Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[zeke]

I think we're in danger of being those Senators. They mismanaged the pieces they had and failed to identify goaltending except in the one year they had Hasek.

I mean...Zdeno Chara...ouch.

Those senators kept moving core pieces. Chara, Hossa, Havlat, Yashin, etc.

We should probably not follow their example.

 

[zeke]

I agree he was the biggest difference. They couldn't understand why they were not winning with all those pieces in place. I saw that Russian 5 movie and Shanny seemed to be so enamored with them that he forgot they didn't win until a good ole canadian boy showed up and rang that bell for them. It wasn't toughness...it was leadership...never quit etc.

Shanahan's grit was nice and all, but the fact that he led the Wings in goals AND points was probably more important.

 

[justashadowof]

RRielly

Rielly never used a slur. He used the term "rag it" which is a common term in hockey for retaining posession to run the time out. Other players on the opposition and the refs confirmed it when investigated by the league. That's why there was no discipline.

Toronto Maple Leafs Morgan Rielly Avoids Suspension - Last Word On Hockey

I'm pretty sure Rielly represented at the pride parades before that even happened too

I don't care if he did or didn't and I was glad there was an out of the controversy but why pray tell would he yell rag it at an opposition player?

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

I don't care if he did or didn't and I was glad there was an out of the controversy but why pray tell would he yell rag it at an opposition player?

I didn't say that he yelled it at an opposing player. Just that opposing players on the ice confirmed to the league during the investigation that he used the term "rag it".

 

[justashadowof]

I didn't say that he yelled it at an opposing player. Just that opposing players on the ice confirmed to the league during the investigation that he used the term "rag it".

Correction: at the referee not an opposing player. Go see it. It's not that he didn't yell something at the referee, and there's no reason he'd yell "rag it" at a referee, it's that the people with the power destroy Rielly's career allowed the incident to pass.

 

[AllHeartNoSkill]

I think we're in danger of being those Senators. They mismanaged the pieces they had and failed to identify goaltending except in the one year they had Hasek.

I mean...Zdeno Chara...ouch.

If I recall, because of the cap they could only keep one of Chara and Redden and they stuck with Redden.

I always maintained that if they had Chara in ‘07, they beat Anaheim in the finals. (Thank God they didn’t )

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Correction: at the referee not an opposing player. Go see it. It's not that he didn't yell something at the referee, and there's no reason he'd yell "rag it" at a referee, it's that the people with the power destroy Rielly's career allowed the incident to pass.

No idea. Even if he did use a slur, don't know why he would turn to the referee and say anything to him after he was the one to give the puck away.

All I know was that he was cleared by all parties. I'm sure if he did use a slur, the refs would've actually reported it to the league. They haven't protected other players in the past. I remember Getzlaf was punished for a slur.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

I think we're in danger of being those Senators. They mismanaged the pieces they had and failed to identify goaltending except in the one year they had Hasek.

I mean...Zdeno Chara...ouch.

With Ottawa, its always been about the money, or lack of. Whether its Hossa, Chara, Heatley, Spezza, Alfredsson, Karlsson or Stone, the pattern is the same. They have a history of not signing their stars when they hit their pay day contracts.

 

[ShaneFalco]

I think we're in danger of being those Senators. They mismanaged the pieces they had and failed to identify goaltending except in the one year they had Hasek.

I mean...Zdeno Chara...ouch.

Yup and I remember making fun of Sens fans cuz they were regular season champs

 

[zeke]

Shanahan's grit was nice and all, but the fact that he led the Wings in goals AND points was probably more important.

In fact, if anything, Primeau for Shanahan actually made the Wings less physical, not more. It did make them much more skilled though.

 

[ITM]

I guess players do not have to respect management, but at the same time, what have they done to earn respect themselves at this point? They have continuously let down a management group (well technically 2 management groups) which has placed a lot of faith into them and has set them up for success year after year. The way this team and organization (not talking about the fans) treats its players is bar-none around the league. Good luck finding better elsewhere.

That seems more like a player problem than a management problem, especially when a lot of those things listed are probably above management's or even the team's head. The NHL themselves pushes a lot of those "woke" mandates, mostly as a way to make a very white-dominated sport more inclusive (and therefore generate them more money on top of all of the "feel-good" stuff).

If we have players who are that toxic or weak-minded, then we have much bigger issues at hand. Same if we have guys who need a 4th line scrub to run a guy through the boards to get them going. The occasion alone seems to be enough successful teams to get going; we shouldn't have to sacrifice in other areas to get the same basic response.

