Confirmed with Link: Shanahan, Dubas, Keefe all staying

[DarkKnight]

Isles fans still talk about this handshake line last year and how TB players so so respected them….

 

[Dough72]

Rogers is being ridiculous. Shanahan and Dubas have now broken historic records for failure.

 

[Bomber0104]

My god, the stockholm syndrome here is real. The Toronto Snowflakes have lost again ... shocking. Are people actually watching these games and seeing different things? Our key players *literally* coast into the corners, lest they get checked.

Look at the Sundin era leafs: solid but unspectacular offense, excellent goaltending, and a sh*t tonne of grit. We have continually failed to address the goaltending and grit issues, wildly overpaid entitled RFAs who had zero leverage and Dubas is so arrogant that he still believes his flouting of conventional wisdom re: building a contender is *right*. We refuse to shoot the puck, and spend all of our time gilding the lily.

This team is not good at its core, and moves at the margins are not going to fix it.

Wait, so Simmonds and Clifford playing limited minutes, getting suspended/ejected from games entirely, and then press-boxed after game 2 didn't make us a tough, gritty team to play against?

Surely Bunting, Blackwell, and Engvall scared the daylights out of the Tampa players?!

 

[Lightsol]

Toronto Maple Leafs: Barry Trotz One of the Laziest Ideas Yet

Toronto Maple Leafs: Barry Trotz One of the Laziest Ideas Yet . I can't believe people are saying to fire the coach after such a ...

editorinleaf.com

The Toronto Maple Leafs do not need a new coach.

But more specifically, the last thing the Toronto Maple Leafs need is an old-school veteran coach who is known for his boring defensive hockey.

They had one of those, it wasn’t working out, and they fired him.

Their new coach has been a major improvement and has one of the best winning percentages of all time. Sheldon Keefe is doing a great job and his job is not in jeopardy at all.

But even if it was, Barry Trotz, isn’t the guy you’d want.

Toronto Maple Leafs Don’t Need a New Coach​

There are members of the NHL media who will not give up on the fact that the Toronto Maple Leafs (at least under Shanahan and Dubas) do not think about the game in the same way they do.

The NHL is a cookie cutter league where teams recycle the same losers over and over, and no one innovates, and hardly anyone even thinks. The Leafs – who can be maddeningly regressive at times – at least try new things. The media that covers them just cannot forgive them for ditching Babcock and Lamoriello, and now they are hoping the Leafs feel the same way.

They don’t.

Barry Trotz just got fired by the Islanders (who are a much worse team than the Leafs) for not making the playoffs.

Why would you give a guy who just got fired and who had a terrible year, the job of the guy who just had one of the best seasons?

Losing to Tampa by a single goal isn’t a strike against Keefe, it’s a success in his favor. You know who has also lost to Tampa in the playoffs? Barry Trotz. Twice.

There is no reason to fire Keefe for Trotz, except that this is the NHL so people are always after a guy who had success instead of a guy who might have it in the future.

Barry Trotz is 59 years old, and that is 18 years older than Sheldon Keefe. The people who want to hire Barry Trotz now would have missed out on him 18 years ago. Keefe’s career is off to a great start and he is more than likely going to be as successful as Trotz has been, 18 years from now.

 

[Bomber0104]

Toronto Maple Leafs: Barry Trotz One of the Laziest Ideas Yet

Toronto Maple Leafs: Barry Trotz One of the Laziest Ideas Yet . I can't believe people are saying to fire the coach after such a ...

editorinleaf.com

Are you James Tanner?

It'd make sense.

 

[Mike4Leafs4ever]

Toronto Maple Leafs: Barry Trotz One of the Laziest Ideas Yet

Toronto Maple Leafs: Barry Trotz One of the Laziest Ideas Yet . I can't believe people are saying to fire the coach after such a ...

editorinleaf.com

What a complete moronic take by Tanner in Editor in Leaf. Keefe can win every damn game and award in the regular season. IT IS IRRELEVANT. He does not know how to win in the playoffs. He may learn with time, but we are out of time for that. We could only have Mathews for 1 more year (if he does not resign he in his final year, he has to be traded). We dont have time for learning on the job by Keefe. We already wasted three prime years of Mathews doing this. We need a proven playoff winner like Trotz.

