Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[Dreakmur]

That's not true in the slightest. The rest of the season (which was below average QoC) got cancelled right when our completely decimated defense was finally getting healthy, and the lesser games just meant that Babcock's horrific start counted for more.

Just so we’re clear, if you believe that argument, you also have to believe we were a better team than Columbus… and lost to an inferior team in the playoffs…

 

[Dreakmur]

Our cap allocation isn't mismanaged at all. The pandemic-induced flat cap has made life difficult for the overwhelming majority of GMs, but Dubas has maneuvered through it extremely well.

“Maneuvering through it extremely well” should lead to better results than a string of playoff embarrassments… unless the cap was mismanaged.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Just so we’re clear, if you believe that argument, you also have to believe we were a better team than Columbus… and lost to an inferior team in the playoffs…

Just so we're clear, that argument does not necessitate being better than Columbus. Columbus was also at the top of the list for injury impacts that year. I do think we were a better team than Columbus, but Columbus was a pretty good team themselves, and they get a ridiculous amount of disrespect around here.

“Maneuvering through it extremely well” should lead to better results than a string of playoff embarrassments… unless the cap was mismanaged.

Just because we lost in the playoffs, it doesn't mean that we didn't maneuver through the pandemic-induced flat cap well, and it doesn't mean the cap was mismanaged.

 

[fahad203]

Just so we're clear, that argument does not necessitate being better than Columbus. Columbus was also at the top of the list for injury impacts that year. I do think we were a better team than Columbus, but Columbus was a pretty good team themselves, and they get a ridiculous amount of disrespect around here.

Just because we lost in the playoffs, it doesn't mean that we didn't maneuver through the pandemic-induced flat cap well, and it doesn't mean the cap was mismanaged.

While I don't disagree. That's like saying I am solving the problems I created, look how good and smart I am

The cap problem he has, he created it for himself. But you are right though. That's an area he seems to be really good at. No doubt

But I figured by now he has a team of data analysts, finances gurus who is on this on daily basis. He has done a lot of things right and still doing it.

My problem with Dubas has never been his lack of judgement or intent. But rather his inability to make the right move at the right time. He always seems to be doing what's right, when he has tried everything else

 

[Dreakmur]

Just so we're clear, that argument does not necessitate being better than Columbus. Columbus was also at the top of the list for injury impacts that year. I do think we were a better team than Columbus, but Columbus was a pretty good team themselves, and they get a ridiculous amount of disrespect around here.

Yes it does. Either we were a better team under Keefe or we weren’t. Can’t be both depending on which argument you’re trying to spin.

Columbus wouldn’t have made the playoffs in a normal year. They weren’t good at all.

Just because we lost in the playoffs, it doesn't mean that we didn't maneuver through the pandemic-induced flat cap well, and it doesn't mean the cap was mismanaged.

Again, pick a thing. Either we’re cap mismanaged and Dubas did elite level maneuvering… or we aren’t and he didn’t.

 

[Dekes For Days]

While I don't disagree. That's like saying I am solving the problems I created, look how good and smart I am
The cap problem he has, he created it for himself. But you are right though. That's an area he seems to be really good at. No doubt

There's no real "cap problem" though. We are relatively tight to the cap, but so are most other competitive teams, and it hasn't prevented us from creating an excellent, well-balanced team. And if anything created this cap tightness, it's the pandemic-induced flat cap, not Dubas.

 

[ACC1224]

Just so we’re clear, if you believe that argument, you also have to believe we were a better team than Columbus… and lost to an inferior team in the playoffs…

There is not a Leaf fan alive who didn't expect the team to beat Columbus or Montreal.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes it does. Either we were a better team under Keefe or we weren’t.

No, it doesn't. We were a better team under Keefe, but the version of Columbus we faced was better than their record indicated as well. Regardless, I've already said many times that I think we were better than Columbus, so I'm not sure why you're so stuck on this.

Columbus wouldn’t have made the playoffs in a normal year. They weren’t good at all.

This is exactly the type of disrespect that gets thrown at Columbus so that more disrespect can be thrown at Toronto. Columbus was a quality team - the best defensive team in the league that year despite the considerable injuries - and they likely would have made the playoffs if the season ended normally. Especially with the Islanders in freefall.

Either we’re cap mismanaged and Dubas did elite level maneuvering… or we aren’t and he didn’t.

Dubas maneuvering the pandemic-induced flat cap situation well does not equate to our cap being mismanaged.

 

[Dreakmur]

No, it doesn't. We were a better team under Keefe, but the version of Columbus we faced was better than their record indicated as well. Regardless, I've already said many times that I think we were better than Columbus, so I'm not sure why you're so stuck on this.

If we were a better team under Keefe, then we were a lot better than Columbus.

Im stuck in this because you continue to want to pretend that we haven’t repeatedly lost to team that weren’t as good as us. As usual, you’ll take whatever side of whatever argument, no matter how hypocritical, as long as you can make Dubas out to be the hero.

