Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[PromisedLand]

I got a very zen vibe from the group through these pressers. they have relinquished their attachments; things like wins and losses no longer affect them; they have transcended such dichotomies. very interesting.

PATHETIC Loser Culture allowed to foster by Loser President and Loser GM.

Take a break from the Leafs. I will be too until this sham of the management is cleaned out by MLSE

 

[HolyCrap]

What a mistake. We will be back here same time next year wondering if they are going to run it back again for the 8th year

Yeah I feel this is an organizational issue. When management isn’t worried about their jobs then it’s just a show up and not worry attitude and MLSE has plenty of cash. I bet this runs down to the players as well. I guess there is the odd fan who only cares about regular season but the vast majority of us care about the playoffs.

 

[Superstar]

I can't wait to see how much respect we get at the handshake line next year

This year it's small case letters, next year might be all caps.

 

[egd27]

100% will be their last shot.

One more loss in round 1 and they're all fired on the same day.

Did you copy/paste that from last year?

 

[m1ker]

I still want to know what exactly progressed? Was it our pp? 5v5? Goal tending? Transition?

 

[AustonMarner]

Keefe should be gone for sure. Maybe the Leafs could bring back Mike Babcock... he's still under contract right???

 

[ShaneFalco]

It's astonishing that any large company would look at a track record of high-level, very well compensated managers and see nothing but failed expectations and say, "Okay, guys, keep it up and we'll see you at the end of next quarter."

What better way to push a team to finally get past whatever is holding them back by continuously patting them on the back? If there is no accountability for failure, and clearly there isn't when it comes to the president, GM and coach, then how worried are the players about being held accountable?

DeBoer and Trotz miss the playoffs after taking their teams deep twice in previous seasons and they're fired this year for missing the playoffs. Keefe, coaching a stronger (regular season) team than both Vegas and the Isles, leads his team to a first round exit 3 years running (all against lower seeds) and he's given a pat on the back and "Don't worry buddy, you're going to be a great coach in 10 years!"

As for the players, just one of many examples, how worried is Nylander that despite repeatedly doing everything he can to avoid physical contact throughout his career and never once (that I recall) even being benched for a shift or two to send a message, that somehow he has to change that? He's not worried, he's learned that in the Leafs organization, there is no accountability, no one that will call him out.

When people talk about the Leafs team being soft, it is little wonder why? The organization is soft, from the very top down.

Keefe should be gone for sure. Maybe the Leafs could bring back Mike Babcock... he's still under contract right???

That's on Shanny

 

[Menzinger]

And what happens if we play Tampa again next year?

They'll have a different roster that hopefully helps them further fix some remaining issues and ultimately hope they get the right bounces at the right time.

There's nothing a front office can do to guarantee a first round playoff victory. Especially in hockey

 

[Al14]

That's on Shanny

And it's a disgrace on Shanahan to be in charge of a soft team that does NOT reflect the way he played hockey. Shame on you Brendan Shanahan for making a mockery of our Leafs !!! GTFO and go live with your family in NJ. You are not even a proper resident of Toronto !!!

Yep, my anger about losing again in the first round is still there !!!

 

[genk]

Imagine having such a smooth brain to think that management should be fired. This is the deepest, most talented Leafs team ever assembled. Hockey is, and always will be, an extremely random sport with incredible amount of variance.

Oh, it’s also difficult to beat arguably the best team in the league in a seven game series when the league gifts one goal to the opposing team, while stealing one from ours.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Good to know that you finally acknowledge that you're satisfied with constant 1st round exists.

Try reading it again. I said I predicted it. Nothing about whether I was satisfied.

 

[kevsh]

Might as well burn all the AM years I guess.

And that's exactly the problem.
Shanahan, Dubas and Keefe are all very replaceable. Good GMs and coaches are not exactly a rarity. But a player of Matthew's skill level comes along very rarely (Toronto's only had one in the modern era).

Auston is worth more to this organization than those 3 combined. So MLSE is taking a huge gamble that even though they have one more season until the likely re-signing talks begin with AM34, that they'll give this group one more season to do something to convince him this organization is a winner.

I'd say considering then the importance of success next year there'll be ever more pressure on this group to win - clearly MLSE is making the gamble that this group will get it done and Auston will re-sign happily. However, if gambling the future of your franchise player doesn't pay off, this organization is so weak, I'm not sure that even Matthews leaving and citing (politely) the losing mentality here that anything will change.
At the very least, their year-end pressers haven't.

 

[rocketman588]

Keefe should be gone for sure. Maybe the Leafs could bring back Mike Babcock... he's still under contract right???

