Player Discussion Shane Pinto (C) - PART 2

[DrSense]

It may well be that Pinto is a better prospect than Brown or Abramov, or a more likely NHL player

In that case he'll be in the NHL at the same age they are still in the AHL. But that still might be 2 years even if he develops faster than those two guys, who it is unknown if and when they will be full time NHLers.

 

[DrSense]

Logan Brown and Pinto will be competing for different rolls on the team.

Pinto certainly plays a style in terms of a two-way game that leads you to believe he will be able to play bottom 6 ahead of a guy like Brown. But both guys play center and are trying to crack a team that already has Norris and White locked in, and perhaps Stutzle and Tierney also at center. There will only be so many chairs for centers with the NHL team, so they will be competing against each other in some ways, even though a coach might see using them differently if they do crack the lineup.

 

[OD99]

His skating is also not amazing, which is another reason it takes time.

I have read this a few times about him but he seems to move around out there quite well.

Is there any concern he can't keep up at NHL pace? Skating can improve a fair bit but never thought it was a significant weak part of his game.

 

[Big Muddy]

Yesterday Button compared Pinto to Copp from the Jets. Fair compare? Copp's stats in Winnipeg below.

2014-15	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	1	0	1	1	0	2	--	--	--	--	--
2015-16	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	77	7	6	13	6	8	--	--	--	--	--
2016-17	Manitoba Moose	AHL	8	0	5	5	4	-1	--	--	--	--	--
2016-17	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	64	9	8	17	18	8	--	--	--	--	--
2017-18	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	82	9	19	28	14	17	16	1	2	3	4
2018-19	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	69	11	14	25	6	20	6	0	5	5	2
2019-20	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	63	10	16	26	10	-3	4	2	0	2	4
2020-21	Winnipeg Jets	NHL	38	12	16	28	12	4

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

I guess the Button comparison to Copp was based on his versatility? I have also heard Copp compared to Hyman (a winger?). Hyman is moved around to play on different lines (& players).

 

[NHL Dude 120]

Would you ever consider having Pinto play the last game of the season on the top line just so he can see what it's like?

 

[Big Muddy]

Has Dorion or DJ indicated what they plan on doing with Pinto this year?

I can see a scenario where he gets a handful of games this year, but still spends a good chunk of his time in the AHL next year to develop. Then again, maybe he makes the jump right away. The path they took with Norris seems like it could be relevant for Pinto as well.

 

[Sweatred]

I'm hoping the playmaking/possession develops a bit more and we get a poor man's Anze Kopitar.

That would be nice ... I’m hoping for a player that can balance off the other teams possession and drive some offence.

 

[Sweatred]

Pinto certainly plays a style in terms of a two-way game that leads you to believe he will be able to play bottom 6 ahead of a guy like Brown. But both guys play center and are trying to crack a team that already has Norris and White locked in, and perhaps Stutzle and Tierney also at center. There will only be so many chairs for centers with the NHL team, so they will be competing against each other in some ways, even though a coach might see using them differently if they do crack the lineup.

No doubt ... I don’t see a 24 year old White doing anything that can’t be replaced by Pinto or Brown hopefully. I guess we will see where Pinto’s (and hopefully Brown’s) game is soon.

 

[SensFactor]

That's what it would take to make you happy? If he got those numbers once in his career, I would be thrilled.

Maybe I over estimated his projection. I thought he would be a 50pt guy year in year out. I have him projected as 2c.

 

[DrSense]

I have read this a few times about him but he seems to move around out there quite well.

Is there any concern he can't keep up at NHL pace? Skating can improve a fair bit but never thought it was a significant weak part of his game.

It was regarded as a weakness when drafted (Compared to top prospects his age), and probably now just seen as "not a strength". But the step up in skating at the AHL and NHL levels is significant, so where as he was an above average skater in the NCAA this year, he'll suddenly find he's a below average one when he arrives as a pro. But it keeps improving at his age, so can definitely get to or slightly above average at the NHL level. Shouldn't hold him back long-term, but guys who aren't burners often take a year or two in the minors to figure out how to adapt their game to the pace. Both Stone and Batherson are good examples of that. The same can be said for Logan Brown's skating too.

 

[Micklebot]

He's 2-3 years younger than guys like Logan Brown and Vitali Abramov, who are still finding their way to the NHL. He is 2 years younger than Batherson, who is just now a full time NHLer this season. These are comparable prospects.

So I'm not sure why we'd expect Pinto to be an obvious candidate to fast track. He has a chance given the quality of his draws and defensive play as a 4th line center, but it's a big jump from the NCAA to the AHL, let alone NHL. His skating is also not amazing, which is another reason it takes time.

That fastest track would probably be following Norris' path of one full AHL season where he is dominant for a full year, in which case you give him a look and a chance to make the team sooner. But that is not the typical path, so I wouldn't use Norris as an "Expectation", although you certainly give Pinto every chance in Belleville to thrive and succeed in terms of ice time and linemates.

I just don't think his age is why we need to be patient. There is no need to rush him, but he is already 20, soon to be 21(nov). We've been patient, and he's now at the stage where we let his performance dictate the next steps imo. I personally don't think his age should come into the decision anymore, thats all. Either he is good enough to play or needs some more development (more of a gradient, he might be ready in some regards but need to developin others).

