Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[Apex Predator]

That's largely just what people who have been lucky say to try and downplay the impact luck had on where they are. If the shot bounces out and we lose, it doesn't mean we were any less prepared, and that opportunity for the shot still existed.

Nothing indicates that we are less prepared than the teams we face.

That’s debatable. Look at Game 4 when they had a really good chance to take a strangle hold on the series. Multiple times throughout the regular season this year they just flat out no showed till the third period.

 

[ACC1224]

The Raps might have been lucky...but Luck is where preparation and opportunity meet.

We are not more prepared than others and thus our team doesn't get the benefit of the bounces. Dubas thinks it just flukey luck....if you keep thinking that...you will end up on the wrong end more often than not.

This is exactly right and a big reason why Keefe should be removed.
Although better this year, the Teams preparation has always been lacking.

 

[Dekes For Days]

That’s debatable. Look at Game 4 when they had a really good chance to take a strangle hold on the series.

You could say that about any game any team loses. Just because a team loses a game or series, it doesn't mean they weren't prepared.

 

[Trapper]

This is exactly right and a big reason why Keefe should be removed.
Although better this year, the Teams preparation has always been lacking.

We don’t win because this core is unable to adapt and ramp it up when the scope of the playoffs change. They play the same all-star regular season game.

Tampa was able to lock it down when the situation called for it. They lost Point in game 7 but collectively changed the game.

Montreal was seriously outgunned but managed to go into a grind it out mode we couldn’t adapt.

Colorado lost Kadri and their starting goaltender but adapted to be in the finals.

Sum of the parts. There is no 2nd gear. We have proven to lose under all those adverse situations.

 

[Gabriel426]

And how do we know the Leafs can't rally after getting past the first round?

Ultimately, we don't know about Keefe and the Leafs. Maybe we get swept in the 2nd round. Maybe we win a Cup. Mentally, the Leafs are capable of either. Skill-wise, we are certainly closer to the latter.

All we know is that the narrative is very different (or at least should be) if that shot doesn't go in and the Raps end up losing the series in OT. Raps don't win a Championship, Leonard walks with nothing to show for it, and the Raps are back to rebuilding and ultimately having no real progress or success before serious regression under Ujiri.

Leafs fans have already called for our current management and coaching collective heads for a lot less.

Hmm, did that lucky bounce happened in the first round?
Did the Raptors not finished the top regular season the next round in 6 games? Did they not beat the reigning Champs in the Finals?
Results matters.
Maybe if the Raptors didn’t win the Championships, Nurse would have been fired by now.

People, myself included, want to replace Keefe bc he still couldn’t help the team advance past the 1st round, despite having one of the most talented teams in the league.

 

[ACC1224]

Hmm, did that lucky bounce happened in the first round?
Did the Raptors not finished the top regular season the next round in 6 games? Did they not beat the reigning Champs in the Finals?
Results matters.
Maybe if the Raptors didn’t win the Championships, Nurse would have been fired by now.

People, myself included, want to replace Keefe bc he still couldn’t help the team advance past the 1st round, despite having one of the most talented teams in the league.

Perhaps they just need a 'luckier' Coach like Nurse?

 

[Gabriel426]

We don’t win because this core is unable to adapt and ramp it up when the scope of the playoffs change. They play the same all-star regular season game.

Tampa was able to lock it down when the situation called for it. They lost Point in game 7 but collectively changed the game.

Montreal was seriously outgunned but managed to go into a grind it out mode we couldn’t adapt.

Colorado lost Kadri and their starting goaltender but adapted to be in the finals.

Sum of the parts. There is no 2nd gear. We have proven to lose under all those adverse situations.

I just think our boys like to use any excuses to say they done their best but couldn’t win. And this year, they just couldn’t find any bc there were none. While Winners just win.
Like Connery said in the Rock, ‘Try your best, prom King goes home and F*** the prom Queen while losers said they tried their best.’ Something like that.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

That's largely just what people who have been lucky say to try and downplay the impact luck had on where they are. If the shot bounces out and we lose, it doesn't mean we were any less prepared, and that opportunity for the shot still existed.

Nothing indicates that we are less prepared than the teams we face.

Your view is the same as Dubas...it's all random and there is almost nothing you can do to increase your odds with luck. I think the opposite. I have been "lucky" in my business career a couple of times where it felt like lightning in a bottle the first time....the second time it happened I started to look a bit more in depth and found it was a confluence of factors that resulted in my "Luck" happening...two of the most important reasons were preparation and opportunity . Until you can digest the fact that most luck is not in fact as random as you think it is...you are going to be disappointed an awful lot of the time.

You put yourself in an advantageous situation by being prepared and seizing that chance. It may look like luck but aside from winning a lottery...most successful people will tell you what I just did.

