Shanahan's biggest gaffe shows he's out of touch: revisiting the "Discounts" quote

[ottomaddox]

If Matthews becomes an RFA he gets offersheeted... and likely at maximum cap hit... certainly much more than 11.6. Then what do you do? Let him walk for 4 first round picks?

Leafs couldn't let him reach RFA status. Big franchise center, generational goal scorer - unfortunately your at his mercy. Just got to hope he's not incredibly greedy.

Which team is going be insane and offer much more than 11.6? Not every franchise can do that. The salary cap applies to everyone. Most teams are not as rich as Toronto. What would be the harm in getting 4 first round picks? Toronto was rebuilding at the time that they drafted Matthews. It would have sucked to lose Matthews, but TOR would have been compensated.

 

[egd27]

If Matthews becomes an RFA he gets offersheeted... and likely at maximum cap hit...

Oh come on, there isn't a max cap hit contract in the league now, nor has there ever been to my knowledge. AM is a great goal scorer, but he is not the all around player that would be the first to command a max cap hit contract.....plus 4 first round picks.

Put down the pipe and take off the blue glasses.

 

[Bluelines]

Oh come on, there isn't a max cap hit contract in the league now, nor has there ever been to my knowledge. AM is a great goal scorer, but he is not the all around player that would be the first to command a max cap hit contract.....plus 4 first round picks.

Put down the pipe and take off the blue glasses.

$10,907,736 is (4) 1st round picks.

Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

But its a moot point, Matthews will be a UFA not a RFA in 2024-25,

 

[egd27]

$10,907,736 is (4) 1st round picks.

Offer Sheet Calculator - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

But its a moot point, Matthews will be a UFA not a RFA in 2024-25,

What did you think I was saying? Yes, a max cap offer sheet would have also cost the issuing team 4 firsts in addition to the money they'd be shelling out.

 

[JEI]

I do agree. He was certainly better off not saying anything. That was certainly a rookie move (a big mistake in this market).

Didn't help his new GM at all given the magnitude of the job he had signing those core players.

 

[Bluelines]

What did you think I was saying? Yes, a max cap offer sheet would have also cost the issuing team 4 firsts in addition to the money they'd be shelling out.

I thought you were saying a max offer like $16 mil (20% of the upper team limit)

 

[egd27]

I thought you were saying a max offer like $16 mil (20% of the upper team limit)

Ok.

The OP suggested that AM34 would have likely received a max cap offer sheet had he got to July 1. I disagreed about a max cap to begin with, let alone adding the draft picks that would go along with that offer.

 

[socko]

I do agree. He was certainly better off not saying anything. That was certainly a rookie move (a big mistake in this market).

Didn't help his new GM at all given the magnitude of the job he had signing those core players.

If you say it, you have to back it up with your actions. Shanahan lost all credibility. I personally think he's a joke at this point. As Gretzky proved, hockey player doesn't equal anything more than hockey player. That doesn't mean some hockey players don't make good executives. Yzerman does. We just got the wrong Red Wing.

 

[JEI]

If you say it, you have to back it up with your actions. Shanahan lost all credibility. I personally think he's a joke at this point. As Gretzky proved, hockey player doesn't equal anything more than hockey player. That doesn't mean some hockey players don't make good executives. Yzerman does. We just got the wrong Red Wing.

I wouldn't go that far (one comment = losing all credibility = a joke), but your entitled to your opinion.

 

[Sweetpotato]

Lou was always leaving, Lou said as much, he thought it was a year early but he know he was there for a short term fix. I remember it was a Hunter v Dubas controversy... who would be our next GM. I wonder if having Hunter would have made our trajectory any different (better?).

Jebus Subban or Domi , those guys are magnets for chaos... hard pass on both.

I often wonder this as well. Hunter is a smart man, he's a guys who's been around the block and is very well respected in the hockey world. I hope he gets a kick at a can down the road as a GM somewhere.

 

[AvroArrow]

You are welcome to submit your calculations.

10M for JT and Matthews (You're not signing JT as a UFA for less and goal wise he has produced pretty well) Marner 9M. Nylander is on a fair deal. That's about 4.5M

 

[hamzarocks]

Man JT rn struggles to Crack 70 points. He is dropping rapidly to 2C level rather than a 11M player

We have to tell Matthews and Marner to go f*** themselves and break the top line

Play AM - WN 20 mins

Play JT- MM 19 mins

We need JT to be a ppg+ center for the duration for his contract

He's already been net negative value through 3 years with none of the seasons being a 11M player. He's also become a poor playoff performer with the leafs with 8 pts in 12 games(forget the Habs game 1 he barely played)

JT's declining heavy and fast. If he becomes a mid 60s kuznetsov level player we have a huge cap dump. We seriously need to play him with Marner who he priced best with and hope that kick starts his offense belong belong be a ppg center and close to 10M player

 

[AvroArrow]

Man JT rn struggles to Crack 70 points. He is dropping rapidly to 2C level rather than a 11M player