 

[Trapper]

What a complete moronic take by Tanner in Editor in Leaf. Keefe can win every damn game and award in the regular season. IT IS IRRELEVANT. He does not know how to win in the playoffs. He may learn with time, but we are out of time for that. We could only have Mathews for 1 more year (if he does not resign he in his final year, he has to be traded). We dont have time for learning on the job by Keefe. We already wasted three prime years of Mathews doing this. We need a proven playoff winner like Trotz.

Don’t worry about Keefe. He’s going to be a legend.

 

[pcruz]

What a complete moronic take by Tanner in Editor in Leaf. Keefe can win every damn game and award in the regular season. IT IS IRRELEVANT. He does not know how to win in the playoffs. He may learn with time, but we are out of time for that. We could only have Mathews for 1 more year (if he does not resign he in his final year, he has to be traded). We dont have time for learning on the job by Keefe. We already wasted three prime years of Mathews doing this. We need a proven playoff winner like Trotz.

Trotz coached Washington for 4 years.
During his tenure, Ovechkin was already in his late 20s, Backstrom was late 20s and both had faced year after year of defeat in the playoffs.
Yet, it took Trotz 4 years to win.

The year they did, some guy on their team played every bit as well as Ovechkin (Kuznetsov), some guy was 5th in Norris voting (Carlson) and some guy had just come off 1st and 2nd place for Vezina the previous years.

We don't have a top 5 Norris defenseman. We don't have a Vezina caliber goalie.

Ovechkin had 4 of his worst seasons under Trotz.

Do we really need 4 more years before our coach wins anything in Toronto?
All we're missing is that elusive Vezina goalie and Norris defenseman, those should be easy to acquire.

 

[Kurtz]

Trotz coached Washington for 4 years.
During his tenure, Ovechkin was already in his late 20s, Backstrom was late 20s and both had faced year after year of defeat in the playoffs.
Yet, it took Trotz 4 years to win.

The year they did, some guy on their team played every bit as well as Ovechkin (Kuznetsov), some guy was 5th in Norris voting (Carlson) and some guy had just come off 1st and 2nd place for Vezina the previous years.

We don't have a top 5 Norris defenseman. We don't have a Vezina caliber goalie.

Ovechkin had 4 of his worst seasons under Trotz.

Do we really need 4 more years before our coach wins anything in Toronto?
All we're missing is that elusive Vezina goalie and Norris defenseman, those should be easy to acquire.

Ovechkin won the Rocket Richard 3 out of those 4 years...while also finally learning to play defense.

Carlson wasn't that much better than Reilly (imo).

And Holtby had by far the best 3 years of his career under Trotz. Prior to Trotz, he was a good tandem goalie, not too different from Campbell.

 

[TorontoTrades]

Thought maybe a move with Keefe but not overly surprised all 3 are staying.

 

[Dough72]

someone actually got paid to write that article about coaches. Calling Babcocks teams 'boring defensive minded' teams lol even the dumbest posters on here wouldn't say that. And calling Babcock himself oldschool is worse. He was the opposite of oldschool in every single way right down to encouraging his players not to fight back and not to stick up for each other. People really need to stop viewing all things through the lens of stereotypes and turn their brains back on. Stereotypes are really sloppy thinking and a really lazy way to form an opinion.

 

[Mike4Leafs4ever]

Trotz coached Washington for 4 years.
During his tenure, Ovechkin was already in his late 20s, Backstrom was late 20s and both had faced year after year of defeat in the playoffs.
Yet, it took Trotz 4 years to win.

The year they did, some guy on their team played every bit as well as Ovechkin (Kuznetsov), some guy was 5th in Norris voting (Carlson) and some guy had just come off 1st and 2nd place for Vezina the previous years.

We don't have a top 5 Norris defenseman. We don't have a Vezina caliber goalie.

Ovechkin had 4 of his worst seasons under Trotz.

Do we really need 4 more years before our coach wins anything in Toronto?
All we're missing is that elusive Vezina goalie and Norris defenseman, those should be easy to acquire.

Even if what you say is correct, Trotz learned those four years. He does not need to learn another 4 more years like Keefe does.