He's too mean for our superstars

They had to go run to dubas to tell him to be nice to them

 

[Stephen]

They weren't his dream team though even, Arizona was.

We were just lucky to get him, he's gonna leave here with the Calder, Hart, Rockets, Ted Lindsay and at least 1 60 goal season on the resume and currently 33 pts in 39GP, maybe finishes with a pt/game in playoffs if he can finish his next 2 1st series like he did this last one.

Unlikely anyone remembers Matthews anything other than an elite talent that left because we could never figure out the supporting cast, every great needs it.

Ovechkin was amazing but took Washington a while to figure out Semin, Green, Varlamov etc weren't gonna be the ones to help put the team over the top. They drafted and developed more talent, found some good trades in Oshie, signed good UFAs etc.

Teams generally keep adding, Blues lost Backes but found a way to add Brayden Schenn and ROR in short order.

Tampa managed to add Sergachev and McDonagh.

We're losing more talent than we're gaining most years and no sure things in the pipeline to help our current core.

I'm pretty Zen about it. I think if Matthews wants to be that kind of Lemieux/Crosby/Sakic/Ovechkin/Yzerman franchise superstar foundation piece from day one and grow into a Cup champion, the story line says he stays here. He eventually breaks through and wins a cup for an Original Six team, finishes with all the scoring records and they build a statue bigger than all of Legends Row combined finishing as a Leaf for Life. We all talk about the adversity and overcoming and being a absolute legend of the game.

He can leave town and go sell the game the desert or to LA or New York. But every stage is smaller than this one and he'll have left town with the reputation that he couldn't hack it in Toronto. He can have success elsewhere too, but will he be riding on the coat tails of another group? What if it doesn't work out there either a la Tavares in Toronto? And then it will be someone else who eventually does it here in Toronto and wins the cup. And that other guy will be our all-time Leaf.

I just don't buy the notion that he would be running away from our Leaf problem. This whole Shanaplan era is basically about his own climb as a star player.

 

[Daisy Jane]

If I am Matthews and the team still hasn't advanced next season beyond round 1, I am not signing that extension.

why? washington couldn't get it done for years. and yet Ovie stayed and got it done there. first round or 2nd round or third round it's not winning the 4th round so let's not say "it's different." Washington perpetually were seen as a team that couldn't get it done, until they got it done. Ovie stayed to win it there. I don't understand why people are like OH WELL MATTHEWS IS GONNA GO. well what if he wants to stay [and let's just be clear, it's not like Matthews was perfection all several losses either, he has some goat horns to wear too]. and if he leaves, okay he leaves. move on.

I didn't watch the entire video. but what Shanahan said was that they won't be making changes - to make changes. but he never said everyone was safe. (Im also wondering what people were expecting - Shanahan to stroll up and like right there say "Well Kyle this saves me a phone call, you're fired, questions?" like come on y'all.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Imagine having such a smooth brain to think that management should be fired. This is the deepest, most talented Leafs team ever assembled. Hockey is, and always will be, an extremely random sport with incredible amount of variance.

Oh, it’s also difficult to beat arguably the best team in the league in a seven game series when the league gifts one goal to the opposing team, while stealing one from ours.

Is this a joke?

 

[WTFMAN99]

I'm pretty Zen about it. I think if Matthews wants to be that kind of Lemieux/Crosby/Sakic/Ovechkin/Yzerman franchise superstar foundation piece from day one and grow into a Cup champion, the story line says he stays here. He eventually breaks through and wins a cup for an Original Six team, finishes with all the scoring records and they build a statue bigger than all of Legends Row combined finishing as a Leaf for Life. We all talk about the adversity and overcoming and being a absolute legend of the game.

He can leave town and go sell the game the desert or to LA or New York. But every stage is smaller than this one and he'll have left town with the reputation that he couldn't hack it in Toronto. He can have success elsewhere too, but will he be riding on the coat tails of another group? What if it doesn't work out there either a la Tavares in Toronto? And then it will be someone else who eventually does it here in Toronto and wins the cup. And that other guy will be our all-time Leaf.

I just don't buy the notion that he would be running away from our Leaf problem. This whole Shanaplan era is basically about his own climb as a star player.

The last part is kind of a problem to be honest....a lot of individual stories and not a lot of team...Lou always pushed the team. Not to turn it into a Lou vs Dubas though and to Matthews credit, he always talks about the team.

Playing Devil's advocate as well...I think we've always been able to retain guys, no one has left. We couldn't fit JVR, Gardiner but they would have stayed. Kessel, Phaneuf etc all stayed.

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Imagine having such a smooth brain to think that management should be fired. This is the deepest, most talented Leafs team ever assembled. Hockey is, and always will be, an extremely random sport with incredible amount of variance.

