Shanahan's biggest gaffe shows he's out of touch: revisiting the "Discounts" quote

[Superstar]

Sad but a good point.

I think it's a risk I take.

Not making the playoffs next year is really not an option...Matthews will have only 2 years left on his contract after next year, and he has a full NMC in his final year...Nylander will also have 2 years remaining in his contract after next year...time is ticking fast before these guys become UFAs and demand more money or leave.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You didn't refute a single one of the myriad of examples that apparently shouldn't have happened in a million years.

Because I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about because you wrote in code.

 

[Stonehands1990]

What do you mean?

Signing bonuses are part of a player's contract/compensation and are included when figuring out AAV.

We’re saying the same thing

 

[egd27]

We’re saying the same thing

Ok....thought you were saying they were exempt from the AAV calculation. I see what you meant

 

[4thline]

Because I have absolutely no idea what you’re talking about because you wrote in code.

Pronger trade (x2)
Forsberg rental
Vanek offersheet
Penner offersheet
Kessel offersheet leveraged trade
O'Rielly offersheet

 

[Dreakmur]

Pronger trade (x2)
Forsberg rental
Vanek offersheet
Penner offersheet
Kessel offersheet leveraged trade
O'Rielly offersheet

So, in 20+ years, one offer sheet worked, and that was a 1st, 2nd and 3rd pick for a badly overpaid Penner.

Doesn’t seem like a serious threat.

 

[Antropovsky]

So, in 20+ years, one offer sheet worked, and that was a 1st, 2nd and 3rd pick for a badly overpaid Penner.

Doesn’t seem like a serious threat.

Doesn't matter if they worked or didnt... the team who owned the player lost regardless. You can't trade the player in the first year of the matched contract... you pay a player more than you wanted... you lose the player... you get a player on a longer team than you wanted .... etc etc. Carolina certainly didn't want to pay Aho the up front bonuses and I'm sure would've like more than 5 years term. Anaheim didn't want to lose Penner.... Nashville was working on trading Weber when Flyers offersheeted etc.

 

[Dreakmur]

Doesn't matter if they worked or didnt... the team who owned the player lost regardless. You can't trade the player in the first year of the matched contract... you pay a player more than you wanted... you lose the player... you get a player on a longer team than you wanted .... etc etc. Carolina certainly didn't want to pay Aho the up front bonuses and I'm sure would've like more than 5 years term. Anaheim didn't want to lose Penner.... Nashville was working on trading Weber when Flyers offersheeted etc.

How many of the offer sheets were overpays? Penner for sure, which is why they took the picks. Vanek probably. The rest were all deals the teams happily matched.

 

[hfman]

Not making the playoffs next year is really not an option...Matthews will have only 2 years left on his contract after next year, and he has a full NMC in his final year...Nylander will also have 2 years remaining in his contract after next year...time is ticking fast before these guys become UFAs and demand more money or leave.

they're all leaving. they don't want to play for this team. they proved it to us by what they did in this year's playoffs

 

[Antropovsky]

How many of the offer sheets were overpays? Penner for sure, which is why they took the picks. Vanek probably. The rest were all deals the teams happily matched.

So Matthews 5 year contract taking him to UFA is a problem for the leafs but not for Carolina and Aho?

 

[Dreakmur]

So Matthews 5 year contract taking him to UFA is a problem for the leafs but not for Carolina and Aho?

Matthews getting a 5 year deal at a dollar value that should have been 8 is the problem.

If Marner signed a 5 year offer sheet for 8.5 million, that would have been great!

 

[Antropovsky]

Matthews getting a 5 year deal at a dollar value that should have been 8 is the problem.

If Marner signed a 5 year offer sheet for 8.5 million, that would have been great!

On Weber offersheet:

They were, and Weber signed an offer sheet that was specifically designed to torpedo any match from the Predators.
The contract paid him $1 million in base salary with a $13 million signing bonus over the first four years; $4 million in salary with an $8 million bonus in years five and six; $6 million in years 7-10; $3 million in year 11; and $1 million in each of the final three years.
(RIP, deep back-sliding contracts.)
If the Predators matched, they would have been on the hook for $27 million for Weber, with $26 million of it guaranteed through a lockout.
Barry Petchesky of Deadspin called it “a CBA-Beating Masterpiece.”
The notion that the Predators would match this was, at the time, a long-shot. Nashville fans were left hoping that the threat that they might, or the Flyers’ cap considerations going forward, would net the Predators something more palpable than the four first-round picks. But the Flyers basically had all the leverage on a potential trade.
So the Predators were basically screwed, and the hockey world was Photoshopping Weber into Flyers jerseys.

