Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[leafsfan5]

Yup, for people who say the press conferences don't mean anything this shows me otherwise. You get an insight into how they're taking the loss

Everything I've seen come out of Boston is that this isn't good enough and they need to be better. This is their attitude after their first loss in round 1 since 2017 lol. They have the mentality to be great, even if the pieces on the roster aren't there anymore

Then you see our management patting one another on the back for a close series after losing in round 1 6 times in a row. Just embarrassing

 

[Leaf Fans]

No you’re right everyone should return, January is a Leaf’s fans favourite time of the year it seems.

I enjoy all the games including January, but I'd much rather have Leaf games to enjoy though June. You can stop watching in January if you want.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Though you could go through Tampa and make similar observations. Ie their main guys shutdown, especially at 5v5.

The series went 7 games and was decided by a single goal in the final game. If Tampa was a tier above they should have been able to close it out much earlier - but they couldn't. Beacuse empirically the two teams were likely as evenly matched as you could get in the post season.

Tampas bottom six (and Brayden Point) compete so incredibly hard. Clifford competes at the same effort level. Clifford is too mean because without him in the line up they were the most penalized team in the league.

Heart is not a analytical stat but any organizational development course says that you need a vastly diverse set of skills to be successful

We have the same player 1 through 18.

 

[TorMapleJays]

 

[myleafs]

I'm sorry, but that's such a bullshit perspective. If you swap the Leafs out for a different top 3 team in the conference, that narrative would never be floated. The Leafs outscored them, beating Vasi for an average of like 3 goals a game. Tampa had dominant games, they were definitely awake. This is how they win and always have won. They are always playing at a high level consistently, they need no ramp up.

I agree somewhat but I have watched enough Tampa games to see that they did not look the same against the leafs. The leafs play was part of that equation but even still Tampa did not look like their usual self. Kucherov was bad bad bad, I couldn't believe what I was seeing with him...bad and lazy passes, looked disinterested. Against Florida Tampa looks to have awaken and look like they are getting back to their old selves, especially kucherov. Not taking anything away from the leafs effort, they gave the champs a run for their money but Tampa when on their game are machine like. They are willing to put everything on the line which is what champions are made of. If Im the leafs I don't complain and make excuses, I look at Tampa and think what are they doing that we are not.

 

[saltming]

I think the point is that firing everybody and bringing in guys that were great 20 years ago is what pretty much every team in the NHL does in this situation, including the Leafs multiple times over the last 50 years. And it's never worked, so maybe trying something else is warranted? But the fans and the media don't get blood that way.

The statement I most agree with is the one about Trotz 20 years ago, because it's 100% accurate; the ones screaming for Trotz now are the same ones who would have missed him 20 years ago, because he didn't have a track record then.

Or many of us appreciated how he took a team with zero offence and made them a respectable team.
Some of us even wished he was our coach a long time ago

 

[TorMapleJays]

Or many of us appreciated how he took a team with zero offence and made them a respectable team.
Some of us even wished he was our coach a long time ago

Dubas doesn’t like conflicting views points.

 

[saltming]

DeShaun Watson, is that you?

 

[saltming]

Dubas doesn’t like conflicting views points.

I've only ever heard different. He's on record saying it's prudent to have different means of nds working in the same problem because you can never have enough perspectives

 

[Daisy Jane]

it's very obvious that people can't chew bubblegum and walk at the same time.

You can be happy about how you performed and still be disappointed that you lost.
it doesn't have to be one or the other. it can be both. it's not stockholm syndrome, or rose coloured glasses, or just accepting about being mediocre. it was a tight series. it was a really good series. that's great. we lost. that sucks. we need to make changes. that's clear.

and again. if the Leafs came out saying dracrys and burning it all down to the ground. people would be mad that they weren't doing it in a way that protected the assets etc.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Yup, for people who say the press conferences don't mean anything this shows me otherwise. You get an insight into how they're taking the loss

Everything I've seen come out of Boston is that this isn't good enough and they need to be better. This is their attitude after their first loss in round 1 since 2017 lol. They have the mentality to be great, even if the pieces on the roster aren't there anymore

Then you see our management patting one another on the back for a close series after losing in round 1 6 times in a row. Just embarrassing

