Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[Buds17]

This news really isn't unexpected. I very much hope that continued employment beyond this season is conditionally based upon the team finally winning a round in the playoffs though.

 

[Carltons Cup]

10/10 times now the vast majority of the core here has had a chance to eliminate a team and failed 100% of the time.

4 1st round losses

We don't wanna make major changes, we're bringing back the same coach and GM.

What the actual ****?

Universal studios has the rights to this best selling movie

 

[Leafblooded]

And the sky is blue, what else is new? Such a bore this organization has become. Where is the accountability? Where is the desire to win? They've just become so stagnant and complacent again. Same formula, same results, coming your way next season!

 

[Lemontree]

LOL, not sure if serious. I can't be bothered to waste my time on all these individually but at the time, many of there moves were received very well by fans. The best example if perhaps Kapanen for a 1st - widely viewed as a steal for the Leafs. He's made mistakes for sure but everyone makes mistakes, a 1st for Foligno for example, I didn't like it at the time and it didn't work out well but most people here thought it was a great move - gotta go allin blah blah blah.

He made some good moves too, Dubas completely rebuilt the defence, that's a number of moves there, not going to bother listing them one by one.

Look at the roster when Dubas took over and look at the roster today, you tell me which one you prefer. And while I'm not happy with all the futures he traded away last season, I'm very happy that we haven't traded any top prospects with Dubas in charge and this season we didn't trade any first round picks as well while pretty much all the other contenders did.


Link?

So you wanted examples of mismanagement from Dubas and when some of them were pointed out you couldn’t be bothered to respond to those moves. You hide behind lots of posters here liked those moves…..No, they didn’t just the same Dubas supporters who thumbs up every move he makes. There was almost no one on this board that liked the Foligno deal at last years deadline.

The D is better under Dubas but the forwards are much worse and he has spent many window years and assets to have the team in the same spot it was handed to him.

 

[Stephen]

So Ovechkin was signed to a 13 year contract extension as an RFA, he's not going to UFA like Matthews. His 3rd year they made the playoffs and 4th year they won a round. He likely felt like there was some progress. We got to 1st round right away with Matthews and haven't done anything since.



The basketball build is looking highly questionable at this point.

Legacy stuff won't be a big deal ultimately. If you're Matthews, you'd rather have a cup than not. Don't think he's gonna wake up in his 40-50's with 1-2 cup rings and 100M in the bank in the with the night sweats regretting leaving Toronto.

The economics of Matthews cup chasing doesn't work at all though.

If he was a UFA right this moment and wanted to make the same salary he makes today at $11.6 million, he can't just go to Colorado or Florida or Tampa and ask to join the band without big star pieces and depth getting pushed out. So he would never join a winning program in progress without completely altering what makes that other program functional.

Second, if he wanted to go to a late stage rebuilder like LA, Anaheim, New Jersey who might have cap space, pull Tavares and catch them on the upswing while guys are still on ELC's, there's no guarantee that group is the winning ticket before all those homegrown stars hit RFA and then you're stuck with no cap.

Third, in a re-signing situation, Toronto would be the only team in the NHL who could give him a modest raise on $11.6 million and be functionally similar on paper since he already takes up so much space.

Fourth, if Matthews was willing to take a big discount to win, he could just do so in Toronto and the Leafs can buy him an expensive teammate.

 

[Nineteen67]

They should be kept with a playoff Ws per SVN * 100/60 = 5













Ws = wins
SVN = 7
5 actually sucks donkey….

 

[Carltons Cup]

On the bright side, Dubie's analytics and stat boy followers has made me understand stats a lot better. Something I was never able to grasp in college.

So there's that.

 

[Eddo22]

Hopefully Keefe gets fired early on in the season rather than later.

 

[WillyC]

I’m glad we’re staying the course and not blowing things up… going after Trotz or replacing Dubas… no thanks, I’ll take this group with another year of growth over a blowup

we were one goal, one period, and one penalty from sending TB home in 6… then it’s us facing Florida tonight in round 2.

