Value of: Shane Pinto for a top-4 RHD.

[Golden_Jet]

I’m a Senators fan. Always have been. post history is there.

That being said, I am able to see through my biases and be realistic. Senators have one top-4 right shot defender. You need more than that to Contend for a playoff spot.

Pinto is expendable, and you have to give to get anyway. He has also been disappointing and his two-way game have been greatly exaggerated.

I have the “parody“ there to not confuse anyone.

I’m literally stealing his name and likeness on a hockey messaging board. I’m covering my bases.

No your not, you’ve never visited the Sens forum.

 

[TS Quint]

Now I know this is a troll account. Parody is right.

He's 3rd in NHL goal scoring among rookies, with 18, behind Johnston with 21 and Beniers with 19.

They wouldn't make him available for Chychrun so why on Earth would they trade him for someone else?

if you don’t cover one eye….

He’s also 13th in rookie P/GP (20+GP)
8th Rookie points overall (20+GP)
12th in rookie assists (20+GP)
4th in Rookie Average TOI (20+GP)

its an ok but definitely not a great rookie year for a 22 year old. Let’s not try too hard to shoe horn him in with Beniers.

 

[SpezDispenser]

It's not like they are deep in centres. D is deeper.

In theory we're deep with Ridley Greig as well, but, yeah, no way we're trading Shane Pinto or Greig - both of whom I think Arizona wanted in the Chycrun trade. Plus, Norris has issues that I hope he'll bounce back on, but nothing like having a young kid getting his reps in this year to fill in down the line if need be.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Have you thought about Severonsen as a RH Dfor Pinto?

We don’t know as OP is not a Sens fan, but opens a new thread daily about them.

if you don’t cover one eye….

He’s also 13th in rookie P/GP (20+GP)
8th Rookie points overall (20+GP)
12th in rookie assists (20+GP)
4th in Rookie Average TOI (20+GP)

its an ok but definitely not a great rookie year for a 22 year old. Let’s not try too hard to shoe horn him in with Beniers.

Your the only one in thread that has mentioned Beniers, so you’d be the only one shoe-horning , since Beniers name has never been mentioned.

 

[Petes2424]

Our 3rd line could have been Paul - Pinto - Brown which would have been hell to play against and great for Pinto development. Unfortunately Pierre Dorion and DJ Smith are the guys in charge

But to be fair Norris injury didn't help the Sens/Pinto

Still very easy to see how much of a quality player he will be. This thread is the "poster boy" of the average fan evaluating players with hockeydb.com



This should be a sufficient answer



That was the narrative for Brannstrom, among others



He's still an easily projectable player, it would be stupid to trade him unless it really makes the team better

Just think over the last couple of years on these boards, how many young players were called busts because they didn’t show elite play in the NHL at a really young age. Especially Dmen and big Cs. Too many people think it’s like the NFL or NBA…. Or a video game.

Look at the crap a kid like Rasmussen took on here. He’s what, 22-23 and become a really good NHL player. So maybe Brannstrom was probably a little overrated but he’s just hitting the age we should see a nice jump in his play. Bernard-Docker is another one. He’s only 22 but considered a bust by many.

This year Byfield, Pinto, Clarke and Edvinsson are 4 great examples. Hell, add Bernard-Docker in there. The latter two are just turning 20.

Anyone who has watched Edvinsson the last week (in the NHL) would be insane in attempting to say there’s nothing really special there. What’s comical is you will still have people freak out, trying to say there’s something wrong with him, if he’s scratched or sent back to Grand Rapids because Detroit doesn’t want him playing more than 9 games and burning an ELC year.

Whether it’s a patience thing or just unrealistic expectations, or a little of both. Pinto is a big C right on schedule. His D play will come along and by the time he’s 24 he will be a beast to play against.

We shall see with Byfield and Clarke. Just because Clarke wasn’t ready to play in the NHL at 19, and Byfield isn’t a dominating force, doesn’t mean they won’t be rather soon.

We can argue about some decisions made regarding development teams make… like I think Byfield should have spent the entire year in the AHL playing C, but to call them busts or to suggest their team should give up on them is crazy.

 

[NyQuil]

Your the only one in thread that has mentioned Beniers, so you’d be the only one shoe-horning , since Beniers name has never been mentioned.

I mentioned him because he has 1 more goal than Pinto.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

if you don’t cover one eye….

He’s also 13th in rookie P/GP (20+GP)
8th Rookie points overall (20+GP)
12th in rookie assists (20+GP)
4th in Rookie Average TOI (20+GP)

its an ok but definitely not a great rookie year for a 22 year old. Let’s not try too hard to shoe horn him in with Beniers.

