ward
Karlsson - Boedker - Donskoi

I personally think we need a 3C and we are set - hopefully a quantity for quality type trade. That will push Tierney to 4C where he is better suited.

Haley will only be a thing until the playoffs, and then we will not see him again barring a number of forward injuries.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Okay, so let's talk about our bottom-6.

Obviously Meier - Tierney - Ward had a good game yesterday, what's the concensus there? Do we feel that line is sustainable or simply lucky? If they can recreate their success, that would reduce our need for a scoring LW and allow Hertl to slot back in with the Joe's.

Likewise, how do we feel about the 4th line of Haley - Wingels - Karlsson. It has been solid of late. Producing good zone time, being heavy on pucks and doing a good job keeping players to the outside. What is the general take on using that skeleton into the play-offs? Maybe slotting in Donskoi with Couture and switching out Haley/Wingels for Boedker.

If we build under the assumption of Meier - Tierney - Ward working, I think something like this might be fairly successful:

Hertl - Jumbo - Pavs
Marleau - Couture - Labanc
Meier - Tierney - Ward
Karlsson - Boedker - Donskoi

I have a couple of problems with that roster. That 3rd line would get destroyed against the likes of the HBK line on the Pens. Besides, I don't really want Ward or Tierney on the 3rd line.

Only way I would be ok moving Hertl to the top line is if we end up getting a legit 3rd C. Not a fan of Hanzal but someone like him who can handle tough matchups and also add a bit of scoring would work. If not, I would ice:

Marleau-Jumbo-Pavs
Labanc-Couture-Donskoi
Meier-Hertl-Boedker
Ward-Tierney-Karlsson

I totally see us making a move at the TDL to add some scoring.

 

[spintheblackcircle]

I really don't want us to trade picks or prospects this year. Who knows what's happening next year with Jumbo and Patty? Just ride the season out with who is there now. They were good enough to reach the finals next year, and on paper, there is no reason to mortgage the future, IMO.

The chance exists they lose Jumbo and/or Patty next year. They need all the assets they have if they have to replace their goals and assists.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I really don't want us to trade picks or prospects this year. Who knows what's happening next year with Jumbo and Patty? Just ride the season out with who is there now. They were good enough to reach the finals next year, and on paper, there is no reason to mortgage the future, IMO.

The chance exists they lose Jumbo and/or Patty next year. They need all the assets they have if they have to replace their goals and assists.

I am looking at mainly trading picks or dispensable players to get some kind of middle-6 scoring. Not any of our top prospects.

 

[Juxtaposer]

In any case, according to Avs fans on the trade forum, three different media sources, including their old beat writer (Dater), along with McKenzie and Friedman have all said that the single key thing that the Avs will be judging any trade offer on is the D-man or D prospect that is the centerpiece of the trade. This isn't a situation where we'd be able to do quantity for quality, or give them quality at other positions. Why would they want even a Meier or Goldobin as the most valuable piece for Duchene or Landeskog? Even if Meier/Goldobin/etc. have a potential higher ceiling (and I'm not saying they do), why would Colorado take a couple magic beans over proven performers?

Simply put, we don't have what they want. Look at who they were demanding from Boston for Landeskog (Zboril + DeBrusk + Morrow + 2017 1st). We don't have ANYONE in the system that matches what they want. Mueller sure as hell isn't that, 1st round pick or not. Maybe, just maybe, Roy would have been that if he hadn't been injured, but as it is, there's no chance. Much as we may love us some Joakim Ryan, he has slightly less trade value than the Hanifins, Sergachevs, etc. in the world...

So sure, it'd be nice to get Duchene or Landeskog, especially Duchene. But unless we're planning on offering Vlasic or something equally silly, it's not happening.

Is this post even necessary? I specifically said 'extremely unlikely, only even remotely plausible if Colorado strikes out on Hanifin/Sergachev/whichever top young D'.

Okay, so let's talk about our bottom-6.

Obviously Meier - Tierney - Ward had a good game yesterday, what's the concensus there? Do we feel that line is sustainable or simply lucky? If they can recreate their success, that would reduce our need for a scoring LW and allow Hertl to slot back in with the Joe's.

Likewise, how do we feel about the 4th line of Haley - Wingels - Karlsson. It has been solid of late. Producing good zone time, being heavy on pucks and doing a good job keeping players to the outside. What is the general take on using that skeleton into the play-offs? Maybe slotting in Donskoi with Couture and switching out Haley/Wingels for Boedker.