115 points is the new benchmark

 

[Shayne Corsi]

We are in the midst of one of the most spectacular periods of futility in NHL history and our management / ownership is so colossally arrogant that they feel justified doing ... nothing?

This is truly the Bryan Colangelo era for TML. I remember that it got so bad at one point nearing the end of his tenure that our media coverage of the raptors was essentially thinly veiled propaganda. The killer bees! Buzz buzz buzz smh

 

[WTFMAN99]

The economics of Matthews cup chasing doesn't work at all though.

If he was a UFA right this moment and wanted to make the same salary he makes today at $11.6 million, he can't just go to Colorado or Florida or Tampa and ask to join the band without big star pieces and depth getting pushed out. So he would never join a winning program in progress without completely altering what makes that other program functional.

Second, if he wanted to go to a late stage rebuilder like LA, Anaheim, New Jersey who might have cap space, pull Tavares and catch them on the upswing while guys are still on ELC's, there's no guarantee that group is the winning ticket before all those homegrown stars hit RFA and then you're stuck with no cap.

Third, in a re-signing situation, Toronto would be the only team in the NHL who could give him a modest raise on $11.6 million and be functionally similar on paper since he already takes up so much space.

Fourth, if Matthews was willing to take a big discount to win, he could just do so in Toronto and the Leafs can buy him an expensive teammate.

I think LAK timing worked out, believe Matthews and Kopitar both hit UFA at the same time. Fairly comparable contracts.

I don't think we're forecasting any of the young guys to hit big $$ like Matthews.

Anaheim is gonna pay Zegras, Drysdale and McTavish...

I think it's projected that CBA is gonna be jumping significantly around the time Matthews is going towards UFA right?

 

[Isaac Nootin]

Good news.

Few changes to player personal, and I'm good.

 

[CelticDruid]

I’m glad we’re staying the course and not blowing things up… going after Trotz or replacing Dubas… no thanks, I’ll take this group with another year of growth over a blowup

we were one goal, one period, and one penalty from sending TB home in 6… then it’s us facing Florida tonight in round 2.

115 points is the new benchmark

And then you woke up

 

[Sniper99]

As expected. Good.

Sure if you love first round exits.

 

[Ciao]

Hopefully there’s some player movement then because it’s obviously not working. They say you have to learn to win obviously they aren’t learning it

There will definitely be player movement, if only because of the salary cap.

 

[Shayne Corsi]

I’m glad we’re staying the course and not blowing things up… going after Trotz or replacing Dubas… no thanks, I’ll take this group with another year of growth over a blowup

we were one goal, one period, and one penalty from sending TB home in 6… then it’s us facing Florida tonight in round 2.

115 points is the new benchmark

It has literally been some iteration of this for SIX straight seasons and, what, NINE elimination games? There is always an accompanying narrative, but that sort of conjures the analogy of needing to have visual art *explained* to you in order to appreciate it.

 

[mikeyz]

Try reading it again. I said I predicted it. Nothing about whether I was satisfied.

And we "The sky is falling" crowd called every single 1st round playoff loss. (This most recent one setting a North American sports record for most consecutive do or die losses in a row)

What's your point?

 

[WTFMAN99]

It has literally been some iteration of this for SIX straight seasons and, what, NINE elimination games? There is always an accompanying narrative, but that sort of conjures the analogy of needing to have visual art *explained* to you in order to appreciate it.

Winners win.

Period.

Calgary got dicked around with penalty calls vs the Stars and prevailed.

 

[Stephen]

I think LAK timing worked out, believe Matthews and Kopitar both hit UFA at the same time. Fairly comparable contracts.

I don't think we're forecasting any of the young guys to hit big $$ like Matthews.

Anaheim is gonna pay Zegras, Drysdale and McTavish...

I think it's projected that CBA is gonna be jumping significantly around the time Matthews is going towards UFA right?