I see him as on the Pageau path, first year really breaking in he was 21 but played a couple dozen games the year before as a 20 year old. I think he can potentially be a similar player for us but with better size.

 

[GermanSpitfire]

I have high expectations for Pinto. I wanted Sean Couturier in the 2011 draft and was disappointed when Ottawa didn’t select him.
I see some Couturier in Pinto, with a stick like Pavelski. I also said White reminds me of Couturier so there’s that....

 

[TheNewEra]

its going to be interesting to see where he plays, especially if no forwards are moved

tkachuk-norris-paul
stutzle-white-batherson
dzingel-tierney-brown
formenton-anisimov-dadonov

bishop and amadio as the extra

watson might be back april 20th ish (if we use the 4 week mark for his injury)

Easiest spot would be for anisimov but if it negatively effects dadonov then it makes things more complicated

 

[DrSense]

I just don't think his age is why we need to be patient. There is no need to rush him, but he is already 20, soon to be 21(nov). We've been patient, and he's now at the stage where we let his performance dictate the next steps imo. I personally don't think his age should come into the decision anymore, thats all. Either he is good enough to play or needs some more development (more of a gradient, he might be ready in some regards but need to developin others).

I see him as on the Pageau path, first year really breaking in he was 21 but played a couple dozen games the year before as a 20 year old. I think he can potentially be a similar player for us but with better size.

Yeah, my point is just really about expectations. I'm totally cool if Pinto plays his way onto the team as soon as next year, although I just don't want to see him be our 4th line center getting 10 minutes per night, when he could be playing 20 mins in Belleville. But if he cracks our top 9, he cracks the top 9 - good by me if it the coach sees it that way.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Would you ever consider having Pinto play the last game of the season on the top line just so he can see what it's like?

I mean if he fits there sure why not. I don’t think we should take some approach to get him ready for top line duty tho

 

[aragorn]

First, it's likely that Pinto won't be in the lineup until after the trade deadline & depending on how many players PD can move out there should be room in the lineup for Pinto. I also think that since it will be his first game in the NHL I think it would make sense to start him at RW rather than centre where he could be over matched & maybe too much responsibility all at once. I think the best place to start him would be at RW with Tkachuk & Norris & see how he meshes with those two. If he fits in & seems to be able to handle the pace & physicality then try him at centre a few games later. There is lots of time & lots of games this yr to see how he handles the NHL & where the best fit is for him & the Sens.

 

[Sweatred]

First, it's likely that Pinto won't be in the lineup until after the trade deadline & depending on how many players PD can move out there should be room in the lineup for Pinto. I also think that since it will be his first game in the NHL I think it would make sense to start him at RW rather than centre where he could be over matched & maybe too much responsibility all at once. I think the best place to start him would be at RW with Tkachuk & Norris & see how he meshes with those two. If he fits in & seems to be able to handle the pace & physicality then try him at centre a few games later. There is lots of time & lots of games this yr to see how he handles the NHl & where the best fit is for him & the Sens.

For what it’s worth Pinto said he was told he would be starting out at Center - who knows.

 

[aragorn]

For what it’s worth Pinto said he was told he would be starting out at Center - who knows.

I heard that too on Team 1200, but I imagine DJ will figure that out quite quickly after a few skates before they put him into a game. He has the size to handle NHL players & he was defensive forward of the yr so that should help him especially with the coaches anyway, he just needs to fit in somewhere.

Also, I assume we should see L. Brown at some point maybe around the same time & they have already said they plan on putting him between Stutzle & Batherson, so that centre spot could be taken. Don't know when White will return but it could also be on that western trip & after the deadline when they will need him. They also have Mike Amadio to look at & he's a centre too, lots of options for the coach to decide.

 

[OD99]

If there was ever a guy you start right away at C it's Pinto.

Has the size, defensive awareness and ridiculous FO%.

Let him play his natural position from the get-go and let's see how he handles it but seems like he has everything you want in a pro C.

 

[NHL Dude 120]

I mean if he fits there sure why not. I don’t think we should take some approach to get him ready for top line duty tho

What I mean is just for one game and one game only let him play on the top line.

 

[Icelevel]

He is better than Tierney right now. (Or within a couple weeks). Fatigue could be an issue until he gets settled but I don’t need to see Tierney anymore.

 

[NyQuil]

He is better than Tierney right now. (Or within a couple weeks). Fatigue could be an issue until he gets settled but I don’t need to see Tierney anymore.

No clue if he's better than Tierney (within weeks) but I expect much more from Tierney as a veteran at this stage.

I do think that, on balance, very few rookies are better than NHL players with almost 500 games of NHL experience.

The difference being that Pinto has a lot of room to improve and Tierney has none.

 

[Burrowsaurus]

Says he’s gonna ask for 12 or 66. Hope it’s 66 so we can watch quebec and pittsburgh cry over it. Remember when Ho-sang wore 66

 

[BigRig4]

Any idea when he can exit quarantine?

 

[Cosmix]

Would you ever consider having Pinto play the last game of the season on the top line just so he can see what it's like?

I would consider playing Pinto with two top wingers in at least one game to give him an opportunity to play with more highly skilled players. It does not have to be the last game of this season as the team is not in a playoff position nor battling for one.