If we build under the assumption of Meier - Tierney - Ward working, I think something like this might be fairly successful:

Hertl - Jumbo - Pavs
Marleau - Couture - Labanc
Meier - Tierney - Ward
Karlsson - Boedker - Donskoi

Why are we still on about Hertl as the top LW?? We have two LWs proven to work on the Thornton line: Marleau and Meier. Hertl should be 3C, end of story.

Meier-Tierney-Ward is passable while Hertl is injured. Meier helps Tierney's possession game a lot, but Ward is just on a hot streak.

And also... Boedker is like literally the only forward we have that can't play center??

 

[Sharksrule04]

I never really liked Rantanen, I always wanted Barzal. But even with the Rantanen example, the bulk of those games were played last year when he was a year younger (and when Meier was still in junior). The only fair comparison is between Rantanen and Meier's production this season and clearly Rantanen laps the field with him. So, I am not sure I am the one who "doesn't know anything about hockey."

Nah you just cherry pick anything to fit your agenda and have "no but's" for any evidence people provide against it. It's cool though, once Meier starts producing more and then you don't have stats to back up your disliking of a player, we'll find something else for you to be wrong about.

 

[Sharksrule04]

If Goldobin can come in and produce, we won't need Meier in the playoffs. Meier has had his opportunities (and no **** - when you play with the Joes you get tougher matchups and opposing defensemen, big deal the tradeoff is more than worth it for him) and failed. If Goldobin can succeed in the same situations then Meier can wait until next season for his next shot.

I've said all along we need two of the kids to break through and establish themselves in order for this team to be a true contender (much like the Pens had Sheary and Rust). Labanc has done so. Meier hasn't. Let's see if Goldobin can.

BTW to use your own reasoning against you, Goldobin in the year which he was the same age as Meier is now (last season) played 10 games in the NHL and scored 1 goal, and I know some of that time was spent with the Joe's. While both were in the AHL this season I'd say Meier was producing as well as Goldobin if not better, especially after the first few games of coming back from sickness.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

Labanc-Thornton-Pavelski
Marleau-Couture-Ward
Boedker-Hertl-Donskoi
Karlsson-Tierney-Wingels

 

[Painful Quandary]

Labanc-Thornton-Pavelski
Marleau-Couture-Ward
Boedker-Hertl-Donskoi
Karlsson-Tierney-Wingels

I'd keep the Captain's Line together and I like Lebanc and Couture playing together, but I like how our team looks when everybody is healthy.

 

[Pinkfloyd]

I'd keep the Captain's Line together and I like Lebanc and Couture playing together, but I like how our team looks when everybody is healthy.

I'm only doing that because Couture needs a couple wingers that can take draws and Labanc needs a shot in the arm and get going.

 

[hohosaregood]

I want:

Meier-Thornton-Pavelski
Marleau-Couture-Labanc
Boedker-Hertl-Donskoi
Karlsson-Tierney-Ward
Carpenter

I think Meier's earned a spot for the most part. Donskoi doesn't seem to work with Couture and Labanc and I think it's because they don't really have a good forecheck/board person on that line so maybe Marleau can do that again since he's at least doing that better than last year...but that doesn't really explain why Boedker usually works with Couture-Labanc.

 

[Painful Quandary]

I'm only doing that because Couture needs a couple wingers that can take draws and Labanc needs a shot in the arm and get going.

I see, and can definitely agree Couture needs some help with faceoffs. I think the grind of the season may be getting Lebanc, not uncommon with rookies; I think he will be fine with some time.

 

[hohosaregood]

I guess what could end up happening is giving Couture the Marleau treatment and move him to LW full time but that does jack diddly for our center depth and I find it generally unlikely to happen.

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Couture-Hertl-Labanc
Meier-Tierney-Donskoi
Boedker-Carpenter-Karlsson

 

[Juxtaposer]

I guess what could end up happening is giving Couture the Marleau treatment and move him to LW full time but that does jack diddly for our center depth and I find it generally unlikely to happen.

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Couture-Hertl-Labanc
Meier-Tierney-Donskoi
Boedker-Carpenter-Karlsson

I personally love the idea of moving Couture to LW, but obviously that would only happen if we managed to acquire another good center. The idea of Couture on Hertl's wing makes me feel things.

 

[Sideshow Raheem]

Duchene is way better than Couture.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Jux made a thread on the trade forum about us needing a scoring winger. Someone offered:

Stepan + Zuccarello
for
Couture, Bergman, cap dump

I think I would do that. What do you guys think?

 

[hohosaregood]

Zuc is stupid good so probably.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

Zuc is stupid good so probably.

That was my exact feeling too. Either Hertl or Stepan would work well as #2/#3C so that helps too.