Honestly, I think Leafs fans are just trying to manufacture some Kawhi-type equivalent to scare themselves. The Kings need to spend a lot of money to be an attractive market over the next two years and cap will get chewed up in the mean time. If Matthews' career goal is to live in Los Angeles first and foremost, you can't blame a guy for that. But if he wants to be a Steve Yzerman type franchise player with the storyline and legacy, he's in the right place.

 

[Lightsol]

one of the most spectacular periods of futility in NHL history

Young fan, I'm guessing. Because no old Leaf fan would ever think that. The 80's and the 00's were MUCH, MUCH worse.

 

[Brown Dog]

What the people outraged by this news fail to realize is that change doesn't necessary equal progress. People are angry with the outcome and want to see blood shed. That's it. I get it, but it's dumb.

I think of all the bottom-dwelling NFL franchises that swap out head coaches every two years and then wonder why they're stuck in an endless cycle of mediocrity.

Give the reigns to a management team you have faith in and give them the resources, the autonomy, and the time to execute the vision. If you change horses midstream when things go sideways, you never have a chance.

(And I say this as someone who sees the good and the bad in Dubas's track record and who just wants the Leafs to win.)

 

[leafsfan5]

Imagine having such a smooth brain to think that management should be fired. This is the deepest, most talented Leafs team ever assembled. Hockey is, and always will be, an extremely random sport with incredible amount of variance.

Oh, it’s also difficult to beat arguably the best team in the league in a seven game series when the league gifts one goal to the opposing team, while stealing one from ours.

Crazy how this variance and randomness has never swung our way once in 6 years, eh?

 

[Sniper99]

Why would their jobs ever be on the line? Who could replace them that would be better :s. You guys want shit gms like JFJ and Lou Lam?

Lou Lam wouldnt be stupid to offer what Nylander Tavares Rielly Marner suckered Dufas into paying them.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Dubas/Shanahan staying is an indication that MLSE is buying into whatever their year end comments are about the intentions of their off-season.

What those intentions are remain to be seen, so it's a bit early to say.

Keefe staying is a byproduct of Dubas staying. They could go hard after Trotz, but he'll have a lot of suitors so missing out on him could be tough.

TBH it's a bit refreshing to see a management group be given some rope to learn and adjust as they've gone to build and tweak their vision. Many teams give up before some GM's can really do that.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Honestly, I think Leafs fans are just trying to manufacture some Kawhi-type equivalent to scare themselves. The Kings need to spend a lot of money to be an attractive market over the next two years and cap will get chewed up in the mean time. If Matthews' career goal is to live in Los Angeles first and foremost, you can't blame a guy for that. But if he wants to be a Steve Yzerman type franchise player with the storyline and legacy, he's in the right place.

Anything is possible.

I'd like him to stay, I would like to have success.

I just have a different opinion on how we end up there

I would like Dubas, Shanny, Keefe, 88, JT, Kerfoot, Holl, Muzzin to depart this off-season

That's a lot though, realistically it should have been Keefe being fired today.

The rest today could have been misdirection, however most of the players above I would like to move on from. Change a lot of the team because they were either not good enough or we need to change over from past failures. Tavares is basically never moving, for better or for worse.

Saying they don't want to change for it to be lateral is even surprising. I don't necessarily mind change if it's change, get a player of 88's caliber but not have any of the baggage of today? Done. Or maybe they bring a little less production but make up for it in other areas? Sure. New blood isn't bad.

Dubas/Shanahan staying is an indication that MLSE is buying into whatever their year end comments are about the intentions of their off-season.

What those intentions are remain to be seen, so it's a bit early to say.

Keefe staying is a byproduct of Dubas staying. They could go hard after Trotz, but he'll have a lot of suitors so missing out on him could be tough.

TBH it's a bit refreshing to see a management group be given some rope to learn and adjust as they've gone to build and tweak their vision. Many teams give up before some GM's can really do that.

Bert, you're a really level headed guy. Would you not say Dubas has had ample time to implement his vision at this point? He's had his coach 3 years now. All the Lou "clean up" is surely gone now.