No one is doing that, lmao. You always come in these threads and make these transparent, bad faith arguments, and I've never seen it go well for you.

 

[Hale The Villain]

Why not better your chances at moving the puck out with more top-4D like the Avs do with Makar, Byram, Toews, and Girard.

We can do that without paying Chabot 8M to be our 3rd best LD and 2nd/3rd best PP QB.

Brannstrom has done very well this year playing in a 3rd pairing role and he transports the puck very efficiently.

If the Sens could deal Pinto for a top 4 defensive RD (eg. Carlo) and deal Chabot for forward help, those two swaps could make a lot of sense.

Sanderson - Zub
Chychrun - Carlo
Brannstrom - JBD

 

[Golden_Jet]

I mentioned him because he has 1 more goal than Pinto.

I quoted TS_Quint

 

[NyQuil]

I quoted TS_Quint

You said he was the only one who brought up Beniers, when I’m the one who brought him up because they are comparable goal scorers this season.

 

[TS Quint]

We don’t know as OP is not a Sens fan, but opens a new thread daily about them.


Your the only one in thread that has mentioned Beniers, so you’d be the only one shoe-horning , since Beniers name has never been mentioned.

Reading is hard eh?

No one is doing that, lmao. You always come in these threads and make these transparent, bad faith arguments, and I've never seen it go well for you.

So focus on one stat that puts him near the top of a category but ignore the body of work? Ok gotcha.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

So focus on one stat that puts him near the top of a category but ignore the body of work? Ok gotcha.

Haha, and another one!

No one said that. You are making up arguments to be mad at, but that is the only place they exist.

 

[NyQuil]

So focus on one stat that puts him near the top of a category but ignore the body of work? Ok gotcha.

The most important stat pertains to his body of work which is 89 GP.

Jumping to conclusions at this point is laughable.

 

[dirtydanglez]

what about pinto for liljegren

 

[Golden_Jet]

what about pinto for liljegren

Senators pass

 

[LeProspector]

No your not, you’ve never visited the Sens forum.

Not as much as I used to but it is pretty easy to disprove this claim.

If you go to the Senators board, bring up the search bar, hit settings then change “everywhere” to “this fourm” then search my username under the “member” you’ll see I have been posting there for years.

I’m sharing my opinion on the current state of the team, and it seems I’m in the minority and have been getting personal attacks lobed at me left and right.

 

[LeProspector]

You should have told Tampa that when they kept going to the Cup finals with only one top-4 right shot defender.

Assen na yo!

I don’t think that Ottawa is one t-4 RHD away from a championship but I get where you’re coming from.

I guess I’m just old school in that I have to have 3 right and 3 left D.

 

[Golden_Jet]

View attachment 675228
Not as much as I used to but it is pretty easy to disprove this claim.

If you go to the Senators board, bring up the search bar, hit settings then change “everywhere” to “this fourm” then search my username under the “member” you’ll see I have been posting there for years.

I’m sharing my opinion on the current state of the team, and it seems I’m in the minority and have been getting personal attacks lobed at me left and right.

Opening night congrats

 

[Xspyrit]

Just think over the last couple of years on these boards, how many young players were called busts because they didn’t show elite play in the NHL at a really young age. Especially Dmen and big Cs. Too many people think it’s like the NFL or NBA…. Or a video game.

Look at the crap a kid like Rasmussen took on here. He’s what, 22-23 and become a really good NHL player. So maybe Brannstrom was probably a little overrated but he’s just hitting the age we should see a nice jump in his play. Bernard-Docker is another one. He’s only 22 but considered a bust by many.

This year Byfield, Pinto, Clarke and Edvinsson are 4 great examples. Hell, add Bernard-Docker in there. The latter two are just turning 20.

Anyone who has watched Edvinsson the last week (in the NHL) would be insane in attempting to say there’s nothing really special there. What’s comical is you will still have people freak out, trying to say there’s something wrong with him, if he’s scratched or sent back to Grand Rapids because Detroit doesn’t want him playing more than 9 games and burning an ELC year.

Whether it’s a patience thing or just unrealistic expectations, or a little of both. Pinto is a big C right on schedule. His D play will come along and by the time he’s 24 he will be a beast to play against.

We shall see with Byfield and Clarke. Just because Clarke wasn’t ready to play in the NHL at 19, and Byfield isn’t a dominating force, doesn’t mean they won’t be rather soon.

