Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[ITM]

7.5 on a 6 year deal was on overpay regardless of who caved.

Wasn't it $6.9M (8.4%) x 6 yrs?

It was comparable to Pastrnak (8.1%). An overpay? At the time it was. It's a bargain now and will be reflected as such against his next contract.

Rarely does hindsight provide such a cushion of comfort.

P.S. To those wondering, Nylander "caved" and called minutes before the deadline to Dubas' relief. There's a video/interview to that effect floating around.

 

[Tripledeke333]

If cap hell is what we have, I'll take it.

We can start the year without signing any of our RFAs and still have 5.5 million in cap space.

Bunting - Matthews - Marner
Robertson - Tavares - Holmberg
Kerfoot - Kampf - Nylander
Clifford - Abruzzese - Anderson

Rielly - Brodie
Muzzin - Holl
Gio - Niemela

Mrazek
Kallgren

That's only a 77 million dollar roster and would make the playoffs.

I really think Kerfoot will be out the door after July first, so that will be 9 million to work with.

That is enough to upgrade in goal (Mrazek is likely going out if we bring someone in), resign Liljegren and Sandin (I think either Holl or Sandin are gone), resign Engvall, resign Kasemand sign at least one depth piece.

If Mrazek does not up his game, that roster is in trouble. Finding a reliable goalie is the toughest piece of the puzzle.

 

[Dreakmur]

Wasn't it $6.9M (8.4%) x 6 yrs?

It was comparable to Pastrnak (8.1%). An overpay? At the time it was. It's a bargain now and will be reflected as such against his next contract.

Rarely does hindsight provide such a cushion of comfort.

P.S. To those wondering, Nylander "caved" and called minutes before the deadline to Dubas' relief. There's a video/interview to that effect floating around.

If Nylander just caved in last minute, it was a 7.5 million dollar contract. It dropped to 6.9 because he didn’t fulfill the entirety.

Raw point totals shouldn’t be the basis for comparable contracts anyway, at least not when league wide scoring rates change.

 

[notbias]

That’s a lot of AHL players in your line up……..sure hope it works out

we call them rookies

If Mrazek does not up his game, that roster is in trouble. Finding a reliable goalie is the toughest piece of the puzzle.

We had terrible goaltending this year and finished 4th.

Don't want to start the year with Mrazek, just pointing out the cap issue is hardly an issue

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Well that is a good start.

EDIT: To be clear, he was not fired. His contract expired and they chose not to extend him. There is also no specifications in regards to what they will do to change the group. They have former Marlies Goalie Coach Jon Elkin as their goalie scout, evaluator, and developer. No idea if they look at him as well, but it is more likely his responsibilities change than a straight firing if anything changes.

 

[Dekes For Days]

He had 18 years, which is almost 20. He was director of legal affairs for a couple years.

It was 17 years, which is closer to 15 than 20, especially when some of those years are in a pretty irrelevant role/era. Dubas has also been in hockey for a while, and like Brisebois, was a Calder Cup winning assistant GM prior to becoming a full NHL GM. Both had more management experience and accomplishments than Sakic. And none of this really means anything.

7.5 on a 6 year deal was on overpay regardless of who caved.

He got 6.96m, and it's not an overpay.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

My gut feeling is even if they lose in round one again next year, there will be no changes to management. Keefe will be let go though. Shanahan is in love with Dubas and Tanenbaum seems to have faith in them.

 

[Dekes For Days]

His two biggest mistakes were the Z and Marleau contracts which pale in comparison to the boy genius' mistakes.

Lou had more mistakes than that, and both of those are already infinitely worse and more illogical than anything Dubas has done.

Cap hell was never heard of here until the boy genius worked his magic.

"Cap hell" (which we've never actually been in) wasn't a thing because Lou had all of his most important players on ELCs, and the cap wasn't stagnated...

It's naive to think the Tavares deal had no effect on the Matthews and Marner negotiation strategies.

No it's not. UFA contracts are not comparables for post-ELC contracts.

How many other teams have 3-11 million dollar forwards including every cup winner since the beginning of the NHL

Considering that for most of the NHL's history, there wasn't a cap, and that for almost all of the NHL's cap era, the cap wasn't high enough for 11m contracts, that doesn't actually mean anything. I'm sure you could find obscure, unique things about any team. That doesn't mean they won't win the cup.

 

[Dreakmur]

It was 17 years, which is closer to 15 than 20, especially when some of those years are in a pretty irrelevant role/era. Dubas has also been in hockey for a while, and like Brisebois, was a Calder Cup winning assistant GM prior to becoming a full NHL GM. Both had more management experience and accomplishments than Sakic. And none of this really means anything.

Dubas had way less experience than Brisbois. It's a bad comparison.

Sakic didn't have much management experience, but he had a huge career to draw from. He certainly knows what it takes to win.

He got 6.96m, and it's not an overpay.

Dubas apparently offered 7.5, since Nylander caved and signed the offer.

Even 6.96 was an overpay.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Dubas had way less experience than Brisbois.

You're exaggerating the difference in their prior relevant experience, and the entire point is that it's meaningless anyway - which you seemed to agree with initially.

Sakic didn't have much management experience, but he had a huge career to draw from.

Playing hockey is very different from managing a hockey team, and by that logic, Shanahan would be super experienced too.

Even 6.96 was an overpay.

No it wasn't.

 

[BackPassChampions]

Well that is a good start.

FINALLY.

This was the change I wanted to see.

It’s about time Mr. business pillars of goaltending is gone.

 

[Dreakmur]

You're exaggerating the difference in their prior relevant experience, and the entire point is that it's meaningless anyway - which you seemed to agree with initially.

