Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[Captain Crunch]

No, it doesn't. We were a better team under Keefe, but the version of Columbus we faced was better than their record indicated as well. Regardless, I've already said many times that I think we were better than Columbus, so I'm not sure why you're so stuck on this.

This is exactly the type of disrespect that gets thrown at Columbus so that more disrespect can be thrown at Toronto. Columbus was a quality team - the best defensive team in the league that year despite the considerable injuries - and they likely would have made the playoffs if the season ended normally. Especially with the Islanders in freefall.

Dubas maneuvering the pandemic-induced flat cap situation well does not equate to our cap being mismanaged.

Please show me the stats to prove that they were the best defensive team that year.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Worse than that even Larry tripled down on Dubie too last summer OMG .. we got 3 more years of these useless clowns .. once Matty leaves in 2 years or he gets MAX 17M per extension either way that should put final fork in them

Good. It’s almost worth it having them around just to read the handful of you melt about it day after day.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I liked Babcock, but he's been out of a coaching job a lone time. I think bit of a slime ball might be understating it. Quenneville was pretty slimy, but he still had a job until all the stuff with Chicago come out.

I don't think Babcock is that great of a coach anymore, as evidenced by no one hiring him.

I think the main reason he has not been hired and probably will never be hired is there are rumors of some nasty stuff he has done over the years hiding in his closet. No team is going to want the embarrassment of having to fire him after one of those stories comes up. Plus...he wasn't that good. He could take a mediocre team and make them pretty good but had a hard time with good teams and making them great.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Teams no longer playing quite obviously do operate that way no matter what the official league calendar says. We've already seen evidence. Before a Cup winner is declared, players can and do officially retire (see Leafs), GMs can and do talk to each other (see rumours), and teams can and do hire and fire coaches and executives (see every team). Trades, while rare, can happen. That all affects 22-23 for those teams, not 21-22.

Teams can do things that affect future years all the time. That doesn't suddenly change what season it is. We are in the 2021-2022 season right now. That is year 4. He has had 4 yearly cycles. There is no reason for anybody to expect next year's goalie situation to be established at this point in time.

It's not exactly difficult to edit webpages. It's actually very easy. We're also no longer in the middle of a pandemic.

This isn't a geocities account, and it's infinitely easier to keep the same page they always use and add on an additional link for the Qualifier round - which is what they did. I'm also not sure why you think they'd go back and change things after the playoffs are over and nobody's going to go back to the page anyway. Wasted resources.

Why should I believe you over the league?

Don't believe me over the league. Believe the league. That's what I've been saying all along.

NHL Records

records.nhl.com

"2019-20: The NHL announces on May 26, 2020, the conclusion of the 2019-20 regular season as well as a modified competitive playoff format that features 24 teams"
"The 2020 Stanley Cup Playoffs begin with the 2020 Stanley Cup Qualifiers, which feature both a Round Robin and Qualifying Round."

Very clear. I don't know why people try to make this more complicated than it is.

By definition, the winners of qualifiers in sports advance to a different tournament or competition.

By the actual definition, it's advancing to a tournament/competition or it's subsequent/final rounds. You seem to have cut off that part.

The NHL goes on to say that "after the Qualifiers, the conference-based playoffs will continue in the two hub cities", which again separates the Qualifiers from the 16-team playoffs.

That doesn't say anything about not being part of the playoffs, and it actually says the opposite. Notice how it says the playoffs will continue? You don't continue things that haven't started.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Please show me the stats to prove that they were the best defensive team that year.

Team Season Totals - Natural Stat Trick

Columbus was #1 with a 2.33 xGA/60, Minnesota was #2 with a 2.38 xGA/60, and Boston was #3 with a 2.48 xGA/60.

 

[hamzarocks]

lol leafs still debating about a 1st round loss from 2 years ago.

f*** CBJ series, we sucked and lost, just like vs Habs, and just like vs Tampa.

Next year is all that matters now. No changes to management/coaching/core so we have to hope this time it works.

Don't have much time left to fix things with Matthews + Nylander's contracts up in 2 years, have to progress forward otherwise we'll be the least successful perennial playoff team in NA sports

Dubas and Co get a 5th chance, they have to make it work otherwise we'll be 1 year away from Scorched Earth

 

[Dreakmur]

That's not what happened at all. We had plenty of quality looks.

The problem was that their goalie got quality looks at our quality looks.

Yes, they played in the playoffs because they were a playoff team, which was pretty normal for the quality of team they were.

They played in the playoffs because the NHL increased the number of teams to include teams. Under normal rules, they miss, since they were the 9th seed.

Not only untrue, but also completely unrelated to the discussion, which was about you making claims about why we lost and then being unable to provide evidence to support that.

I told you why we lost, but you want to deny reality.