Nick Paul might not be a 4th line scrub per se. Certainly a solid third line player and one who demonstrated why a robust bottom six is vital to successful runs. Not merely incidental, but absolutely vital. All things being equal, it's the "bottom six" who open the game up for everyone else. Their game is predicated on work ethic and sacrifice to begin with. There's no switch to turn on. They simply extend their brand of hockey from the regular season to the time of the year when their value is maximized.

Tampa's third line 2.0, 3.0? seems to merit the expense of first round picks. That's true value. Not discounting Gourde, Coleman and the like...If it wasn't Paul stepping up it might have been Ross Colton. He did it last year. And again, successful teams only need those outlier games that seem to aggregate over successful runs.

If there's a player-problem/management problem, at each layer, it's clear we're not hiring sociologists and psychologists and politicians who just happen to know a lot about the hockey business and who can pot 15-20 a year for 1.5M on the third line.

If our expectation is, Bah! Everyone involved should be able to play hockey and evangelize! Then that's just as disjointed as asking your local butcher to stitch up injuries when they arise and your local reiki master to deal with potential torn ACLs.

Toronto I'd argue is leading the NHL when it comes to...participating in sensitizing the need for awareness. Over and above the league average and likely as much as any three teams combined. Well. it is Toronto, some might say. Very well. But the goal is the Stanley Cup, not repeated clicks on Yahoo! and honorary degrees from Evergreen State College or lifelong appointments to the CBC.

I think this past season demonstrated a step forward. And though it's not a necessary equivalency, I think Florida can likely attest to that. So by extension, I don't think the on-ice product is at a point of being targeted. Our off-ice consideration borders on the intrusive...And if it's intentional, well then, listen and read carefully to our "ex-players" exit interviews as to why Toronto, the fishbowl, became too much to bear.

If the focus isn't hockey - which is what I think the quote we're discussing intended to occasion - then it's not hockey and it's certainly not success in hockey and eventually all the off-ice goals will have been achieved while sacrificing the on-ice goals.

To be patently clear, I'd very much consider leaving the club I've never witnessed win a Cup while shifting support to a club that is clearly focused on the on-ice goals should their focus shift disproportionately. The idea of hiring a woman to coach the Marlies to spurn "white men and the patriarchy"...in f#$%ing ice hockey...is star-chamber level experimentation that I have no intention of participating in.

What's next? Rage at the discrimination in pole-vaulting against morbidly obese people because manufacturers haven't made poles that jettison the morbidly obese higher than trained pole-vaulters?

 

[ITM]

Yup and I remember making fun of Sens fans cuz they were regular season champs

Well as one member reminded, there was a choice between Redden and Chara. That's such a categrical miss that it boggles...

I mention it to bring to mind people shouting for certain trades here. Patience will pay off provided the other concerns can be met.

 

[DraftSchmaft]

Over the last few months I noticed people are rightfully abandoning the word grit in favor of intense/intensity.

The word grit is being misconstrued around here.

When I say playoff grit, I mean playing like winning is the only option. If hits comes as a side effect, cool, but it's not mandatory.

Dubas is stuck in old fashioned loser grit. Foligno trade. Thinking you can just dump Simmonds or Clifford in the lineup and be ready for playoff intensity.

Grit = winners, as far as I'm concerned now. Dubas has no idea how to surround the rest of the roster with playoff grit so if they want to move on I won't fight in his corner. I am willing to give him another chance but my patience is running thin.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Over the last few months I noticed people are rightfully abandoning the word grit in favor of intense/intensity.

The word grit is being misconstrued around here.

When I say playoff grit, I mean playing like winning is the only option. If hits comes as a side effect, cool, but it's not mandatory.

Dubas is stuck in old fashioned loser grit. Foligno trade. Thinking you can just dump Simmonds or Clifford in the lineup and be ready for playoff intensity.

Grit = winners, as far as I'm concerned now. Dubas has no idea how to surround the rest of the roster with playoff grit so if they want to move on I won't fight in his corner. I am willing to give him another chance but my patience is running thin.

Coach is fine with 2-2 splits, rewarding depth players in the middle of playoff war and content with respectful hand shakes. You asking for too much wanting winning being the only option around here.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Over the last few months I noticed people are rightfully abandoning the word grit in favor of intense/intensity.

The word grit is being misconstrued around here.

When I say playoff grit, I mean playing like winning is the only option. If hits comes as a side effect, cool, but it's not mandatory.

