Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

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Lou tried to sign Stammer the previous year. Dubas messed up the AAVs but the rebuild was over once they drafted Matty and he hit the road at full speed.
No. Matthews was just part of the rebuild, a huge piece, but they should have let those kids develop and kept acquiring assets to be used to strengthen the roster, when it became ready to compete.

You wait and see, Detroit will have more success than the Leafs in the next 5 to 10 yrs.
 
No. Matthews was just part of the rebuild, a huge piece, but they should have let those kids develop and kept acquiring assets to be used to strengthen the roster, when it became ready to compete.

You wait and see, Detroit will have more success than the Leafs in the next 5 to 10 yrs.
You're the only one here who is arguing that the Leafs should have intentionally made their team worse for another year just to try and get another top 5 pick. And again, you really don't think the NHL Head Office would have said something about the Leafs pulling this, considering how quickly they come down on the Leafs (and most other Canadian teams) for even smaller things? Don't even get me started on the media reaction...
 
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No. Matthews was just part of the rebuild, a huge piece, but they should have let those kids develop and kept acquiring assets to be used to strengthen the roster, when it became ready to compete.

You wait and see, Detroit will have more success than the Leafs in the next 5 to 10 yrs.
Sure but that is not what they did. They fast tracked it and are living off the 4 and not much more up front and in goal.
 
Sucks that the Leafs were the only team impacted by the pandemic.

Here's a thought.....if the cap had gone up as projected, the players that signed contracts during the covid seasons would have looked for more money, and other teams would have also had more money to compete for UFA's just like the Leafs.
The thing is the extra change in Aav for the kind of guys we’ve been signing (kampf mrazek Ritchie etc) vs the cap increase ($10m?) is negligible. Those guys might get 150-250k more. We got pinched having just signed 41m worth of aav annually in a group of 4 forwards before everything flattened out.
Having kampf at 1.75 mrazek at 4 ritchie at 2.75 mikheyev at 1.75 etc with a 90m cap would still have left a lot more room than the current crunch.
 
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The thing is the extra change in Aav for the kind of guys we’ve been signing (kampf mrazek Ritchie etc) vs the cap increase ($10m?) is negligible. Those guys might get 150-250k more. We got pinched having just signed 41m worth of aav annually in a group of 4 forwards before everything flattened out.
Having kampf at 1.75 mrazek at 4 ritchie at 2.75 mikheyev at 1.75 etc with a 90m cap would still have left a lot more room than the current crunch.

The more the cap goes up, the more the contracts follow. The seasons where the worst UFA contacts get signed are the seasons where there's the most open cap space.

The cap going up by 10million adds 320 million into the UFA market and you better believe just about every team is going to spend every penny.

Most of the UFAs would have ended up on the same teams and just taken up the same proportion of the available cap space.
 
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The more the cap goes up, the more the contracts follow. The seasons where the worst UFA contacts get signed are the seasons where there's the most open cap space.

The cap going up by 10million adds 320 million into the UFA market and you better believe just about every team is going to spend every penny.

Most of the UFAs would have ended up on the same teams and just taken up the same proportion of the available cap space.
Guess I shouldn't be surprised that understanding this is a stretch for some.
The thing is the extra change in Aav for the kind of guys we’ve been signing (kampf mrazek Ritchie etc) vs the cap increase ($10m?) is negligible. Those guys might get 150-250k more. We got pinched having just signed 41m worth of aav annually in a group of 4 forwards before everything flattened out.
Having kampf at 1.75 mrazek at 4 ritchie at 2.75 mikheyev at 1.75 etc with a 90m cap would still have left a lot more room than the current crunch.
So the Leafs would have an additional $8.5M, the actual thing is so would Tampa, Colorado, Rangers, Panthers, etc. etc. etc. And those teams seem to understand how to spread the salaries out across the the entire roster.
 
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You're the only one here who is arguing that the Leafs should have intentionally made their team worse for another year just to try and get another top 5 pick. And again, you really don't think the NHL Head Office would have said something about the Leafs pulling this, considering how quickly they come down on the Leafs (and most other Canadian teams) for even smaller things? Don't even get me started on the media reaction...
Never said anything about a top 5 pick. Who knows who they would have been able to draft, keep, trade. Just stay the course keep adding assets and make moves when the time was right.

And no, the NHL would not have said a word.
 
The more the cap goes up, the more the contracts follow. The seasons where the worst UFA contacts get signed are the seasons where there's the most open cap space.

The cap going up by 10million adds 320 million into the UFA market and you better believe just about every team is going to spend every penny.

Most of the UFAs would have ended up on the same teams and just taken up the same proportion of the available cap space.

Guess I shouldn't be surprised that understanding this is a stretch for some.

