Pre-Game Talk: Series discussion: NYR vs MTL

[I Eat Crow]

The series is a coin flip. Habs in 7.

 

[Pure Laine]

Guys, good luck.

I don't know what to expect of this series. I'm less confident than vs Boston.

 

[Hockey Team]

I really don't get the "start talbot" trolling.

I mean, nobody likes goals against, but talbot's not getting a start, lol.

 

[ECWHSWI]

If I wasn't a fan of either team, I honestly wouldn't know who to pick for this series. I think the Rangers depth ultimately wins out, though. If the Rangers can shut down the Maxpac-Vanek line, and stay out of the penalty box, then I think they stand a VERY GOOD chance to win this series in 6, maybe even 5 (wishful thinking, though).

On one hand, the Rangers and Lundqvist have generally struggled at the Bell Centre, and Montreal also has the loudest fans of any other hockey arena. However, this is the playoffs, and those don't always mean anything in the end. Lundqvist didn't have the best career numbers at Pittsburgh, and that didn't bother him last round.

Max plays with Desharnais, Vanek with Plekanec. (subject to change though, depends how the coach feels)

 

[EpicDing]

Rangers in 7.

If it goes to 7, Rangers will win.

 

[n8]

I'd probably rank it similarly. It's tough to just match one to one like that, though.

For example, you take Staal over Markov. I do too. But Markov's got these crazy good stretch passes that can break open a game. And he's pretty solid fundamentally. His real flaw is his skating now. And that's compounded by being paired with Emelin, who's also a bad skater. If they're caught out on the ice against BPZ, that's a little tougher for them. They'll manage, as they did against Boston (which can be a quick team, too), but it's not ideal.

So that's why I think it's tough to look at players 1 to 1 like that. The pairing matters. The opposition matters. The situation matters, as you know. And the two defenses bring some different strengths to the table.

Since we're on the topic: I've liked Moore in my viewings. How's he fared of late?

The problem for Markov Emelin is that they not only have to worry about PBZ, but Hagelin and Kreider's speedy forecheck pressure. MSL can speed he can use and heck, even Nash will have more space to do his thing with slow defensemen. Those 5 players will eat those two up. Gorges is not fast either. The big advantage of our defense is that our top 4 can neutralize their top 6 forwards way better than their top 4 can neutralize our top 6 forwards and our top 6 is really up for debate. Where Montreal can make up for this is speedy forwards back checking.

Montreal's offense can be potent and Carey Price can win games. We need to cut their guys down with speed, wear them down with hits, and spend more time in their zone than they spend in our zone (this includes not taking penalties). Those are my keys to winning the series.

If Subban is defending, he's not a scoring threat. We might need Nash covering Subban which sounds like opposites world...

 

[TheGoalJudge]

What is your shutdown line? Who did you have out most often against Crosby for example? It seems your 3rd line is more of an offensive line.

 

[Winter Eclipse]

Super excited for this series! Habs fan living in NYC, so it's gonna be amazing having these two teams play each other in the ECF. My biggest concern is that the Habs take their foot off the gas a little after beating their arch-rivals; they absolutely CANNOT lose sight of the fact that the Rangers beat the Flyers AND the Pens, two 1st tier teams.

Anyways, nothing too substantive in this first post, just still on a high from smoke checking the Bruins, but wanted to stop by and say looking forward to the series!

 

[aufheben]

What is your shutdown line? Who did you have out most often against Crosby for example? It seems your 3rd line is more of an offensive line.

Boyle - Moore - Dorsett. Really just Boyle and Moore though.

 

[JESSEWENEEDTOCOOK]

What is your shutdown line? Who did you have out most often against Crosby for example? It seems your 3rd line is more of an offensive line.

AV matched up our bottom-6 as a whole against Crosby and Making. Pouliot-Brassard-Zuccarello is our best line in nearly every facet. They can dominate puck possession for lengthy periods of time, and they score consistently. Boyle-Moore-Dorsett/Carcillo does a good job of wearing lines down physically, and Moore is a pest.

That doesn't take into account the other (bigger) reasons why, which are the Staal-Stralman pairing and Hank.

 

[Mike8]

Tale of the tape?

I don't know about how you feel about the Canadiens website but I have serious doubts about a lot of the size information on the Rangers website. Just for a couple examples I think both Nash and Staal are a bit heavier than the figures there. Nash is probably somewhere between 225 and 230. Staal between 215 and 220. Girardi's got to be at least 210. He's definitely got some size on Klein. McDonagh may be more than they list him as well. Brassard strikes me maybe as a little lighter than the 202 and Pouliot heavier than the 197. Just don't think Brassard weighs more than Pouliot. Dorsett ain't 6'0--maybe with skates on.