 

[hohosaregood]

bernmeister's new obsession with Bergman is weird though.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

bernmeister's new obsession with Bergman is weird though.

Yah. I did not get it. But I did not question that either. LOL.

We have better D prospects than him on our roster. Surprised he went for Bergman.

 

[Fistfullofbeer]

I just have a feeling that we flip Goldobin + pick(s) for something this TDL. Probably a RFA scoring winger.

 

[Juxtaposer]

Jux made a thread on the trade forum about us needing a scoring winger. Someone offered:

Stepan + Zuccarello
for
Couture, Bergman, cap dump

I think I would do that. What do you guys think?

Yes. Because:

Zuc is stupid good so probably.

I love Zucc. He's basically what I dream of Donskoi being. He's really, really good. If we got Stepan and Zucc for Couture, Bergman, and a cap dump... man....

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Zuccarello-Stepan-Meier (Meier would fill the Kreider role)
Donskoi-Hertl-Labanc
Ward-Tierney-Boedker

bernmeister's new obsession with Bergman is weird though.

He gets fixated on certain players and overvalues them to the extreme. For the Sharks it's Hertl and Bergman. He's also obsessed with Seth Jones, Noah Hanifin, and Nate Mackinnon, just to put some big names out there, but there are some guys like Bergman he loves too for no apparent reason.

Yah. I did not get it. But I did not question that either. LOL.

We have better D prospects than him on our roster. Surprised he went for Bergman.

At this point, I think it's arguable that Bergman is our best D prospect. It's hard for me to consider Heed, Mueller, or Ryan "prospects" at this point (if Mueller is even better, which I'm not convinced of) and Roy can't stay healthy.

I just have a feeling that we flip Goldobin + pick(s) for something this TDL. Probably a RFA scoring winger.

RFA wingers that I'd trade Goldobin+ for:

Palat, Toffoli, Niederreiter, Pastrnak, Drouin, Teravainen, Burakovsky, Janmark, Arvidsson, end list.

Toffoli is going nowhere, Nino is going absolutely nowhere (he's probably the Wild's best skater), Pastrnak should be going nowhere (but you know how Boston handles their young superstars), Drouin is untouchable now (shocking that he became this good!), Teravainen is fitting in on his new team and should be a fixture there, Burakovsky is on a contending team, and Nashville 100% knows the value of Arvidsson and wouldn't entertain trading him.

That leaves Palat (team also needs to sign Johnson, Drouin, Boyle, Nesterov, and maybe Bishop, plus they're in a pinch for the expansion draft; trading Palat for Goldobin would allow them to protect Killorn) and Janmark (who is good but has been injured all season so who knows when he'll be back and what he'll look like when he's back).

Honestly, if we're trading Goldobin+ for an RFA winger, Palat makes a lot of sense. I would also look at Killorn off of Tampa, but I dunno if I'd trade Goldobin+ for him.

 

[ScottyDont]

http://www.mercurynews.com/2017/01/...g-wilson-do-a-deal-before-nhl-trade-deadline/

Apparently our offense isn't a concern...

 

[Vaasa]

Labanc-Thornton-Pavelski
Marleau-Couture-Ward
Boedker-Hertl-Donskoi
Karlsson-Tierney-Wingels

I would love to see Ward gone, and Wingels as 13th forward or gone (both for cap space to bring up some youngsters and to hopefully make a move).

If Goldobin can come up and play effectively on the RW of either the Couture or Hertl lines, that would be perfect. And as a playmaking RW he should fit with those goal-scorers.

I would then like to get a skilled young guy with at least a bit of experience to play with Hertl on the LW in the line-up below. Tatar maybe, or someone like him. Young, but with some experience, expiring contract but RFA, and even better if he might work well with Hertl (Tatar is Slovak while Hertl is Czech, but I would hope that at least speaks the others language).

But if that doesn't work out I wouldn't mind trying Karrlson as 3LW and trying Goodrow at 4RW before the TDL to see how things work. Since Goodrow has shown a bit more offense, has some NHL experience, and might supply that "toughness" that DeBoer seems to love in Haley. Or even possibly put O'Regan on that 4th line as RW/C with Tierney at either C or wing.

But I really want to see this team by 4 lines deep with some offensive skill on all 4 lines and not too many offensive black-holes or defensive trainwrecks.

So the lineup would look very roughly like this:

Marleau-Thornton-Pavelski
Labanc-Couture-Donskoi
(Tatar)??-Hertl-Goldobin
Boedker-Tierney-Karlsson / Goodrow / O'Regan

Wingels (possibly traded)