This is exactly the type of disrespect that gets thrown at Columbus so that more disrespect can be thrown at Toronto. Columbus was a quality team - the best defensive team in the league that year despite the considerable injuries - and they likely would have made the playoffs if the season ended normally. Especially with the Islanders in freefall.

Columbus was the 3rd beat defensively and also the 3rd worst offensively.

Who knows what would have happened if they played 82 games, but we do know that Columbus was the 9th seed…. And those don’t make the playoffs in a normal season.

Dubas maneuvering the pandemic-induced flat cap situation well does not equate to our cap being mismanaged.

Flat cap impacted every team’s salary cap the exact same, so while it did reduce our cap space, it did not create a disadvantage for the Leafs. The lack of salary cap space league-wide artificially lowered the value of every contract signed since the flat cap was implemented.

His maneuvering has been good, but it has had to be because of the cap situation he created.

 

[Nineteen67]

Yes, but they still made the playoffs.

That's not true in the slightest. The rest of the season (which was below average QoC) got cancelled right when our completely decimated defense was finally getting healthy, and the lesser games just meant that Babcock's horrific start counted for more. The team was top-16 in the league and top-8 in the conference, and were on the rise if anything. They absolutely deserved to be in the playoffs, under any format.

We've had goalies this whole time, and our window has been open.

He does have a goalie, and we're pre-offseason. There's 4-5 months to establish the goaltending for year 5.

Mrazek is a good platoon goalie, and there was reported interested fairly recently. If we choose to move on, it's unlikely to cost a significant amount, if anything.

Our cap allocation isn't mismanaged at all. The pandemic-induced flat cap has made life difficult for the overwhelming majority of GMs, but Dubas has maneuvered through it extremely well.

Once again, going in to year 5 and the GM is hoping he can find a goalie.

 

[Dekes For Days]

If we were a better team under Keefe, then we were a lot better than Columbus.

Both teams were better than their record at time of stoppage indicated.

Im stuck in this because you continue to want to pretend that we haven’t repeatedly lost to team that weren’t as good as us.

No, I just haven't misrepresented our competition and ignored all relevant context to make things look worse than they are, like you have.

Columbus was the 3rd beat defensively

Columbus was the best defensive team in the league that year.

Who knows what would have happened if they played 82 games

And yet you're out here claiming to know they wouldn't have made it in a normal season.

we do know that Columbus was the 9th seed…. And those don’t make the playoffs in a normal season.

Columbus was only the 9th seed because it was an abnormal season that didn't finish. They were tied for the 6th most points in the Eastern conference at time of stoppage, and even by point percentage, they were tied for 13th best in the league, despite all the injuries. They were a quality of team that usually makes the playoffs.

Flat cap impacted every team’s salary cap the exact same

That's not true in the slightest. Impact of that varied quite a bit, as teams had different levels of commitments made prior to that point, based on a different economic landscape.

 

[justashadowof]

The New York Rangers have won 2 more playoff series than the Toronto Maple Leafs have in the past 5 seasons. And they've bottomed out, held a sell off and made 8 1st round picks.

 

[Dreakmur]

Both teams were better than their record at time of stoppage indicated.

Yeah, Columbus - just after being organ donors - were a really good team….

No, I just haven't misrepresented our competition and ignored all relevant context to make things look worse than they are, like you have.

Always new excuses for the same results.

Columbus was the best defensive team in the league that year.

Dallas and Boston were better.

And yet you're out here claiming to know they wouldn't have made it in a normal season.

I’m claiming they were 9th, which wouldn’t have been a playoff team under the normal playoff format.

Columbus was only the 9th seed because it was an abnormal season that didn't finish. They were tied for the 6th most points in the Eastern conference at time of stoppage, and even by point percentage, they were tied for 13th best in the league, despite all the injuries. They were a quality of team that usually makes the playoffs.

They were 9th in the East. They were a mediocre team.

That's not true in the slightest. Impact of that varied quite a bit, as teams had different levels of commitments made prior to that point, based on a different economic landscape.

However you want to rationalize it. Dubas spent too much cap space in the wrong places.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Always new excuses for the same results.

What you call excuses is actually legitimate context and information that you prefer to ignore because it contradicts your claims.

Dallas and Boston were better.

Dallas and Boston got better goaltending during the season, but we're talking about their defense, not goaltending.

I’m claiming they were 9th, which wouldn’t have been a playoff team under the normal playoff format.
They were 9th in the East. They were a mediocre team.

Again, Columbus was only the 9th seed because it was an abnormal season that didn't finish. They were tied for the 6th most points in the Eastern conference at time of stoppage, and even by point percentage, they were tied for 13th best in the league, despite all the injuries. They were a quality of team that usually makes the playoffs. There's no need to diminish other teams.

Dubas spent too much cap space in the wrong places.

There's really no evidence of that being the case, which is likely why you've chosen not to elaborate further on this than this vague statement.

 

[Racer88]

There's no real "cap problem" though. We are relatively tight to the cap, but so are most other competitive teams, and it hasn't prevented us from creating an excellent, well-balanced team. And if anything created this cap tightness, it's the pandemic-induced flat cap, not Dubas.