 

[Lightsol]

I think the main reason he has not been hired and probably will never be hired is there are rumors of some nasty stuff he has done over the years hiding in his closet. No team is going to want the embarrassment of having to fire him after one of those stories comes up. Plus...he wasn't that good. He could take a mediocre team and make them pretty good but had a hard time with good teams and making them great.

Babcock's coaching style was designed to make inferior players more effective. Every time he's had good players, his team has looked worse than the sum of their parts. That's why his tank team looked better than any team with the Big 3 on it.

 

[keonsbitterness]

Teams can do things that affect future years all the time. That doesn't suddenly change what season it is. We are in the 2021-2022 season right now. That is year 4. He has had 4 yearly cycles. There is no reason for anybody to expect next year's goalie situation to be established at this point in time.

The teams no longer playing are now in 22-23 mode. Seems very self-evident. But if you can name something those teams are doing right now that affects their already-completed 21-22 seasons......I can't believe I even wrote that.

This isn't a geocities account, and it's infinitely easier to keep the same page they always use and add on an additional link for the Qualifier round - which is what they did. I'm also not sure why you think they'd go back and change things after the playoffs are over and nobody's going to go back to the page anyway. Wasted resources.

Go back and change?? If the league was, as you claimed, perfectly clear and consistent regarding the 2020 playoffs, the Qualifiers would have been on that page in the first place. And I'm sure thousands have referenced that page.

Don't believe me over the league. Believe the league. That's what I've been saying all along.

NHL Records

records.nhl.com

"2019-20: The NHL announces on May 26, 2020, the conclusion of the 2019-20 regular season as well as a modified competitive playoff format that features 24 teams"
"The 2020 Stanley Cup Playoffs begin with the 2020 Stanley Cup Qualifiers, which feature both a Round Robin and Qualifying Round."

Very clear. I don't know why people try to make this more complicated than it is.

Hold on a minute -- the two round-robin tournaments, which used regular season rules, and which eliminated no team, were also playoffs? Wow, even more clarity!

By the actual definition, it's advancing to a tournament/competition or it's subsequent/final rounds. You seem to have cut off that part.

Even better! In the World Cup soccer example, the subsequent/final rounds for the 32 teams include a group stage and knockout rounds from 16 teams to an eventual winner. The qualification process to whittle down the 200+ countries down to 32 is related but considered separate from the 32-team tournament. By calling them Stanley Cup Qualifiers, the NHL chose terminology that says the same thing. Thank you for buttressing my case.

That doesn't say anything about not being part of the playoffs, and it actually says the opposite. Notice how it says the playoffs will continue? You don't continue things that haven't started.

Wrong again. The "continue" part clearly refers to Toronto and Edmonton being used for the Stanley Cup Qualifiers and continuing to be used for the 16-team playoff. Nice try.

 

[rocketman588]

Babcock's coaching style was designed to make inferior players more effective. Every time he's had good players, his team has looked worse than the sum of their parts. That's why his tank team looked better than any team with the Big 3 on it.

You realize he won two Olympics and a world cup right?

We sure had some trash on team Canada

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Unfortunately for us, with Dubas’ terrible drafting and cap management, I don’t see next season ending any better for us.

 

[rocketman588]

Unfortunately for us, with Dubas’ terrible drafting and cap management, I don’t see next season ending any better for us.

His prospect pool is so deep though.

That's why he has so many picks of his playing for the squad

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I'm agreeing with you about this and I HATED Babs...but sometimes you hate your Dad until you grow up and realize he wasn't the problem all along....

Correction. Wasn't the ONLY problem but still a problem.

 

[Enniskillen]

I’d like to see a new management and modified core. Six straight first round loses speak for themselves. And of course get rid of regular season keefe.

 

[nuck]

Babcock's coaching style was designed to make inferior players more effective. Every time he's had good players, his team has looked worse than the sum of their parts. That's why his tank team looked better than any team with the Big 3 on it.

Not sure that is exactly right. He had back 100pt seasons and two game 7 playoff runs against a favored
Bruins club. He had pre-peak Marner and Matthews, not this years models.. Barrie instead of Brodie and Hutchinson instead of Campbell. His playoff results except for handshakes were at least as good as Keefes in spite of Kadri taking himself out of two consecutive series. Isn't it reasonable to say the club had a better chance of winning with NK playing? It doesn't make sense to say the first 20 games of 2019-2020 carry more weight than the 320 games before that. His regular seasons were fine, but his playoffs were failures, and that hasn't changed since he left so....

Babs is gone because he was a bit of a prick who had a falling out with his GM, nothing deeper. If a coach and his GM can't agree on the lineup necessary to win thats a problem, and the GM wins that fight every time.

 

[Bomber0104]

Nevermind out-coaching Keefe, I'd hazard to say that Babcock could have also out-GM'd Kyle Dubas over the same time-span of him being employed...

It's literally that bad here.

 

[hfman]

its the muskoka 3

none of them are firing eachother


but after next year's 1st round exit they'll all be flushed out on the same day

 

[Dekes For Days]

The teams no longer playing are now in 22-23 mode.