So the Leafs would have an additional $8.5M, the actual thing is so would Tampa, Colorado, Rangers, Panthers, etc. etc. etc. And those teams seem to understand how to spread the salaries out across the the entire roster.

Funny that the poster who called us "knuckle draggers" and "populists" doesn't even understand the basics of economics.
 
Sure but that is not what they did. They fast tracked it and are living off the 4 and not much more up front and in goal.

If the Leafs had been able to draft anything of significance outside of their lottery picks they wouldn't have so much of an issue. I don't think that's a problem of fast-tracking, but rather one of poor scouting and poor development, especially in the Hunter era (with the Dubas era still somewhat TBD).

EDIT - They are also in better shape if Dubas doesn't overpay some of their key guys. I don't want to rehash all the Dubas discussion, just wanted to point out why I don't think their approach was wrong on its own.
 
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If the Leafs had been able to draft anything of significance outside of their lottery picks they wouldn't have so much of an issue. I don't think that's a problem of fast-tracking, but rather one of poor scouting and poor development, especially in the Hunter era (with the Dubas era still somewhat TBD).
Does Dubas have very many picks for the next couple of Drafts or are the Leafs contingent just going for the buffet and cocktails
 
Does Dubas have very many picks for the next couple of Drafts or are the Leafs contingent just going for the buffet and cocktails

This is a sore point for me. It's a buffet, but for the other teams getting to pick out which Leaf draft picks they would like to enjoy.
 
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This is a sore point for me. It's a buffet, but for the other teams getting to pick out which Leaf draft picks they would like to enjoy.
They have 3 this year, 4 ( maybe 5 if zona doesn't use the third) and 6 in 2024 as it stands now.
 
13 of a possible 21 is pretty far off...
Yes, the three this year brings the total down. But possibly 5 of 7 in 23 and 6 of 7 in 24 isn't that bad. Obviously the numbers can change if we bring in or move out some players.
 
Your views are very clear from everything you’ve posted - Dubas is infallible.
I have never said or implied anything close to that. Nobody is infallible. Resorting to lying about me is a clear sign that you don't have a legitimate argument to bring.
That is the premise. It’s harder to understand something that you’ve never experienced.
Not sure why you're switching the premise now, but fact remains that you don't need to have played in the NHL to "know how to win". The B2B cup winning GM and coach would agree.
If you think that a poll encompasses the entirety of our opinions, that’s on you.
You're the one that brought up your assumptions of the unrelated playoff predictions of other people, as if they meant anything. I'm the one who has pointed out how irrelevant it is, and how it's especially ill-advised to bring it up when your own prediction was worse.
The most recent season is by far the most significant season. For players ending their ELCs, it’s almost the only one worth looking at.
That is incorrect. The most recent season is important, but it is far from the only important sample. Contract valuation involves much more than cherry picking one other player's raw points, incorrectly adjusted and contextualized, in exclusively their final season.
The year prior, even though the point totals are 61 to 26, Pastrnak scored at a significantly higher rate at even strength.
It's interesting that you would take a year you claim doesn't even matter, and exaggerate an ES difference of 0.2 P/60, while ignoring the 5.61 P/60 difference on the PP that year.
 
We also have our 1st in each of those years, and we've held on to our top prospects. We've also drafted 30 times in the past 4 years.
Yes, but 37% (11) of those have been 6th or 7th rounders and only 7% (2) were in the the top 50. While I realize there have been late round gems found in the 6th & 7th rounds, the odds are against finding an NHL regular there.
 
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Yes, but 37% (11) of those have been 6th or 7th rounders and only 7% (2) were in the the top 50.
Why would you cut it off at 50, in the middle of a round, other than to exclude a bunch of our 2nd round picks (52, 53, 57, 59)? We've had 10 picks in the top 3 rounds.

Our prospect pool is healthy, especially relative to the phase of competitiveness we are in. That's really all that matters. Teams in our position are going to utilize draft picks.
 
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I have never said or implied anything close to that. Nobody is infallible. Resorting to lying about me is a clear sign that you don't have a legitimate argument to bring.

I just call it like I see it.

Not sure why you're switching the premise now, but fact remains that you don't need to have played in the NHL to "know how to win". The B2B cup winning GM and coach would agree.

That was always the premise. You just tried to build a little straw man to argue against.

You're the one that brought up your assumptions of the unrelated playoff predictions of other people, as if they meant anything. I'm the one who has pointed out how irrelevant it is, and how it's especially ill-advised to bring it up when your own prediction was worse.

Yes I am, and it still holds true. It’s hilarious that you’re cherry-picking my vote in a poll and ignoring hundreds of posts containing my opinion. Almost seems like you don’t believe in sample sizes unless they support Kyle Dubas…

That is incorrect. The most recent season is important, but it is far from the only important sample. Contract valuation involves much more than cherry picking one other player's raw points, incorrectly adjusted and contextualized, in exclusively their final season.