Dubas is stuck in old fashioned loser grit. Foligno trade. Thinking you can just dump Simmonds or Clifford in the lineup and be ready for playoff intensity.

Grit = winners, as far as I'm concerned now. Dubas has no idea how to surround the rest of the roster with playoff grit so if they want to move on I won't fight in his corner. I am willing to give him another chance but my patience is running thin.

Totally agree with everything but the last line. Dubas is wasting years sticking to his "vision" and rewarding (failure) Keefe

 

[Stephen]

Those senators kept moving core pieces. Chara, Hossa, Havlat, Yashin, etc.

We should probably not follow their example.

I'd have to stop you at "Yashin." Trading him brought the Senators Spezza and Chara and was a home run trade.

 

[Hoglund4MvP]

Totally agree with everything but the last line. Dubas is wasting years sticking to his "vision" and rewarding (failure) Keefe

funny i read his message the same. last line he got cold feet and pulled back and said okay fine scooby can have one more chance.

what it is important in that last line is it will be majority position next season. faith is low and not much left for this team (management) to convince people they know what they're doing. some of their most loyal fans over the last 7 years might be moving to "Fence" now instead.

 

[zeke]

I'd have to stop you at "Yashin." Trading him brought the Senators Spezza and Chara and was a home run trade.

In the long run yep - but they were a 109pt team with Yashin as their #1C and it wasn't until 4 years later that Spezza was able to fill that #1C hole again. That's 3yrs without a #1C right after finally breaking out into an elite 109pt team.

And even Chara took a couple years to become that top pair guy with the sens.

 

[Stephen]

In the long run yep - but they were a 109pt team with Yashin as their #1C and it wasn't until 4 years later that Spezza was able to fill that #1C hole again. That's 3yrs without a #1C right after finally breaking out into an elite 109pt team.

And even Chara took a couple years to become that top pair guy with the sens.

If that kind of trade was available for us at some point down the line with a Tavares or Nylander, I would take it.

You could even make the debate that Hossa for Heatley was a good trade since they got multiple 50 goal and 100 point years and one trip to the finals with Heatley. Though Heatley flamed out over time due to his own issues.

 

[zeke]

If that kind of trade was available for us at some point down the line with a Tavares or Nylander, I would take it.

You could even make the debate that Hossa for Heatley was a good trade since they got multiple 50 goal and 100 point years and one trip to the finals with Heatley. Though Heatley flamed out over time due to his own issues.

Be that as it may, the apparently elite Sens didn't have an actual #1C for most of the years we beat them, and when Spezza finally filled that role years later it was just in time for them to lose their #1D Chara.

This is what happens when you keep turning over your core.

(And P.s. Heatley was no Hossa.)

 

[Racer88]

Be that as it may, the apparently elite Sens didn't have an actual #1C for most of the years we beat them, and when Spezza finally filled that role years later it was just in time for them to lose their #1D Chara.

This is what happens when you keep turning over your core.

(And P.s. Heatley was no Hossa.)

We have all watched what happens when you lock yourself into spending 50% of your cap and 4 core forwards while leaving scraps for goaltending and much of the rest of the line up.
maybe if your core included forwards, defence and goaltending…….kinda like Tampa you hold onto them. However I’m guess if your core is structured like that we wouldn’t be 6 year first round failure

 

[pcruz]

In the long run yep - but they were a 109pt team with Yashin as their #1C and it wasn't until 4 years later that Spezza was able to fill that #1C hole again. That's 3yrs without a #1C right after finally breaking out into an elite 109pt team.

And even Chara took a couple years to become that top pair guy with the sens.

It was a very controversial 3 years.
Spezza was held back for some time despite being ready, was he not?

I was in high school when the Leafs started the 4 years of beating the Sens, but I swear that there was a circus revolving around the usage of Spezza.

 

[zeke]

We have all watched what happens when you lock yourself into spending 50% of your cap and 4 core forwards while leaving scraps for goaltending and much of the rest of the line up.
maybe if your core included forwards, defence and goaltending…….kinda like Tampa you hold onto them. However I’m guess if your core is structured like that we wouldn’t be 6 year first round failure

Yes we have all seen that what happens is we have the best season in franchise history.

 

[theTTC]

Yes we have all seen that what happens is we have the best season in franchise history.

Yawn. And another li'l skunk trophy the rest of the teams get too.

 

[Racer88]

Yes we have all seen that what happens is we have the best season in franchise history.

Yes and I enjoyed that, unfortunately when it really mattered in the playoffs for the 6th year in a row they shouldn’t get it done