We can argue about some decisions made regarding development teams make… like I think Byfield should have spent the entire year in the AHL playing C, but to call them busts or to suggest their team should give up on them is crazy.

Some fans just can't properly assess hockey players natural ability and how it could translate to the NHL

Tage Thomson is also a prime example of what you are talking about

It's not like they are deep in centres. D is deeper.

Tim Stutzle 1.16 PPG, turned 21 y/o in January
Josh Norris, paced for 43 goals at 22 y/o while being excellent defensively
Shane Pinto
Ridly Greig
Etc

 

[TS Quint]

Haha, and another one!

No one said that. You are making up arguments to be mad at, but that is the only place they exist.

It's hard to communicate with you when you read at a below hockey board level.

 

[jbeck5]

What the hell, you literally just made my point. Defensemen are worth more then 30-35 C's.

Top 4 D are even more rare then bottom pair left handed D like Sandin so the price to get them is even more then a 1st in draft pick currency.

You're calling him a 20 goal-35 point center because that's what hes getting as a rookie?

How many centers put up 20 goals and 35 points in their rookie year while being a defense first centers? He's doing something like 95% of NHL centers can't do when they enter the league. Why would they trade him to get a 5th defenseman? (Ottawa already has 4 legit top 4 d)

Sens fans crowed to no end about how pinto was going to be better than caufield when they were both in the NCAA, now it's trolling to suggest pinto scoring 30 points in 71 games is disappointing? Never change sens fans (unlike your goalposts for evaluating players).

No, they said Pinto's offense will be within 10-15 points of Caufield while projecting to be much better defensively. Pinto won colleges selke trophy. Defensively, they are nowhere close. So the idea was, if Pinto can't keep his offense close enough to Caufield, he could be the more valuable player being better defensively, bigger and stronger and more physical while producing close enough offense.

 

[jbeck5]

Sure, just like it would be a sensible take for someone to prefer Arber Xhekaj over Jake Sanderson. Just a complete toss-up based on what kind of role you need filled...

The problem is Sanderson is better than xhekaj offensively AND defensively.

So even if xhekaj could produce say, 80% of Sanderson's offense, he would still also be worse defensively.

If somehow xhekaj could produce 80% of Sanderson's offense, while also being noticeably better defensively, while also being bigger and stronger and more physical (that's the only thing he actually is) then you would have a decent comparison to Caufield vs Pinto.

 

[Xspyrit]

The problem is Sanderson is better than xhekaj offensively AND defensively.

So even if xhekaj could produce say, 80% of Sanderson's offense, he would still also be worse defensively.

If somehow xhekaj could produce 80% of Sanderson's offense, while also being noticeably better defensively, while also being bigger and stronger and more physical (that's the only thing he actually is) then you would have a decent comparison to Caufield vs Pinto.

Xhekaj is pretty bad defensively. He's sheltered but still gets caved in like a mofo

He has a good point shot which creates a bit of offense and is very intimidating physically but I doubt he'll be more than a 3rd pairing D-man on a competitive team. Pronouncing his name in the same sentence as Jake Sanderson is quite laughable. It's borderline when it's Guhle so imagine Xhekaj

But don't be surprised by these comments though, I just read in a CGY-MTL proposal where it is said that "Calgary get a building block in Xhekaj". The hype train is real here.

All that being said, I think an healthy Caufield will outproduce Pinto comfortably every season but it's a bit like comparing Kovalchuk/Heatley with Bergeron (not saying Caufield/Pinto will be as good). What do you need? Pure offense or 2-way?

 

[Ovi895]

What about

Chabot for Ekblad

Virtually the same cap hit, each team gets a player who compliments their group better.

Chabot - smooth skating PMD, goes well with Florida's offensive style. Forsling/Montour/Chabot/Gudas (or whatever RD they replace Gudas with, Severson, Mayfield, etc) should be more dynamic

Ekblad is slower but as a big shot RD he should fit like a glove with Sanderson. Sanderson-Ekblad/Chychrun-Zub is a very well rounded top 4.

Chabot is a year younger and signed for much longer but at 8 million a year that might be cap space Ottawa would prefer to have in 2 years after Ekblad's contract runs out.

Contingent on Ekblad waiving his NMC of course

 

[Golden_Jet]

Sure, just like it would be a sensible take for someone to prefer Arber Xhekaj over Jake Sanderson. Just a complete toss-up based on what kind of role you need filled...

If the role is too punch someone than ya take Xhekaj, otherwise you take Sanderson.