Yeah, I had a hard time believing Staal too, though he doesn't have a terribly bulky build. I don't think Pouliot's heavier than 197, though. And I'd be really surprised if Nash is heavier than listed. He's just not that thick, and 225-230 is very, very thick for a hockey player. Lucic, for example, is 230-235 and Nash isn't nearly that thick.

Anyway, doesn't matter much. Moderately interesting to compare the two side by side, if only to confirm that neither team has much of a leg up in size.

 

[Mike8]

The Rangers lost in 5 to Boston last year. It wasn't close. We were lucky to win the one game. Depth was a big problem. Richards **** the bed and we really didn't have much of a 4th line. Our bottom pairing wasn't very good. Torts hated Kreider for some reason. Stralman got hurt by a Lucic hit. Boston basically forechecked the **** out of us--killed us on the pwp--and their 4th line scored some big goals. Torts doesn't roll lines when his team is losing--he shortens his bench. In a series like that that didn't help but he didn't really have that many options other than put some faith into kids like Kreider and Miller and he wasn't going to do that.

The Rangers are deeper this year. Two really fine defense pairs and the bottom pairing is good. Flipping DZ for Klein brought a lot of stability to the back line. Rangers have a really good 4th line that can hurt you offensively if you take them for granted. The other 3 lines aren't offensive juggernauts but they're all capable of doing damage on any given night. The guys that aren't playing are pretty decent as well. Last year we were looking to the likes of Kris Newbury and Micheal Haley.

I can't say how we would have done if we played Boston instead of the Penguins. Quite honestly I didn't think Boston was going to get knocked out by any team in the East. To me if the Bruins had a weakness this year it was their defense corps--missing McQuaid and especially Seidenberg and replaced by a bunch of first and second year d-men. Chara didn't even look that good. To me the Rangers are a lot better team than last year--a lot deeper and with no major injury concerns--their players pretty much all on the same page. I could easily see them making a series with the Bruins this year a lot more competitive than last year.

I have to laugh at a lot of people griping that the Rangers are an average team. The Rangers don't have a lot of top end offensive talent but they have good players pretty much from top to bottom. The Rangers IMO are a very good team and deserve to be where they are. Whether they can advance again we'll have to see. I think pretty much the same about Montreal. Not a great team but a very good team with depth and players who fit into and accept their particular roles.

Well written. Pretty much agree on all fronts.

 

[Thirty One]

What is your shutdown line? Who did you have out most often against Crosby for example? It seems your 3rd line is more of an offensive line.

AV doesn't really shy away from any matchup. He tends to prefer the Stepan line to go power-on-power against the opposition's best.

Against Crosby it was:
36% Stepan
23% Moore
22% Richards
19% Brassard

 

[Mike8]

The problem for Markov Emelin is that they not only have to worry about PBZ, but Hagelin and Kreider's speedy forecheck pressure. MSL can speed he can use and heck, even Nash will have more space to do his thing with slow defensemen. Those 5 players will eat those two up. Gorges is not fast either. The big advantage of our defense is that our top 4 can neutralize their top 6 forwards way better than their top 4 can neutralize our top 6 forwards and our top 6 is really up for debate. Where Montreal can make up for this is speedy forwards back checking.

Montreal's offense can be potent and Carey Price can win games. We need to cut their guys down with speed, wear them down with hits, and spend more time in their zone than they spend in our zone (this includes not taking penalties). Those are my keys to winning the series.

If Subban is defending, he's not a scoring threat. We might need Nash covering Subban which sounds like opposites world...

Gorges can move okay. I wouldn't count on his mobility being a liability. He's also good under forecheck pressure.

I'd agree that NYR's forechecking will be problematic for MTL. The best way to negate forecheck pressure is by being dangerous in moving the puck effectively. Tampa's got a very quick forward group too, but their forecheck was entirely negated by strong puck support and puck movement. Markov and Emelin were never really caught by forecheckers because they're both adept at moving the puck. So while I concur that NYR's quick fwds can pose an issue for the MTL D in forechecking, that's countered by a strong breakout + skilled puckmovers, of which there is a highly skilled puck mover on every pairing.

I like your keys to victory. Also, remember that Subban, in 5 on 5, is most concerned with D and not offense. He generates most of his offense on the PP. He's more of a shutdown dman on ES.