How does that translate to hockey? Well, Nick Paul was a pretty meh trade to most of us...but TB saw something in him that led them to think he could be a difference maker and lo and behold...he was. It's the little things that add up.

 

[francis246]

Your view is the same as Dubas...it's all random and there is almost nothing you can do to increase your odds with luck. I think the opposite. I have been "lucky" in my business career a couple of times where it felt like lightning in a bottle the first time....the second time it happened I started to look a bit more in depth and found it was a confluence of factors that resulted in my "Luck" happening...two of the most important reasons were preparation and opportunity . Until you can digest the fact that most luck is not in fact as random as you think it is...you are going to be disappointed an awful lot of the time.

You put yourself in an advantageous situation by being prepared and seizing that chance. It may look like luck but aside from winning a lottery...most successful people will tell you what I just did.

How does that translate to hockey? Well, Nick Paul was a pretty meh trade to most of us...but TB saw something in him that led them to think he could be a difference maker and lo and behold...he was. It's the little things that add up.

thank you, this is the exact point I tried to make earlier but I think my post was too long so people probably ignored it.

The Raptors shot wasn't just luck, the fact that it was a player of Kawhi's calibre taking the shot made that shot more probable than if it was just Demar taking that shot or Kyle Lowry or any other player taking that shot. Masai, Webster and the rest of the Raptors organization made moves ahead of the season to prepare themselves for that EXACT MOMENT. Demar was bricking those types of late game shots for years and they finally said, lets get ourselves a guy who can close out come hell or high water.

They drew up that play because they had confidence that if anyone could hit that shot, it would be Kawhi.

 

[Lightsol]

That’s debatable. Look at Game 4 when they had a really good chance to take a strangle hold on the series. Multiple times throughout the regular season this year they just flat out no showed till the third period.

You mean the game where they were down 3-0 less than 5 minutes in and then spent most of the rest of the game on the penalty kill, taking their best players off the ice and prepempting any kind of comeback?

Montreal was seriously outgunned but managed to go into a grind it out mode we couldn’t adapt.

I mean, we were only peppering Carey Price with shots from every-f***ing-where, but I guess that's not good enough...

 

[Lightsol]

Your view is the same as Dubas...it's all random and there is almost nothing you can do to increase your odds with luck. I think the opposite. I have been "lucky" in my business career a couple of times where it felt like lightning in a bottle the first time....the second time it happened I started to look a bit more in depth and found it was a confluence of factors that resulted in my "Luck" happening...two of the most important reasons were preparation and opportunity . Until you can digest the fact that most luck is not in fact as random as you think it is...you are going to be disappointed an awful lot of the time.

You put yourself in an advantageous situation by being prepared and seizing that chance. It may look like luck but aside from winning a lottery...most successful people will tell you what I just did.

How does that translate to hockey? Well, Nick Paul was a pretty meh trade to most of us...but TB saw something in him that led them to think he could be a difference maker and lo and behold...he was. It's the little things that add up.

I'm sorry, but if the Leafs need some luck to win in the playoffs, we should blow it up, fire everybody and banish ourselves to the NHL basement, because this franchise is cursed.

 

[fahad203]

thank you, this is the exact point I tried to make earlier but I think my post was too long so people probably ignored it.

The Raptors shot wasn't just luck, the fact that it was a player of Kawhi's calibre taking the shot made that shot more probable than if it was just Demar taking that shot or Kyle Lowry or any other player taking that shot. Masai, Webster and the rest of the Raptors organization made moves ahead of the season to prepare themselves for that EXACT MOMENT. Demar was bricking those types of late game shots for years and they finally said, lets get ourselves a guy who can close out come hell or high water.

They drew up that play because they had confidence that if anyone could hit that shot, it would be Kawhi.

Raptors are the perfect example of a team fortune favors the bold. Ujiri didn't make the trade if he didn't think Kawahi could add value. He knew the team needed shake up and coach wasn't going to do it and neither was Derozen

Sometimes good enough is not good enough. Raptors were just good enough to compete but good enough to win

It's also matter of pride. Kawhi is on a different level when it comes to competing. He owned his role, he thrive on it and it was him who took it to Gianis

I have friends who tell me well they got lucky that Thompson got hurt and they were missing their best player in the finals. Yes but the Raps created their luck by getting it to the finals. That's what you do, you do your part and see what happens.

Raps faced Giannis, Thompson night in night out. Kawhi doesn't and didn't care. Because he knew he was the shark. A shark doesn't care if it's monday or tuesday, A shark is a shark every day of the week

Leafs don't even do their part. I have yet to see Matthews own a game in playoffs. A game where he pushes the agenda, where he's the alpha. He's our best player, if he's not doing that, we dont' have a chance

Tampa may have been stanly cup winners but they were very beatable. We had them by the throat. I don't remember anything from Matthews in game 7

 

[Apex Predator]

You mean the game where they were down 3-0 less than 5 minutes in and then spent most of the rest of the game on the penalty kill, taking their best players off the ice and prepempting any kind of comeback?