We have to tell Matthews and Marner to go f*** themselves and break the top line

Play AM - WN 20 mins

Play JT- MM 19 mins

We need JT to be a ppg+ center for the duration for his contract

He's already been net negative value through 3 years with none of the seasons being a 11M player. He's also become a poor playoff performer with the leafs with 8 pts in 12 games(forget the Habs game 1 he barely played)

JT's declining heavy and fast. If he becomes a mid 60s kuznetsov level player we have a huge cap dump. We seriously need to play him with Marner who he priced best with and hope that kick starts his offense belong belong be a ppg center and close to 10M player

Yup, it's a scary situation. Ideally I would love to move him, but NMC and his contract makes it impossible. Hopefully he can bounce back next year, he did just have a career best 47 goals playing with Marner so hopefully reuniting them would give him a boost. That 11M looks uglier by the day.

 

[hamzarocks]

Yup, it's a scary situation. Ideally I would love to move him, but NMC and his contract makes it impossible. Hopefully he can bounce back next year, he did just have a career best 47 goals playing with Marner so hopefully reuniting them would give him a boost. That 11M looks uglier by the day.

He won't ever be Jeff Skinner bad but in years 6 and 7 of thst deal we could have a 55 pt 11M center if he doesn't rebound back.

It's strange to see him fall so quickly though I guess part of that is due to Keefe having a hard-on for playing the 1st line like they're a top-pairing.

Marner playing near 23mins is ridiculous.

MM, AM, WN, JT should all play around 19-20 mins in the regular season with any of them who step up in the playoffs getting their minutes increased while those who play poor dropping g down to 16/17.


JT is only 30, yet looking at what Hedman is doing from the same draft class it truly is astonishing

Hedman has been so much better than JT since 2017 onwards. JT should be a ppg+ center honestly for the duration of his deal it only goes up until 34

Joe sucked this year but he was elite from ages 30-34. JT has no excuse for not being a 82-90 point center with the level of talent he plays with for the remainder of his deal.

 

[Garthinater]

Oh come on, there isn't a max cap hit contract in the league now, nor has there ever been to my knowledge. AM is a great goal scorer, but he is not the all around player that would be the first to command a max cap hit contract.....plus 4 first round picks.

Put down the pipe and take off the blue glasses.

I never heard so much fuss about offer sheets until matthews and marner were in negotiations.

Only 4 players since 2010 have even signed an offer sheet.

Marner said he wanted to be a leaf.

No one was going to give auston max contract with a career high of 63 points.

 

[Garthinater]

If Matthews becomes an RFA he gets offersheeted... and likely at maximum cap hit... certainly much more than 11.6. Then what do you do? Let him walk for 4 first round picks?

Leafs couldn't let him reach RFA status. Big franchise center, generational goal scorer - unfortunately your at his mercy. Just got to hope he's not incredibly greedy.

Time of signing:

Matthews career high 63 points
2 points in last 7 PO games

No one was going to give auston max cap.

Also, turns out auston was incredibly greedy. Represented by the same agents as mcdavid yet only one of the players bent their team over.

I never heard anyone talk about mcdavid getting offer sheets and he's twice as good as Auston.

 

[TheScandal89]

Lou was always leaving, Lou said as much, he thought it was a year early but he know he was there for a short term fix. I remember it was a Hunter v Dubas controversy... who would be our next GM. I wonder if having Hunter would have made our trajectory any different (better?).

Jebus Subban or Domi , those guys are magnets for chaos... hard pass on both.

I don't want a Subban or Domi either but I'm just saying thats the kinda guys they'd propably bring in to try and sell the fans because they have big names. I say that because the rumor said there bringing in a "big time player" and that none of the core 5 would be included

 

[Bluelines]

I often wonder this as well. Hunter is a smart man, he's a guys who's been around the block and is very well respected in the hockey world. I hope he gets a kick at a can down the road as a GM somewhere.

It's interesting that once he left the Leafs, he's had 2 other teams interview him but they both went a different direction.

 

[Antropovsky]

Time of signing:

Matthews career high 63 points
2 points in last 7 PO games

No one was going to give auston max cap.

Also, turns out auston was incredibly greedy. Represented by the same agents as mcdavid yet only one of the players bent their team over.

I never heard anyone talk about mcdavid getting offer sheets and he's twice as good as Auston.

Of course you didn't hear about McDavid getting offer sheets, he signed his extension a full year before he was to reach RFA status. See below. It's not about Matthews being greedy or not.. fact is no GM would've let him if he got offersheeted... NONE. Letting it get to that point would've been dumb on Dubas part.... the deal wasn't the best, but Dubas took the lesser of two evils.


McDavid himself never came close to a contract holdout, as he signed an eight-year, $100-million contract in July 2017 to make him the league's highest-paid player, one year before he would've become an RFA.
"I didn't want to be sitting here and not going to training camp," McDavid said. "That was my biggest fear, honestly."