 

[yubbers]

Nylander is not overpaid lol

He makes more than Pasta who was his comparable at the time. So yeah....he is. Willy playing chicken with Dubas and winning was also the beginning of the end of our cap.

 

[Antropovsky]

Matthews getting a 5 year deal at a dollar value that should have been 8 is the problem.

If Marner signed a 5 year offer sheet for 8.5 million, that would have been great!

What do you mean matthews at a dollar value that should've been 8?

 

[Antropovsky]

He makes more than Pasta who was his comparable at the time. So yeah....he is. Willy playing chicken with Dubas and winning was also the beginning of the end of our cap.

Agreed... it doesn't look too bad right now maybe, but at the time it was an overpayment.

 

[Stonehands1990]

He makes more than Pasta who was his comparable at the time. So yeah....he is. Willy playing chicken with Dubas and winning was also the beginning of the end of our cap.

He makes less cap hit percentage than Pasternak. Time value of money is a reality

 

[Stonehands1990]

What do you mean matthews at a dollar value that should've been 8?

McDavid 8 x 12.5
Eichel 8 x 10.0
Matthews 5 x 11.6

See the problem now? Eichel and McDavid got that money because they sold UFA years

 

[Antropovsky]

McDavid 8 x 12.5
Eichel 8 x 10.0
Matthews 5 x 11.6

See the problem now? Eichel and McDavid got that money because they sold UFA years

Werent we talking about offersheets? Aho 5x8.45 .....

You think Matthews should make the same amount as Aho?

 

[Dreakmur]

On Weber offersheet:

They were, and Weber signed an offer sheet that was specifically designed to torpedo any match from the Predators.
The contract paid him $1 million in base salary with a $13 million signing bonus over the first four years; $4 million in salary with an $8 million bonus in years five and six; $6 million in years 7-10; $3 million in year 11; and $1 million in each of the final three years.
(RIP, deep back-sliding contracts.)
If the Predators matched, they would have been on the hook for $27 million for Weber, with $26 million of it guaranteed through a lockout.
Barry Petchesky of Deadspin called it “a CBA-Beating Masterpiece.”
The notion that the Predators would match this was, at the time, a long-shot. Nashville fans were left hoping that the threat that they might, or the Flyers’ cap considerations going forward, would net the Predators something more palpable than the four first-round picks. But the Flyers basically had all the leverage on a potential trade.
So the Predators were basically screwed, and the hockey world was Photoshopping Weber into Flyers jerseys.

Toronto gives out signing bonuses anyway. It’s not a threat at all.

 

[Dreakmur]

Werent we talking about offersheets? Aho 5x8.45 .....

You think Matthews should make the same amount as Aho?

We were talking about offer sheets not being a serious threat. Aho signed a very reasonable offer sheet and Carolina was likely thrilled to match.

At his cap hit, Matthews should be 8 years.

 

[Stonehands1990]

Werent we talking about offersheets? Aho 5x8.45 .....

You think Matthews should make the same amount as Aho?

Sigh

I think Matthews should have a similar contract to his comparable. Eichel and McDavid

 

[Antropovsky]

We were talking about offer sheets not being a serious threat. Aho signed a very reasonable offer sheet and Carolina was likely thrilled to match.

At his cap hit, Matthews should be 8 years.

We were and the poster I was talking to say the offersheets were all reasonable

My response was they are reasonable?

everyone is pissed about Matthews ar 5 years and it taking him to ufa...meanwhile now you two are saying Carolina should be thrilled about Aho's offersheet taking him to ufa? Carolina certainly isn't happy with all the bonuses and the 5 years of Ahos contract. I'm sure they ideally would've had him sign to a longer term, without the high bonuses and maybe even less term.

 

[Dreakmur]

We were and the poster I was talking to say the offersheets were all reasonable
My response was they are reasonable?

everyone is pissed about Matthews ar 5 years and it taking him to ufa...meanwhile now you two are saying Carolina should be thrilled about Aho's offersheet taking him to ufa?

People aren’t pissed just because it’s 5 years. He got the money of a contract that should have been 8 years, and he didn’t have to sign for 8 years.

 

[Antropovsky]

People aren’t pissed just because it’s 5 years. He got the money of a contract that should have been 8 years, and he didn’t have to sign for 8 years.

Sure he did ... but he couldve got 12.5 for 5 years on an offersheet.

 

[Superstar]

Matthews getting a 5 year deal at a dollar value that should have been 8 is the problem.

If Marner signed a 5 year offer sheet for 8.5 million, that would have been great!

Marner wasn't going to sign an offersheet for that money...his bridge deal demand was $9 million over 3 years...he was determined to bend over the Leafs and Dubas let him.