I mean, we were only peppering Carey Price with shots from every-f***ing-where, but I guess that's not good enough...

You can blame the refs all you want but they fell behind 3-0 right from the get go before all the penalties became an issue.

 

[Stigma]

Your view is the same as Dubas...it's all random and there is almost nothing you can do to increase your odds with luck. I think the opposite. I have been "lucky" in my business career a couple of times where it felt like lightning in a bottle the first time....the second time it happened I started to look a bit more in depth and found it was a confluence of factors that resulted in my "Luck" happening...two of the most important reasons were preparation and opportunity . Until you can digest the fact that most luck is not in fact as random as you think it is...you are going to be disappointed an awful lot of the time.

You put yourself in an advantageous situation by being prepared and seizing that chance. It may look like luck but aside from winning a lottery...most successful people will tell you what I just did.

How does that translate to hockey? Well, Nick Paul was a pretty meh trade to most of us...but TB saw something in him that led them to think he could be a difference maker and lo and behold...he was. It's the little things that add up.

Nice post. You just shared one of the secrets of the Matrix.

 

[Gabriel426]

If the excuse of being unlucky that’s why Leafs failed to advance 6 yrs in a row and 3 yrs under Keefe. Then what’s the point of even drafting and developing, let’s just hope we get lucky.
You create your own luck and put yourself in the position to take advantage of such luck.
Point being injured and couldn’t play in two periods of the elimination game was luck that Leafs didn’t take advantage.
Playing against their own Zamboni driver was luck that the Leafs didn’t take advantage.
Being up 3-1 in a series and playing Game 5 at home with last line change was luck that didn’t take advantage.
McD and Drai are two players who made their own luck and their stats showed it.

The team did performed better than last few playoffs but they still could not pass the first round and far from being the Champ.

 

[Dreakmur]

If the excuse of being unlucky that’s why Leafs failed to advance 6 yrs in a row and 3 yrs under Keefe. Then what’s the point of even drafting and developing, let’s just hope we get lucky.
You create your own luck and put yourself in the position to take advantage of such luck.
Point being injured and couldn’t play in two periods of the elimination game was luck that Leafs didn’t take advantage.
Playing against their own Zamboni driver was luck that the Leafs didn’t take advantage.
Being up 3-1 in a series and playing Game 5 at home with last line change was luck that didn’t take advantage.
McD and Drai are two players who made their own luck and their stats showed it.

The team did performed better than last few playoffs but they still could not pass the first round and far from being the Champ.

There is an element of luck. Staying healthy on a long playoff run takes a bit of luck. There is a certain randomness to a hockey games. The idea that you build a team that’s good enough to compete and hope to get the luck isn’t a bad plan. I just don’t think we’ve built that team yet.

 

[rocketman588]

Raptors are the perfect example of a team fortune favors the bold. Ujiri didn't make the trade if he didn't think Kawahi could add value. He knew the team needed shake up and coach wasn't going to do it and neither was Derozen

Sometimes good enough is not good enough. Raptors were just good enough to compete but good enough to win

It's also matter of pride. Kawhi is on a different level when it comes to competing. He owned his role, he thrive on it and it was him who took it to Gianis

I have friends who tell me well they got lucky that Thompson got hurt and they were missing their best player in the finals. Yes but the Raps created their luck by getting it to the finals. That's what you do, you do your part and see what happens.

Raps faced Giannis, Thompson night in night out. Kawhi doesn't and didn't care. Because he knew he was the shark. A shark doesn't care if it's monday or tuesday, A shark is a shark every day of the week

Leafs don't even do their part. I have yet to see Matthews own a game in playoffs. A game where he pushes the agenda, where he's the alpha. He's our best player, if he's not doing that, we dont' have a chance

Tampa may have been stanly cup winners but they were very beatable. We had them by the throat. I don't remember anything from Matthews in game 7

The crazy thing about that series is watch the open gym episode vs golden state.

Team wins the first game they played in SF and are celebrating. Kawhi basically tells them to stfu because they're there to get two.

Contrast that with the leafs attitude vs Tampa

 

[notbias]

The crazy thing about that series is watch the open gym episode vs golden state.

Team wins the first game they played in SF and are celebrating. Kawhi basically tells them to stfu because they're there to get two.

Contrast that with the leafs attitude vs Tampa

Mind posting the lockerroom footage of the Leafs from the Tampa series?

 

[rocketman588]

Mind posting the lockerroom footage of the Leafs from the Tampa series?

I don't need to our idiot coach told us that the game 4 blow out was acceptable because we got the split in the post game press conference.