All teams are in 2021-2022. That's an undeniable fact. Teams can do actions that impact years other than the one they are currently in; that doesn't change what year it is. More importantly, Dubas (which is what this is about) has had 4 seasonal cycles. He has not had the chance to do 5 anything yet, and there should be no expectation that any team's 2022-2023 goalie situation is established at this point.

If the league was, as you claimed, perfectly clear and consistent regarding the 2020 playoffs, the Qualifiers would have been on that page in the first place.

What they chose to do instead was perfectly clear and understandable, even if it's not your preference.

In the World Cup soccer example

This isn't soccer. I don't know why you keep talking about soccer, when the answer is right in front of you. The teams that won the Qualifier went on to a subsequent round of the tournament, which is consistent with the definition.

The "continue" part clearly refers to Toronto and Edmonton being used for the Stanley Cup Qualifiers and continuing to be used for the 16-team playoff.

It literally says the "playoffs will continue". You don't continue something you haven't started.

 

[ACC1224]

The teams no longer playing are now in 22-23 mode. Seems very self-evident. But if you can name something those teams are doing right now that affects their already-completed 21-22 seasons......I can't believe I even wrote that.

Go back and change?? If the league was, as you claimed, perfectly clear and consistent regarding the 2020 playoffs, the Qualifiers would have been on that page in the first place. And I'm sure thousands have referenced that page.

Hold on a minute -- the two round-robin tournaments, which used regular season rules, and which eliminated no team, were also playoffs? Wow, even more clarity!

Even better! In the World Cup soccer example, the subsequent/final rounds for the 32 teams include a group stage and knockout rounds from 16 teams to an eventual winner. The qualification process to whittle down the 200+ countries down to 32 is related but considered separate from the 32-team tournament. By calling them Stanley Cup Qualifiers, the NHL chose terminology that says the same thing. Thank you for buttressing my case.

Wrong again. The "continue" part clearly refers to Toronto and Edmonton being used for the Stanley Cup Qualifiers and continuing to be used for the 16-team playoff. Nice try.

I don’t think anyone that’s being honest considered those knocked out in qualifying to have qualified. That takes some serious stretching to consider teams that failed to qualify as qualifying.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The problem was that their goalie got quality looks at our quality looks.

Except that's not true. Looks were obstructed for a lot of their saves.

They played in the playoffs because the NHL increased the number of teams to include teams. Under normal rules, they miss, since they were the 9th seed.

They played in the playoffs because they were a playoff team, just as a team of that quality would be any year. Under "normal rules", 82 games are played, and a team that is top-8 in the conference in points like Columbus is in the playoffs.

I told you why we lost

No, you made an incorrect claim about why we lost, and have been unable to support it.

 

[Dekes For Days]

I don’t think anyone that’s being honest considered those knocked out in qualifying to have qualified. That takes some serious stretching to consider teams that failed to qualify as qualifying.

Somebody that was being honest would acknowledge that the NHL decides, and the NHL clearly says that it was the playoffs. Some teams failed to qualify for the round of 16, but they were still undeniably playoff teams.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Worse than that even Larry tripled down on Dubie too last summer OMG .. we got 3 more years of these useless clowns .. once Matty leaves in 2 years or he gets MAX 17M per extension either way that should put final fork in them

Dubas got a 4 year contract last year? Do you have a link? Don’t believe I would’ve missed that.

 

[Dreakmur]

Except that's not true. Looks were obstructed for a lot of their saves.

100% what happened. We didn’t get to the net for tips, screens or rebounds. Way too soft as usual.

They played in the playoffs because they were a playoff team, just as a team of that quality would be any year. Under "normal rules", 82 games are played, and a team that is top-8 in the conference in points like Columbus is in the playoffs.

They played in the playoffs as a 9th seed, which was the first and likely only time that ever happens in the history and future of the NHL.

No, you made an incorrect claim about why we lost, and have been unable to support it.

We lost because we are poorly constructed and poorly coached. That is supported by the on ice evidence. I’m not going to put it into pie chart form so the Kyle Dubas brigade of groupies can understand it.

 

[Drytoast]

Game 7 26-13 tampa
Game 6 21-21
Game 5 16-7 Tampa
Game 4 21-8 leafs
Game 3 17-9 leafs
Game 2 17-8 TB
Game 1 26-10 leafs

We played dicks out game one. Honestly if we bottle that we probably win the cup idk why we can't reach that effort level every playoff game

It's almost as if on the other side of the ice you have a 2 time Stanley cup champion calibre team that's going to try and prevent you from playing "dicks out"

 

[ToneDog]

Babcock's coaching style was designed to make inferior players more effective. Every time he's had good players, his team has looked worse than the sum of their parts. That's why his tank team looked better than any team with the Big 3 on it.

Clearly not true and shows your slanted view. Tthat team looked better than the one that took the Caps to 6 losing 3 in OT. Come on man.