 

[Mats13]

Lou was always leaving, Lou said as much, he thought it was a year early but he know he was there for a short term fix. I remember it was a Hunter v Dubas controversy... who would be our next GM. I wonder if having Hunter would have made our trajectory any different (better?).

Jebus Subban or Domi , those guys are magnets for chaos... hard pass on both.

Lol the same Hunter that couldn’t draft to save his life? Name one Hunter pick outside the first round that isn’t a disappointment.

Dubas may not be the answer, but Hunter was by far worse.

 

[MapleLeafs77]

View attachment 448486

‘This may not be for everyone’: Shanahan talks Maple Leafs and hometown discounts


More at: (source)


What a screw up that was.
He ate 7 AAV for his loose lips.

Dubas Overpays:
Matthews 2, Marner 3, Tavares 1, Nylander 1.

Shanny should go for that. His lack of understanding of negotiations showed.

Someone else can oversee the team for a year and then decide if Dubas and Keefe should go.

There is zero risk in pink slipping Shanahan this year. It wont effect the on ice play next year.

Time to pink slip Shanahan.

How is tavares overpaid by 1 and matthews by 2? You think tavares is worth more than matthews…….

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Man JT rn struggles to Crack 70 points. He is dropping rapidly to 2C level rather than a 11M player

We have to tell Matthews and Marner to go f*** themselves and break the top line

Play AM - WN 20 mins

Play JT- MM 19 mins

We need JT to be a ppg+ center for the duration for his contract

He's already been net negative value through 3 years with none of the seasons being a 11M player. He's also become a poor playoff performer with the leafs with 8 pts in 12 games(forget the Habs game 1 he barely played)

JT's declining heavy and fast. If he becomes a mid 60s kuznetsov level player we have a huge cap dump. We seriously need to play him with Marner who he priced best with and hope that kick starts his offense belong belong be a ppg center and close to 10M player

The only thing that fell behind for him were his ES goals, and he was snake-bitten for a good part of the middle of the season before coming in hot at the end. He's a career 12.5% shooter at ES and was barely over 10% this year. Even last year, which could have been better also, he was only at 11.5%. If he just shoots his career average at ES this year, he's on a 78 point pace with over 30 goals once again.

And that is playing 1.5 minutes less per game than his career average ice time too. If he maintained his current rate and just played the minutes he played 2 years ago, he would have had a 77 point pace with 30 goals (despite having the worst ES shooting percentage of his career). He's at 35 if he is at his career average for ES shooting, which also gets him to a PPG player.

Keep in mind that he's never played better defensive hockey in his career, and he did that with Nylander and a rotating set of 2LW's the entire year.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Time of signing:

Matthews career high 63 points
2 points in last 7 PO games

No one was going to give auston max cap.

Also, turns out auston was incredibly greedy. Represented by the same agents as mcdavid yet only one of the players bent their team over.

I never heard anyone talk about mcdavid getting offer sheets and he's twice as good as Auston.

I've seen you mention a bunch of times how Matthews' career high was 63 points when he signed his contract, as if you can negotiate based only on that like he's a second line player, and ignore the fact that he was clearly the best goal scorer in the world not named Ovechkin.

What's up with that? You can't negotiate by pretending to be dumb.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

i agree and you don't pay that much for a ufa when you're not filling a glaring need

You don't hand out the second highest cap hit in the entire league (at the time) for player that will be on the second line.

Seems quite obvious.

Taveras
When they signed him before dealing with Mathews and Marner it screwed up everything.

JT was a good player for around 9 mil.

I really think they jumped the gun on the process.

Mathews and Marner both said well if JT is worth we are just as good .

.

Agree with the above posts.

1. Ya, Leafs have never been good at a patient rebuild.

2. JT didn't address a primary need at the time.

3. And, the timing of the JT acquisition was bad. Paying attention to the sequence of events is very important in any good plan. The org needed to sign their big 3 first (or at least 2 of them) and then see how much there was left over. If they viewed 2 of the 3 as the most essential, they could have bridged the least important player of the 3 for example creating even more cap space.

Saying another team would have paid more is immaterial in relation to following a well conceived plan. Its like polishing a beebee.

 

[Trapper]

Man JT rn struggles to Crack 70 points. He is dropping rapidly to 2C level rather than a 11M player

We have to tell Matthews and Marner to go f*** themselves and break the top line

Play AM - WN 20 mins

Play JT- MM 19 mins

We need JT to be a ppg+ center for the duration for his contract

He's already been net negative value through 3 years with none of the seasons being a 11M player. He's also become a poor playoff performer with the leafs with 8 pts in 12 games(forget the Habs game 1 he barely played)

JT's declining heavy and fast. If he becomes a mid 60s kuznetsov level player we have a huge cap dump. We seriously need to play him with Marner who he priced best with and hope that kick starts his offense belong belong be a ppg center and close to 10M player

You would have to play him with Marner.
If JT starts to dip, Marner isn’t a natural goal scorer, you are essentially paying 33 million for one true goal scorer.
Yikes and yikes again. Playoffs are already proving difficult to score in.