Yup which is why I'm shocked so many are on board this train wreck management team. Pissing away years and ok with it

 

[leafsfan5]

One thing I find interesting is our record as playoff series enter their second half since the establishment of the core (so 2019). I assigned the "front half" of a series as games 1-4, and the back half of a series as games 5-7. I didn't include 2020 since it doesn't follow the typical format

Front-half record: 7-5
Back-half record: 2-7

So what does this mean? We start strong and look amazing, but as the series goes on we get worse.......a 2-7 record is just abysmal

Why does this happen? Is it the adjustments the opposing coaches make? Is it the other team finds another gear with their season on the line and we don't? Is it goaltending?

 

[CapspaceKiller]

One thing I find interesting is our record as playoff series enter their second half since the establishment of the core (so 2019). I assigned the "front half" of a series as games 1-4, and the back half of a series as games 5-7. I didn't include 2020 since it doesn't follow the typical format

Front-half record: 7-5
Back-half record: 2-7

So what does this mean? We start strong and look amazing, but as the series goes on we get worse.......a 2-7 record is just abysmal

Why does this happen? Is it the adjustments the opposing coaches make? Is it the other team finds another gear with their season on the line and we don't? Is it goaltending?

The opponent figures them out offensively later in the series. Every series, space is eventually taken away and the leaf's goal total seems to fall off. This is what happens when you play a team often in a short period of time. They figure out your comfort areas. I really saw it this year. The game had become a dump and chase battle, so guys like Tavares, Spezza and Mathews were fine, but guys like Engvall, Kerfoot and Mikheyev, who are completely dependent on space and flow were basically useless. Marner couldn't get within 15 feet of the net the last 2 games as well.

It absolutely could be a lack of an adjustments by the coach, or it can be this team lacks the strength down-low to battle for pucks in the corners. Its not just grit, its an ability to create in small areas near the net. Both could be a problem, but this issue existed under Babcock as well, specifically the last series against Boston. No space, the opponent takes it away and the flow is all screwed up.

 

[leafsfan5]

The opponent figures them out offensively later in the series. Every series, space is eventually taken away and the leaf's goal total seems to fall off. This is what happens when you play a team often in a short period of time. They figure out your comfort areas. I really saw it this year. The game had become a dump and chase battle, so guys like Tavares, Spezza and Mathews were fine, but guys like Engvall, Kerfoot and Mikheyev, who are completely dependent on space and flow were basically useless. Marner couldn't get within 15 feet of the net the last 2 games as well.

It absolutely could be a lack of an adjustments by the coach, or it can be this team lacks the strength down-low to battle for pucks in the corners. Its not just grit, its an ability to create in small areas near the net. Both could be a problem, but this issue existed under Babcock as well, specifically the last series against Boston. No space, the opponent takes it away and the flow is all screwed up.

To provide stats for your point:

Games 1-4: 3.33 goals per game (40 in 12)
Games 5-7: 2.11 goals per game (19 in 9)

Games 1-4: 2.42 goals against (29 in 12)
Games 5-7: 3.22 goals against (29 in 9)

We pretty much do a complete flip with our opponents. We dominate early (+11 differential), they figure us out and dominate late (-10 differential)

 

[TheGreenTBer]

Yup, for people who say the press conferences don't mean anything this shows me otherwise. You get an insight into how they're taking the loss

Everything I've seen come out of Boston is that this isn't good enough and they need to be better. This is their attitude after their first loss in round 1 since 2017 lol. They have the mentality to be great, even if the pieces on the roster aren't there anymore

Then you see our management patting one another on the back for a close series after losing in round 1 6 times in a row. Just embarrassing

I live in Boston. The sports fans here have become so accustomed to success that they have little tolerance for failure, and they are very happy to let you know about your failure if/when it happens. Also, Bruins fans have no patience for a soft team in particular even if the team is successful; it is impossible to separate that blue-collar identity from this city's sports fans no matter how gentrified Boston gets.

Boston fans expect the best. They have no sympathy for the rest.

