It seems like based on Shanahan's management strategy you might get your wish. It's all open to the public in a Shanahan organization.
Won't be surprised if it gets 'leaked' so long as it makes Dubas look bad and Shanahan justified.
Confirmed with Link: Shanahan Presser (Video)
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Won't be surprised if it gets 'leaked' so long as it makes Dubas look bad and Shanahan justified.
usernamezrhardtodo
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Someone said that this move by Shanny will shock the culture of everyone getting what they want even if they have not proven they deserve it. This will tell AM and the rest of them, that if they are not serious about a framework on the new deal they will be traded. No more getting paid by the xGF formula and potential. The country club atmosphere needs to go...nobody except O'Reilly said he needed to be better. We had excuses coming out the wazoo. We need to stop that and admit that getting goalied all the time means its you the players at fault..not the other goalie stealing wins.
usernamezrhardtodo
Registered User
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I think its on The Government of Canada hiring web page...If you find a job where not only you keep your job after failing to achieve objectives and also get a raise
can you send me a link? I’d love to work there
ITM
Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
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Shanahan was drafted by New Jersey and Lamoriello, and all but apprenticed in a Bowman led Red Wings organization. Proceeds to hire Lamoriello (as a known quantity), then hires Dubas unbeknownst to many...Opts for Dubas over LL...Gives him 9 years, repeated opportunities despite public pressure, never explains why...Then...advises Dubas to wait until the multi-million dollar contract they apparently agreed upon was finalized to hold the conference...Didn't stand in Dubas' strong impulse to hold the conference...WAITED for confirmation of a contract still on the table...
...But only concretely altered his decision the day after he received a counter-offer...Informed Dubas of the decision, and THEN provided a public explanation to the unforeseen events that transpired...
...and you think Brendan Shanahan operates and seeks operators who are indiscreet?
If anything, the dignified, discreet absorption of pressure is what's defined Shanahan's tenure, very much resembling his mentors mentioned above.
If no other information is provided, its not that the information "leaked" makes Dubas look bad and Shanahan seem justified. Its that the uncontested information Shanahan openly and directly provided absolutely justifies his actions and reveals Dubas and his agent's participation in negotiation as opportunistic or as I've noted elsewhere: Greedy.
Here's the fulcrum to verify the rightness of situation: If Dubas countered an offer he all but agreed to in principal and followed it up by attempting to corner Shanahan with his indirect negotiations delivered unannounced, in public and to the media, that's not just a "bad" look, that's definitional deception delivered on a public silver platter to the man who, but for his faith, leaves Dubas in relative obscurity.
Shanahan didn't mention the word, but that's the crux of what happened, I have zero doubt; Shanahan's faith in Dubas was rewarded with greed. And can you imagine if part of the counter-offer was the relegation of powers defined in Shanahan's role?
Another word Shanahan didn't outright mention was betrayal. But I put it to anyone to remove that word from the events that transpired. And the craziest thing about it all, is that a late in the day email from Dubas stating he was ready -- after Shanahan provided no reply the whole day long to the counter-offer -- to be the GM of the Leafs is a clear as can be tell, that Dubas came to his senses too late.
If you're Shanahan you realize the penny dropping is the cold realization that the thought process he just experienced, that betrayed him, wasn't the first time it visited the Toronto Maple Leafs, and that that thought process couldn't be permitted near the club ever again.
No but it did lead to Dubas being out of town so it was very beneficial at the end of the day.
Huge props for Dubas for being an idiot that press conference and digging his own grave.
Maplebeasts
I See Demons!!!!!
Im speculating that Dubas was let go over his want for autonomy, not money. There’s no salary cap for executives and MLSE has no issue paying the front office handsomely. I’m not on Dubas’ side here.
Stephen
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- Feb 28, 2002
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I agree with this take 200%.
My feeling is Dubas was trying to appeal to the court of public sentiment to create an "I reluctantly accept" moment to stay on as GM, to solve the manufactured crisis of whether he would stay or go, who would negotiate all these looming contracts to keep the band we don't want together.
For history fans, this is a classic power play that goes back to the days of the Roman Republic, Julius Caesar and the mob. Create uncertainty in the face of crisis, become the sought after, popular problem solver that is begged to come back. It's amazing theatre, completely Machiavellian.
What's more about the bait and switch negotiations is the talk of hockey autonomy. It's pretty clear to me that in an org. hierarchy there's a zero sum of powers, and the more Dubas takes on, the less control Shanahan would have as the president and go-to with the board.
That paves the way for a Shanahan ouster, a Dubas presidency within the lifetime of his new contract, and one playoff win on the Leafs record books.
I understand Dubas has his flaws. The more you pull back the curtain though I see Shanahan as a Grim Reaper. Patting your back with one hand prepping that sickle to behead you with the other. It will be interesting to see who The Grim Reaper hires. If it's a retread our already troubled franchise is in deep donkey dong.
Menzinger
Kessel4LadyByng
At the end of the day, Shannys actions were driven by internal organizational dynamics/politics. He and Dubas on an interpersonal level had a severe falling out and changes got made.
This wasn't driven by hockey operations, results, views on the core ect.
There will probably be a few more internal reverberations - coaching staff may go (though Shanny may opt to keep them in place, we don't know) - the other AGMs may go. And then Shanny will have to work fast to try and salvage the offset
This wasn't driven by hockey operations, results, views on the core ect.