What possible other metric should a non-rebuilding NHL team be evaluated on, other than by playoff success?

Oh, it’s also difficult to beat arguably the best team in the league in a seven game series when the league gifts one goal to the opposing team, while stealing one from ours.

NHL players and staff are grown adults, for the most part. This is not a try-hard, participation-trophy-holding, everyone-gets-an-cookie league and it never has been.

No one cares about the dog eating their homework stuff once it becomes a recurring pattern and not an isolated event. I don't tolerate it from people that work under me, and neither should any of you tolerate it from your NHL team.

 

[Brown Dog]

The smugness and divisiveness around here is almost as exhausting and disappointing as the team's playoff performance.

So tired of these pro and anti Dubas "camps" where every conversation devolves into a confirmation bias pissing contest. Last time I checked we're all Leaf fans. Why does it seem like so many people around here are way more invested in validating their opinion about the competence of management than in seeing the team succeed?

Oh, and nobody gives a f*** if you're not going to watch regular season games next year so you can go ahead and stop announcing that shit.

 

[ShaneFalco]

What possible other metric should a non-rebuilding NHL team be evaluated, other than by playoff success?

NHL players and staff are grown adults, for the most part. This is not a try-hard, participation-trophy-holding, everyone-gets-an-cookie league and it never has been.

No one cares about the dog eating their homework stuff once it becomes a recurring pattern and not an isolated event. I don't tolerate it from people that work under me, and neither should any of you tolerate it from your NHL team.

Like 100 times

 

[2 Slick]

Oh, and nobody gives a f*** if you're not going to watch regular season games next year so you can go ahead and stop announcing that shit.

We know management certainly doesn't care either, so why should anyone else care? Complacency is king here. Moral victory trophies for every one next season, can't wait to see how many they win.

 

[Stephen]

The last part is kind of a problem to be honest....a lot of individual stories and not a lot of team...Lou always pushed the team. Not to turn it into a Lou vs Dubas though and to Matthews credit, he always talks about the team.

Playing Devil's advocate as well...I think we've always been able to retain guys, no one has left. We couldn't fit JVR, Gardiner but they would have stayed. Kessel, Phaneuf etc all stayed.

The Big 4 is structured a bit more like a basketball team than a typical hockey build in some ways, but even in this sport the championship climb can often be attached to the rise of a special player. Especially first overall picks.

I just think a guy who has been the foundation of everything that has been built in Toronto over the past half dozen years knows he's basically the franchise. And it's an important franchise. To go somewhere else cause the going got tough just doesn't seem like the legacy making move.

 

[AustonMarner]

He's too mean for our superstars

They had to go run to dubas to tell him to be nice to them

Any news on the Marner car jacking?

 

[Carltons Cup]

Shanny, Dubie and Keefer are going to join the boys in Muskoka at JT's cottage and sit around the campfire singing Kumbaya.

 

[WTFMAN99]

why? washington couldn't get it done for years. and yet Ovie stayed and got it done there. first round or 2nd round or third round it's not winning the 4th round so let's not say "it's different." Washington perpetually were seen as a team that couldn't get it done, until they got it done. Ovie stayed to win it there. I don't understand why people are like OH WELL MATTHEWS IS GONNA GO. well what if he wants to stay [and let's just be clear, it's not like Matthews was perfection all several losses either, he has some goat horns to wear too]. and if he leaves, okay he leaves. move on.

I didn't watch the entire video. but what Shanahan said was that they won't be making changes - to make changes. but he never said everyone was safe. (Im also wondering what people were expecting - Shanahan to stroll up and like right there say "Well Kyle this saves me a phone call, you're fired, questions?" like come on y'all.

So Ovechkin was signed to a 13 year contract extension as an RFA, he's not going to UFA like Matthews. His 3rd year they made the playoffs and 4th year they won a round. He likely felt like there was some progress. We got to 1st round right away with Matthews and haven't done anything since.

The Big 4 is structured a bit more like a basketball team than a typical hockey build in some ways, but even in this sport the championship climb can often be attached to the rise of a special player. Especially first overall picks.

I just think a guy who has been the foundation of everything that has been built in Toronto over the past half dozen years knows he's basically the franchise. And it's an important franchise. To go somewhere else cause the going got tough just doesn't seem like the legacy making move.

The basketball build is looking highly questionable at this point.

Legacy stuff won't be a big deal ultimately. If you're Matthews, you'd rather have a cup than not. Don't think he's gonna wake up in his 40-50's with 1-2 cup rings and 100M in the bank in the with the night sweats regretting leaving Toronto.