I don’t think we are that well balance with 50% spent on 4 similar forwards, we have bargain basement goaltending and do not have the traditional stud on the blue line And our bottom 6 is far below contender status.
yes Covid has stagnated the cap but it has done so for every teams in the League. The problem is and will be Tavares. Not a bad player but no where worth 11 million and simply not need at that time. So in essence Dubas is to blame for incorrectly spending what he did.
as far as evidence that he spent in the wrong area the simple fact that they have crapped out in the first round 6 years in a row. Many various excuses but excuse none the less

 

[ShaneFalco]

Dubas spent too much cap space in the wrong places.

But continues to.double down on his decision

 

[Dreakmur]

What you call excuses is actually legitimate context and information that you prefer to ignore because it contradicts your claims.

My claim is that they lost. That’s a fact.

Dallas and Boston got better goaltending during the season, but we're talking about their defense, not goaltending.

Yet you claim Columbus’ goalie was the reason we lost….

Again, Columbus was only the 9th seed because it was an abnormal season that didn't finish. They were tied for the 6th most points in the Eastern conference at time of stoppage, and even by point percentage, they were tied for 13th best in the league, despite all the injuries. They were a quality of team that usually makes the playoffs. There's no need to diminish other teams.

They were 9th because they were 9th.

There's really no evidence of that being the case, which is likely why you've chosen not to elaborate further on this than this vague statement.

The evidence is in the results. I know, I know, we only lose becaus of bad luck, but maybe if we used our cap space better we’d have better luck.

 

[rocketman588]

Torts is worse than Babs. Gotta give Dubes credit for avoiding him and sticking with his buddy.

Turns out the guy that had won a cup and two Olympics was correct when he tried to get the team to be "good professionals", play system based hockey, put Marner on JTs line and thought having something better then a traffic cone at back to goalie.

Who would have thought he would have known how to win better then a bunch of 20-22 year old kids who had just gotten millions and a GM with one total round win in the OHL

 

[Lightsol]

“Maneuvering through it extremely well” should lead to better results than a string of playoff embarrassments… unless the cap was mismanaged.

Would you guys have preferred we followed the pattern of other teams that took time to figure things out and missed the playoffs entirely a couple of times to break this streak up?

 

[ShaneFalco]

Would you guys have preferred we followed the pattern of other teams that took time to figure things out and missed the playoffs entirely a couple of times to break this streak up?

No would rather have a new GM and coach improve upon where they started and not be without major holes going into next year

 

[Dekes For Days]

My claim is that they lost. That’s a fact.

Your claim stretched far beyond that. They lost their series. That black or white statement is rather meaningless on its own in the context of what's being discussed.

Yet you claim Columbus’ goalie was the reason we lost….

Because their goaltending performance was far better through (at least most of) their playoffs that year. The best defensive team in the league getting 0.950+ goaltending is quite a thing to face, especially when your own goalie is giving up softies.

They were 9th because they were 9th.

They were a playoff team, and a quality of team that almost always makes the playoffs in a normal year, despite some of the biggest injury impacts in the league.

The evidence is in the results.

"We lost" is not evidence for the reasoning for why we lost, which is the thing being claimed.

 

[Dreakmur]

Would you guys have preferred we followed the pattern of other teams that took time to figure things out and missed the playoffs entirely a couple of times to break this streak up?

I would have rather not cut the rebuild short by signing a player we didn’t need at the time.

 

[Dreakmur]

Your claim stretched far beyond that. They lost their series. That black or white statement is rather meaningless on its own in the context of what's being discussed.

My claims what, that we lose because the team isn’t constructed or coached right?

I’m pretty comfortable with that thought process.

Because their goaltending performance was far better through (at least most of) their playoffs that year. The best defensive team in the league getting 0.950+ goaltending is quite a thing to face, especially when your own goalie is giving up softies.

I’m sure it had nothing to do with the Leafs being soft and allowing for easy night by the goalies.

They were a playoff team, and a quality of team that almost always makes the playoffs in a normal year, despite some of the biggest injury impacts in the league.

9th isn’t a playoff team in a normal year.

"We lost" is not evidence for the reasoning for why we lost, which is the thing being claimed.

“We lost” is evidence. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t change the fact. The team isn’t build or coaches properly, and that causes us to lose.

 

[ACC1224]

My claims what, that we lose because the team isn’t constructed or coached right?

I’m pretty comfortable with that thought process.



I’m sure it had nothing to do with the Leafs being soft and allowing for easy night by the goalies.



9th isn’t a playoff team in a normal year.



“We lost” is evidence. Just because you don’t like it doesn’t change the fact. The team isn’t build or coaches properly, and that causes us to lose.

You are absolutely destroying him, probably time to let up.

 

[egd27]

Wow, the Strangers have now passed us since they wrote that letter to their fans. How many wanted Gallant? How many want Trotz? The boy wonder wants Keefer.

Here's one at least