There will probably be a few more internal reverberations - coaching staff may go (though Shanny may opt to keep them in place, we don't know) - the other AGMs may go. And then Shanny will have to work fast to try and salvage the offset
DarkKnight
Professional Amateur
- Jan 17, 2017
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Funny how all the people the Dubists shit on, Lou, Shanny, Babs, they all have won cups and having amazing pedigrees. Just weird, also kind of disrespectful.
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
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I think Shanahan was insulted by the way Dubas went about negotiating his own contract, but ultimately, it comes down to commitment to win. Forget about the GM job for a moment, would you extend a hockey player who comes out to the press and tells everyone that he's not sure he wants to play hockey anymore? What kind of performance would that player give you on the ice in the most crucial moments?
Dubas could have negotiated everything with Shanahan behind the scenes.
Based on what he said, I almost think Shanahan felt he had been played during the attempted contract extension process.
And I think that element on it’s own was the final straw.
ITM
Out on the front line, don't worry I'll be fine...
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It’s always a really bad idea to bring into question your commitment and loyalty to your employer.
It’s like cheating on your partner, you might be able to go on, but you can never take it back, you can’t undue the damage and things are never the same.
Maybe I don't follow other organizations enough but I have never seen or heard of a boss timelining an employees negotiations in detail, publicly, as justification for firing (not renewing) them. I'm not against firing (not renewing) an employee that negotiated as Shanahan stated that Dubas did.
The fact that we know the details of Dubas' negotiation strategies (and not just in a speculative sense) seems unprofessional for an organization.
Stephen
Moderator
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I think star athletes can pull that negotiating tactic, because they are 'irreplaceable' but you can't be non committal at the executive level, representing the organization. Not the same animal.
Shanahan realized he was getting played to squeeze more money and he finally accepted reality. Not unlike what the players do to Dubas. The massive red flag is that Shanahan doesn't seem to acknowledge that Dubas was a major failure as reflected by the on ice product . Now a new GM is under time constraints with huge decisions pending.
Superstar
"Be water, my friend."
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It would only work if that star player keeps on performing...once he slips up, people will always question his commitment by what he said before...even a star player could be traded for another star player.
Stephen
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ShaneFalco
Registered User
Dubas tried to be a weasel and they had to explain things . Dubas went public and tried to screw them.over and that opened the door.
'But he did it first' is the type of unprofessionalism I find unusual for an organization of this stature.
That’s actually sad.I think its on The Government of Canada hiring web page...
One of my friends got a job at the Govt about 9 yrs ago bc he could not cut it at his old job. He was saying by year 3, he realized he is head and shoulder better than anyone at his department even those at the tops and now he is in a position where he had no idea how he got there and he would never dreamt of and he is only there bc others sucks.
I do think he is being humble but at the same time, he is really not the sharpest tool in the box.
Why do people want him fired instead of dubas? Lol. Shanahan doesnt do anything, all he does is pick the gm. And the gm runs the team... I dont really believe he interferes or reject trades or accepts trades unless it has to do with one of the franchise players (mathews, marner or tavares). And I doubt dubas made a trade of that level
I think some of this seemingly originates from an overall generational divide we have in society today.
Dubas has seemingly appealed to, and is aligned philosophically with a younger generation and their thinking.
The generational divide, seems to cross many aspects of our society, sports, business and politics to name a few.
It seems to the younger generational thinkers, process alone, is sometimes viewed as being seemingly just as important, or even more important, than actual final outcomes.
Then however, when favourable outcomes are not achieved employing their progressive processes, the younger generation seemingly think the longstanding rules already in place, should simply be altered in such a way, and to such an extent, that the changes allow them to be successful without them having to change their preferred processes.
Case in point, many of us older fans recognize and have always recognized, that the playoffs are officiated completely differently versus the regular season. So therefore, having an offence first team built around a small group of four elite stars was always going to be a difficult structure to win it all.
Why?
In a salary cap world, there simply wouldn’t be enough salary left to round out a team with other meaningful players.
Lou would philosophically align with that traditional thinking I would suggest. He has a team first, individual second, managerial style and approach to the game. For Lou, the sum of the parts outweigh the worth of the individual. You play for the logo on the front of the jersey and not the name on the back of it and you win together as a team.
To me, individual accolades in life are great, but winning as a team to me is even better, as you have others to share the success with you.
Dubas obviously thought differently versus Lou and was confident that his “progressive approach” of an offence first model, could and would work, and I believe that is why Dubas desperately clung to his theory, trying year after failed year to win it all.
For Dubas true success represents winning, but doing so using his younger, “progressive” approach and proving the old guard wrong.
I believe that is why Dubas was so seemingly reluctant to move off his theories and change.
After this failed year, in what represents year five, what we saw was many of the Dubas supporters crying foul, that the longstanding tradition of the playoffs being officiated differently, is now suddenly unfair and is the actual root source of their collective failure. Not of course the flawed strategy their GM of choice put in place.
It’s not too different than what we see in a lot of our society today.
Life is too hard, or others have it better than us, so we want the rules changed in such a way and to an extent , that we’re just as successful as those more successful than us,—but oh, by the way—we aren’t prepared to make the requisite sacrifices required that those others did.
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True.
It’s the old economic law of supply and demand.
Perhaps Dubas over assessed his own worth to the team.