Their experience doesn't mean that much, but if they fail, it's an easy thing to point to.

Playing hockey is very different from managing a hockey team, and by that logic, Shanahan would be super experienced too.

It is different, but knowing what it takes to win is very helppul.

No it wasn't.

Sure was.

 

[Stephen]

I agree with you. This really isn’t a huge deal, but I was trying to point out that it’s funny Keefe mentioned how much respect possibly was shown during a hand shake but Jon Cooper showed a lack of respect with his words during the series making those comments. Nothing more, this doesn’t need to be dragged out and discussed on multiple pages.

Keefe can be a raging bozo himself. Can’t take his nervous babbling too seriously either.

 

[Stephen]

Well that is a good start.

Finally. Thank you.

 

[LilySmoov]

i'll repeat again the reply of mine you quoted wasn't to Sea of Blue

I guess I must be imagining that it says "SeaOfBlue" at the top of the post you quoted. Like how am I not being trolled at this point?

which started our conversation it was to you who's endlessly going on about how unlucky we are so i'll ask you again to stop making stuff up to argue against and the only reason some keep bringing up our supposedly bad luck is to make an excuse for Dubas for another early exist

Clearly this very straightforward conversation in which I've unambiguously spelled out my exact point(s) repeatedly is still too much for you.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Their experience doesn't mean that much, but if they fail, it's an easy thing to point to.

None have failed, but also, that's contradictory. Either it means something or it doesn't. You can't say something doesn't matter and then attribute the outcome to it.

It is different, but knowing what it takes to win is very helppul.

It's completely different, and you don't need it to know what it takes to win. And again, you can't argue it for Sakic without arguing it for Shanahan.

Sure was.

Sure wasn't.

 

[egd27]

I'm not the biggest Dubas fan but even I can rationalize that he made the Tavares signing under the Salary Cap projections all NHL teams had at that time. I don't know what people want Dubas to do. Go back in time and prevent Covid from happening? It's absolutely shitty that it happened but it's really dumb to assume he could have foreseen that, but before covid the new TNT/ESPN deal was supposed to boost the cap a lot. Prior to covid there was no reason to believe that the cap projections (that are given by the NHL) weren't going to come to fruition.

Sucks that the Leafs were the only team impacted by the pandemic.

Here's a thought.....if the cap had gone up as projected, the players that signed contracts during the covid seasons would have looked for more money, and other teams would have also had more money to compete for UFA's just like the Leafs.

 

[Dekes For Days]

This is good to see. It was the main management-side change I wanted.

 

[Menzinger]

It’s not always how many you give up but when you give them up. How many did he give up in game 6/7? OT?

And how many goalies are guaranteed to stop those pucks? Each of those game was decided by a single goal - defensively that series was as close as you can get

 

[Dreakmur]

None have failed, but also, that's contradictory. Either it means something or it doesn't. You can't say something doesn't matter and then attribute the outcome to it.

You look for any reason so support Dubas. Others look for any reason to attack him, and a lack of experience is a reason.

It's completely different, and you don't need it to know what it takes to win. And again, you can't argue it for Sakic without arguing it for Shanahan.

It's different, but it's still very useful. Yes, Shanahan knows what it takes to win, which is why its so confusing watching him allow this team to get built like it has been.

Sure wasn't.

He was paid more than supposed comparables who probably shouldn't have even been comparables.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

View attachment 557539

I guess I must be imagining that it says "SeaOfBlue" at the top of the post you quoted. Like how am I not being trolled at this point?




Clearly this very straightforward conversation in which I've unambiguously spelled out my exact point(s) repeatedly is still too much for you.

As you can probably guess, I have that guy blocked, and for a good reason.

 

[egd27]

You're exaggerating the difference in their prior relevant experience, and the entire point is that it's meaningless anyway - which you seemed to agree with initially.

No exaggeration here

Brisebois was already a successful sports lawyer when he joined the Canadiens front office in 2001. Dubas was prepping for his G1.

 

[Dekes For Days]

You look for any reason so support Dubas. Others look for any reason to attack him, and a lack of experience is a reason.

I don't care about Dubas. I care about the Leafs. Please don't misrepresent other posters. Prior experience is a bad reason to attack a GM, which you seemed to agree with initially. It really just demonstrates a lack of actual legitimate reason.

It's different, but it's still very useful.

It's completely different and pretty irrelevant.

Yes, Shanahan knows what it takes to win, which is why its so confusing watching him allow this team to get built like it has been.

There's nothing confusing about a great team being built under his watch. He chose a quality GM.

He was paid more than supposed comparables who probably shouldn't have even been comparables.

His contract was consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts.

 

[Dreakmur]

I don't care about Dubas. I care about the Leafs. Please don't misrepresent other posters. Prior experience is a bad reason to attack a GM, which you seemed to agree with initially. It really just demonstrates a lack of actual legitimate reason.

Lacking experience is a potential negative. Lacking experience can't be a positive.

It's completely different and pretty irrelevant.

Yeah, knowing what it takes to win is irrelevant when trying to assemble a winning team....

There's nothing confusing about a great team being built under his watch. He chose a quality GM.

I guess there's a reason that you get surprised by the results every play-offs and others don't.

His contract was consistent with the history of post-ELC contracts.

7.5 x 8 would have been fair. 7.0 x 7, 6.5 x 6, etc.

7.5 x 6 was an overpay.

 

[Nineteen67]

And how many goalies are guaranteed to stop those pucks? Each of those game was decided by a single goal - defensively that series was as close as you can get

The Leafs were so close and would have won if they had buy in and commitment from every player. The investment in period 1 of game 1 is so important when the margins are so close.