 

[mikeyz]

Tampa is going to sweep Florida a round after barely squeaking past the Leafs.
By barely, I mean relying on the officials calling back a goal because of a play that is made every single game multiple times.

I don't see how Toronto doesn't treat Florida the same way Tampa is. Especially since Tampa has lost a bunch of key players since they last played Toronto.

The sky isn't always falling, and what happened 2, 3, 4, 12, 50 years ago doesn't have any bearing on how good the the team is right now.

I don't care about that record because it has no effect on tomorrow.

Stop perpetuating these historic figures because they mean f*** all.

LMFAO Ohhhhh here we go!! The annual "Look at what ____ is doing to other teams after beating the Leafs in the 1st round" carousel.

Who f***ing cares??? This team has lost in the 1st round 6 f***ing years in a row! What does it matter what the team that beats the Leafs do???

Going by your logic, the Leafs should have won the cup this year because Montreal made it to the finals last year. We were "That close last year" right???

By the way. I am going to spare you from responding to me, because I know EXACTLY what you're going to say.

"You're actually comparing Tampa to Montreal?? Montreal's run last year was a total fluke. That's why they finished dead last and won the draft lottery this year. Tampa is so much better then them and this years 1st round loss "was different" then years past"

Did I just about cover it?

That wasn't my point and you know it. So stop making excuses for this team.

You know what is sad and bottomline? You didn’t even exaggerate the year after year….WOW.

I just caught that too!

 

[deprw]

We lost in the first round again, so no improvement. I liked some things, sure, but I can’t accept the status quo again, it speaks to this culture of comfort and borderline self satisfaction.

Your metric is easy to understand, but it's also pretty blunt for let's say making calculated decisions. We have already lost to eventual cup finalist in game seven for two times. I know excuses. I also hate losing and don't care if Tampa loses to Colorado in the finals.

Though I hated that lost decade from 2005-2015 even more, when we were retooling after retooling with experienced incompetent pugnacity preaching missionaries. I'd rather take this patient demanding approach instead.

Even if what you say is correct, Trotz learned those four years. He does not need to learn another 4 more years like Keefe does.

Good question is that would Trotz like to coach anymore and if so, would he do it here? Rumours say that his mother died and he want to be closer to his father (lives in Winnipeg). This would also explain why Lou canned him. So he can be closer to his family.

We'll see what happens with him, if he signs five year contract with Florida or something that pretty much tells if that rumour has any legs. If it has I think our front office knows that now.

Would have replaced Keefe with Trotz in a second.

 

[sittler rules!!!]

Honestly, I don’t think running away makes a legacy.

No,winning championships does

 

[sittler rules!!!]

They weren't his dream team though even, Arizona was.

We were just lucky to get him, he's gonna leave here with the Calder, Hart, Rockets, Ted Lindsay and at least 1 60 goal season on the resume and currently 33 pts in 39GP, maybe finishes with a pt/game in playoffs if he can finish his next 2 1st series like he did this last one.

Unlikely anyone remembers Matthews anything other than an elite talent that left because we could never figure out the supporting cast, every great needs it.

Ovechkin was amazing but took Washington a while to figure out Semin, Green, Varlamov etc weren't gonna be the ones to help put the team over the top. They drafted and developed more talent, found some good trades in Oshie, signed good UFAs etc.

Teams generally keep adding, Blues lost Backes but found a way to add Brayden Schenn and ROR in short order.

Tampa managed to add Sergachev and McDonagh.

We're losing more talent than we're gaining most years and no sure things in the pipeline to help our current core.

 

[TorMapleJays]

Toronto Maple Leafs: Barry Trotz One of the Laziest Ideas Yet

Toronto Maple Leafs: Barry Trotz One of the Laziest Ideas Yet . I can't believe people are saying to fire the coach after such a ...

editorinleaf.com

0-10

0-6.

Mic Drop.

I don't care if Tampa wins it all again.
We didnt beat the best. We lost. AGAIN.

Lets alter the course as what a successful business executives would do after several post mortems

 

[deprw]

That bitcoin line was pretty accurate I thought. Still can't figure out this Dubas fascination.