It's ok though we went on to recover from that thought process to go all the way to game 7 and get respect in the handshake line

 

[notbias]

I don't need to our idiot coach told us that the game 4 blow out was acceptable because we got the split in the post game press conference.

Acceptable does not mean that was the goal or that they celebrated it, anyway, just was curious if there was some insight or just more speculation

 

[Lightsol]

Raptors are the perfect example of a team fortune favors the bold. Ujiri didn't make the trade if he didn't think Kawahi could add value. He knew the team needed shake up and coach wasn't going to do it and neither was Derozen

Sometimes good enough is not good enough. Raptors were just good enough to compete but good enough to win

Comparing the Raptors to the Leafs is a very bad comparison, though. The Raptors were repeatedly acknowledged as a very good team that lacked a game-breaking superstar.; Derozan wasn't good enough. The Leafs are not like that; they have two of the top 10 players in the NHL; any trade you're likely to try and make with Matthews or Marner is, unlike the Raptors, going to be for a player worse than the two of them, unless you get something stupid like Edmonton offering McDavid or something. So when you say "They need to make a Raptors like bold move!", you're saying one of two things:
- Trade Matthews or Marner and hope to God that the trade doesn't make the team worse due to the loss of what those two guys bring
- Trade Nylander for an upgrade (because he's the only one who is actually feasible to trade AND you might be able to upgrade on) and hope it doesn't screw the cap up even worse

 

[horner]

Another great coach on the market
Don Sweeny fired as the Bruins coach.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Nice post. You just shared one of the secrets of the Matrix.

Always have good special effects people hiding behind you.

 

[Gabriel426]

There is an element of luck. Staying healthy on a long playoff run takes a bit of luck. There is a certain randomness to a hockey games. The idea that you build a team that’s good enough to compete and hope to get the luck isn’t a bad plan. I just don’t think we’ve built that team yet.

Luck is involve in everything but you still need to be in a position to take advantage of it.
Let’s say you have numbers in mind for Lotto Max but you don’t have the money or time to buy the ticket. Even if those numbers won, you didn’t Win anything.

Talent wise, I think the team is capable of winning in the playoffs and even the Cup but can they do it? It is not luck that they can’t do it but rather quite a few things, coaching being one, players mentality being another.

Comparing the Raptors to the Leafs is a very bad comparison, though. The Raptors were repeatedly acknowledged as a very good team that lacked a game-breaking superstar.; Derozan wasn't good enough. The Leafs are not like that; they have two of the top 10 players in the NHL; any trade you're likely to try and make with Matthews or Marner is, unlike the Raptors, going to be for a player worse than the two of them, unless you get something stupid like Edmonton offering McDavid or something. So when you say "They need to make a Raptors like bold move!", you're saying one of two things:
- Trade Matthews or Marner and hope to God that the trade doesn't make the team worse due to the loss of what those two guys bring
- Trade Nylander for an upgrade (because he's the only one who is actually feasible to trade AND you might be able to upgrade on) and hope it doesn't screw the cap up even worse

What about MM for Helly?
Top 5 winger for a top 5 goalie.
Then try to Malkin over for that Championship DNA.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Raptors are the perfect example of a team fortune favors the bold. Ujiri didn't make the trade if he didn't think Kawahi could add value. He knew the team needed shake up and coach wasn't going to do it and neither was Derozen

Sometimes good enough is not good enough. Raptors were just good enough to compete but good enough to win

It's also matter of pride. Kawhi is on a different level when it comes to competing. He owned his role, he thrive on it and it was him who took it to Gianis

I have friends who tell me well they got lucky that Thompson got hurt and they were missing their best player in the finals. Yes but the Raps created their luck by getting it to the finals. That's what you do, you do your part and see what happens.

Raps faced Giannis, Thompson night in night out. Kawhi doesn't and didn't care. Because he knew he was the shark. A shark doesn't care if it's monday or tuesday, A shark is a shark every day of the week

Leafs don't even do their part. I have yet to see Matthews own a game in playoffs. A game where he pushes the agenda, where he's the alpha. He's our best player, if he's not doing that, we dont' have a chance

Tampa may have been stanly cup winners but they were very beatable. We had them by the throat. I don't remember anything from Matthews in game 7

I hope I am wrong about Matthews but...it sure doesn't seem like he rises to the occasion for us. Outside of the series against Washington....I really have a hard time remembering him making a splash in a game where we needed him to do something to lift the team. Winning 5-0 in the first game and getting 2 goals was nice and all...but it wasn't a super important game.

The problem with this team in general is that they are like water and want the path of least resistance. "Up a game or 2 in a series...take the night off...there will be other chances". That attitude seems to bubble up on us all the time. How do you kill it? Who is responsible? I don't know...but it's real.