 

[Tufted Titmouse]

To provide stats for your point:

Games 1-4: 3.33 goals per game (40 in 12)
Games 5-7: 2.11 goals per game (19 in 9)

Games 1-4: 2.42 goals against (29 in 12)
Games 5-7: 3.22 goals against (29 in 9)

We pretty much do a complete flip with our opponents. We dominate early (+11 differential), they figure us out and dominate late (-10 differential)

This is some straight up torture for us fans. Statistically, this is "raise their hopes, then crush em".

 

[Trapper]

Pretty amazing to me all the Dubas Kool-aid Kids anger at those of us that has been spot on with our predictions, i.e. the Leafs will never get past the 1st round with the current management and coaching team in place. Looking back over with past 5 years, some of us have predicted a 1st round exit each year and, more importantly, in the future. Others say we are improving and Dubas is doing a great job. The proof is in the pudding. Most agree the regular season means squat. So, please convince me how this team is improving. All I have seen is a first round exit every year with this core and executive team. Most teams that have gone on to win the Cup have shown forward steps. Our team has been mired in 1st round slush for too long. GL to all the Kids, next year could be an even bigger disappointment.

 

[TheGoldenJet]

Kyle Dubas, proven playoff failure.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Well there are also downsides with this kind of owners. In worst case they don't have patience at all and be impulsive as hell. Some will grow bitter towards their franchise and fans. Ballard, Melnyk, Pegula are a like I think. Then there is Samueli's in Anaheim that don't have enough money, which wouldn't be case here. Ilitch is great example of good owner, but their franchise has been over a decade in terrible tailspin.

Impulsiveness and impatience are something that can really destroy your team and franchise. Can also do it over and over again. One person having that with total control over whole operation. Well Ballard years or Melnyk in Ottawa...

I see this coalition we have now as good ownership. Those PPP years were terrifying, but I think this ownership brings stability and want's to see us winning. We have hockey people as president instead of Peddie. Could be worse, way worse.

Jack Welch might disagree with you

 

[3blizzard4]

Not sure why Keefe keeps getting ridiculed for his comments when he specifically said right afterward that at the end of the day, it's the results that matter.

I personally think he realized what a stupid thing he just said and he had a recovery plan for it.

 

[Nylanderthal]

On the Fan590 someone gave the Leafs anology but substituted the Leafs to a prime city NBA team.

Asked if six years in a row without a first round win with all star players on your squad in their prime making top dollar and nothing happens? no change? Instead votes of confidence are handed about? Only in small markets.

GM and coach have excellent PR in what is becoming a soft media market

TV and newspapers have already forgotten about the Leafs. Sports radio will soon follow suit. All
The eye balls and ears will be tuning in October in full force.

No pressure. Ticket sales and jersey sales and ad revenue will be same if not more next season. Why did something that’s not broken?

The first round of the nba playoffs is brutal as the disparity between top and bottom clubs is way more in basketball as it is in hockey. By a large margin.

 

[3blizzard4]

The first round of the nba playoffs is brutal as the disparity between top and bottom clubs is way more in basketball as it is in hockey. By a large margin.

Agreed. But let's also agree Tampa has been the toughest match up of all. Previous opponents were very beatable.

 

[Racer88]

Dont forget the we got more respect in the handshake line parade

Ya those 3 can put that on their resume

 

[Racer88]

We see under 0.01% of his job or how he performs or what he thinks. Shanahan has perfect view. Dubas probably isn't an idiot or incompetent. If he were he wouldn't be there in the first place and if he was incompetent he wouldn't be there anymore.

I see Shanahan as pretty smart and calculated person. That he ties his legacy to Dubas tells me something.

And yet they continue to set records for playoff series losses and humiliating things like building a team that got beat by a Zamboni driver in net for the other team……..ya they are geniuses

 

[mikeyz]

No.

My question is much simpler.

Who is the 2nd best team in the league?
How do you determine the 2nd best team in the playoffs?
Is it an improvement year after year if you go from dead last 6 years ago to 2nd best this year?

Is 2nd best sufficient?
No.

Am I going to blow the team up if they are indeed the 2nd best team in the league, knowing that they should have beaten the best team in the league after an extremely tight 7 game series?
No.

How much more improvement is needed to go from barely 2nd best to best?

Now, most importantly, does the best team always win the championships?

I am sorry but you can’t be considered the 2nd best team in the league after losing as many 1st rounds in a row as the Leafs have for the past half decade.