We see under 0.01% of his job or how he performs or what he thinks. Shanahan has perfect view. Dubas probably isn't an idiot or incompetent. If he were he wouldn't be there in the first place and if he was incompetent he wouldn't be there anymore.

I see Shanahan as pretty smart and calculated person. That he ties his legacy to Dubas tells me something.

 

[ShaneFalco]

We see under 0.01% of his job or how he performs or what he thinks. Shanahan has perfect view. Dubas probably isn't an idiot or incompetent. If he were he wouldn't be there in the first place and if he was incompetent he wouldn't be there anymore.

I see Shanahan as pretty smart and calculated person. That he ties his legacy to Dubas tells me something.

That failure is acceptable and he's weak?

 

[deprw]

From a fan's perspective, this will always be a downfall of many Toronto sports fans; we are owned by groups that have no personal feelings either way as long as revenue is strong.

If we had a rich owner with a perosnality and an ego (think Cuban in the NBA), they would tie the orgs success directly to their own happiness, and you can be damned sure 55 years of mediocrity wouldn't be approached with such a blase, steady as we go attitude.

Obviously Ballard is an example of the downside of that arrangement, but TML are too profitable now for someone like him to ever take over again.

Well there are also downsides with this kind of owners. In worst case they don't have patience at all and be impulsive as hell. Some will grow bitter towards their franchise and fans. Ballard, Melnyk, Pegula are a like I think. Then there is Samueli's in Anaheim that don't have enough money, which wouldn't be case here. Ilitch is great example of good owner, but their franchise has been over a decade in terrible tailspin.

Impulsiveness and impatience are something that can really destroy your team and franchise. Can also do it over and over again. One person having that with total control over whole operation. Well Ballard years or Melnyk in Ottawa...

I see this coalition we have now as good ownership. Those PPP years were terrifying, but I think this ownership brings stability and want's to see us winning. We have hockey people as president instead of Peddie. Could be worse, way worse.

 

[sxvnert]

Compare Cam Neelys response to whether he'll keep his head coach vs Dubas:

Cassidy coaching record:

 

[3blizzard4]

Six years in a row first round exists and shanny comes out and gives his votes of confidence to GM, coach and core.

What is going to break shanny? 8 years in a row? What will be the straw that breaks his back?

 

[deprw]

That failure is acceptable and he's weak?

Like said we don't know everything and we'll never will. There are failures that are acceptable and there isn't. It seems like this is third year of those six failures that we played against Stanley Cup finalist. That's 50% and Caps and Bruins went to finals season after beating us. We haven't had that luxury that Oilers had this season to play against lesser team.

To me this whole situation is about knocking that door enough times that our core push trough it and learn how to win. There isn't that much that we can do outside of that, if we change our core to younger players we start cycle all over again and if we go the veteran route we hope they can replicate it here. That isn't even viable option in salary cap world.

We were close this year and have scouting and development in place. This is best front office we've had since I started following this team. In the end GM can affect more that side than on ice product, if he does that well enough would I axe him after that series we had even though it still stings like motherf***er? Nope. Anyway the situation is that it's either win or axe.

To me as a person that works around management and development of things the essence is about thinking, learning and processes, if you have those in place you succeed eventually even if you fail at first. If you have right people you give them time, if you don't you change them. Shanahan probably thinks he has right people, because he sees how they're working and I still trust Shanahan.

 

[TorMapleJays]

That dude is the biggest Leaf homer. Mocked constantly. I mean it's dekes territory

I feel like some fans dont understand that we have a good team, but the team is not good enough.


The media is owned by the Leafs (litterally) and they have a circle of trust. Play nice, ask soft ball questions, stay in the media loop. Cash your check. LPC MO.

Six years in a row first round exists and shanny comes out and gives his votes of confidence to GM, coach and core.

What is going to break shanny? 8 years in a row? What will be the straw that breaks his back?

Larry.

 

[ShaneFalco]

To me this whole situation is about knocking that door enough times that our core push trough it and learn how to win.

Same thing was said 2-3 years ago. They are not constructed for playoff success. That's on the gm....and the coach who can't adapt. Wasting the most talented group we've had with a guy who has had no NHL success and thinks his vision is the only way forward