Just like every other argument, you only seem to able to say what things aren’t… will you ever be able to say what they are?

It's interesting that you would take a year you claim doesn't even matter, and exaggerate an ES difference of 0.2 P/60, while ignoring the 5.61 P/60 difference on the PP that year.

It’s interesting that address both of those things in my post and you seem to have cut them out…

Since you believe that season was important, I looked into their usages.

Nylander was given much more ice time on the powerplay. That doesn’t necessarily mean he’s the better scorer. Pastrnak did more with less ice time. The whole point of a negotiation is to pay the player as little as possible. Kyle Dubas should have been looking for all these kinds of things that point to Nylander being a lesser player than Pastrnak.

As I said a dozen posts ago, there are an infinite number of ways to compare players. I realize you’re going to do your usual thing - decide what you have to say to defend Kyle Dubas and then make up your argument. You could at least attempt to be a little more transparent.
 
Keefe also has the best winning percentage in franchise history
Leafs management playoff winning %

Coach Sheldon Keefe

8 playoff wins & 11 playoff losses and 3 X Lost in round #1 = .421 winning %

GM Kyle Dubas
11 playoffs wins & 15 playoff losses and 4 X lost in round #1 = .423 winning %

President Brendan Shanahan
16 playoff wins & 23 playoff losses and 6 X lost in round #1 = .410 winning %

If these were Exam scores they would all be getting D's.

1654956544340.png


A picture is worth 1000 words ...

Here graphically is how Leaf Nation Fans grade vs how individually management grades their own self performance.

1654958083523.png


Best winning % in franchise history = Run it Back 2022-23
 
The more the cap goes up, the more the contracts follow. The seasons where the worst UFA contacts get signed are the seasons where there's the most open cap space.

The cap going up by 10million adds 320 million into the UFA market and you better believe just about every team is going to spend every penny.

Most of the UFAs would have ended up on the same teams and just taken up the same proportion of the available cap space.
I still don't understand why some people think what you are saying is Rocket Science. If cap goes up...salaries for everyone go up...especially for guys at the bottom because you think you can pay it out without worrying so much about strapping your team.
 
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I still don't understand why some people think what you are saying is Rocket Science. If cap goes up...salaries for everyone go up...especially for guys at the bottom because you think you can pay it out without worrying so much about strapping your team.
I think it's debatable that how high would salaries of Spezza, Kampf or Bunting go if cap was bigger. We have signed lots of those cheap picks that have gained more value. Players like Ritchie and Mrazek would have gone up at least few hundred thousand, but we might have got chance to go up one tier in quality of a player (Ritchie contract) with higher cap. Also at the same time all the RFA and UFA contracts of other teams would go up as well and level up the playing field.

Our whole core was basicly signed when covid hit and it was unfortunate, but we have managed fairly well despite of that. One big problem we have is that we failed those 2014-2017 drafts pretty badly and didn't get any cheap ELC players ready for action.
 
I just call it like I see it.
Then you see it incorrectly. Discuss your own opinions. Don't lie about other people's opinions.
That was always the premise.
That was not the premise, but if you want to change it up, it doesn't really matter. The fact remains that you don't need to have played in the NHL to "know how to win".
It’s hilarious that you’re cherry-picking my vote in a poll and ignoring hundreds of posts containing my opinion.
I'm not sure why your vote would be inconsistent with your opinion, but to be clear, the only reason it was brought up in the first place was because you attempted to ignore and/or misrepresent hundreds of posts of my opinion as well as the discussion at hand, to instead attack me for your assumptions of my unrelated playoff prediction. At that point, noting that your playoff prediction was more incorrect than mine is fair game. I'm ready to move past this silly topic whenever you are.
Just like every other argument, you only seem to able to say what things aren’t… will you ever be able to say what they are?
In my discussions, I consistently address both what things are and what things aren't. I have spoken on contract valuation and negotiations a ton, and have done countless comparisons for our core forward contracts - proving them to be consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts. Your statements on both Nylander and contract valuation were wildly inaccurate, and deserved to be called out. Contract valuation involves much more than cherry picking one other player's raw points, incorrectly adjusted and contextualized, in exclusively their final season.
It’s interesting that address both of those things in my post
You didn't address it in your post. You took one season that you claimed is irrelevant, and exaggerated the difference in specifically their ES scoring rates, while completely ignoring the actual massive advantage Nylander had in his PP scoring rates that year. Your only mention of the PP was the difference in their time in that particular season, while conveniently failing to mention that Pastrnak hadn't shown a proficiency on the PP worthy of time.

I'm glad you're able to acknowledge that PP time can skew raw point comparisons though. It's a good first step that many people struggle with.
 
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