 

[Pizza]

Lol, I'm predicting an epic series. But I was dead wrong about the last one against Pitt.

 

[ECWHSWI]

The problem for Markov Emelin is that they not only have to worry about PBZ, but Hagelin and Kreider's speedy forecheck pressure. MSL can speed he can use and heck, even Nash will have more space to do his thing with slow defensemen. Those 5 players will eat those two up. Gorges is not fast either. The big advantage of our defense is that our top 4 can neutralize their top 6 forwards way better than their top 4 can neutralize our top 6 forwards and our top 6 is really up for debate. Where Montreal can make up for this is speedy forwards back checking.

Montreal's offense can be potent and Carey Price can win games. We need to cut their guys down with speed, wear them down with hits, and spend more time in their zone than they spend in our zone (this includes not taking penalties). Those are my keys to winning the series.

If Subban is defending, he's not a scoring threat. We might need Nash covering Subban which sounds like opposites world...

while true (it shows that Markov lost a step definitely), going into Emelin's corner is usually not a fun thing, Emilin hits a lot and doesnt mind opponents being physical against him (will not rush plays to avoir a hit).

We (Habs) had LOTS of breakaway so far these PO, while a strong forecheck could hurt us, it was to be done wisely as pretty much every D is good enough to send one flying with a stretch pass - as shown in previous two series and trough regular season.

It is a strategy in Habs case actually, sort of a "strong forecheck ? no problem, one of those stretch pass will connect soon".

Doesnt work all the time (we're also icing the puck A LOT) but the possibily of getting a few breakaway every game is very real.

So, strong forecheck sure, but better be a smart forecheck too

 

[Hockey Team]

AV doesn't really shy away from any matchup. He tends to prefer the Stepan line to go power-on-power against the opposition's best.

Against Crosby it was:
36% Stepan
23% Moore
22% Richards
19% Brassard

Matchups are important, but rolling lines is also important.

That's one thing torts did wrong. He was so intent on having the "right" matchups we ended up having guys out on the ice for half the game, and they got burned out.

 

[KingWantsCup]

Just saw a Habs fan with a Gionta jersey on meanwhile I'm rockin my Lundqvist jersey... Just waved my finger and said "no." Lol

 

[Kokoschka]

Made a recap of the past 2 rounds/preview for the next! Lets Go Rangers!

Good work. I especially love how the CBC guy (Hayworth?) sounds when they score against Pittsburgh. Would love to shove it in his face a little more vs MTL.

 

[Kokoschka]

while true (it shows that Markov lost a step definitely), going into Emelin's corner is usually not a fun thing, Emilin hits a lot and doesnt mind opponents being physical against him (will not rush plays to avoir a hit).

We (Habs) had LOTS of breakaway so far these PO, while a strong forecheck could hurt us, it was to be done wisely as pretty much every D is good enough to send one flying with a stretch pass - as shown in previous two series and trough regular season.

It is a strategy in Habs case actually, sort of a "strong forecheck ? no problem, one of those stretch pass will connect soon".

Doesnt work all the time (we're also icing the puck A LOT) but the possibily of getting a few breakaway every game is very real.

So, strong forecheck sure, but better be a smart forecheck too

Yep, that ability really caught my eye vs the Bruins. I also have no idea why Julien didn't adjust there. I mean if I can tell the Bruins are playing into the Habs cards with their gameplan, why can't their coach? We don't have a guy who can make those passes constantly. I'd easily give your D the edge in the offensive department, but I honestly think our guys are better than yours in their own end by a significant margin. That's not saying your guys suck there, I just think the Rangers are top 3 league wide in that regard.

Anyway, we're going to have a lot of close games. Don't know about the series though. Could end in 4 as well as in 7. If the Rangers come up empty-handed in the first two games, this could be a quick one. I had no feeling for this whole thing until waking up today. Inexplicably, right now I'm pessimistic going into this series. I can't tell you why. Even being down 3-1 to the Pens, I remained positive about our chances. I just don't feel it against MTL. Hoping they prove me wrong.

 

[KingWantsCup]

Made a recap of the past 2 rounds/preview for the next! Lets Go Rangers!

Wonderful video. I can tell you put a lot of emphasis on the right players at the 1:30 mark at that part of the song. Keep up the good work.

 

[KingWantsCup]

Even though we're good at this game 7 thing and it's becoming so common, I think everyone's picking Rangers in 6 because the thought of winning game 7 in Montreal is almost unthinkable. Would be a hell of a way to exorcise those Belle Centre demons though, no?

 

[Glen Sathers Cigar]

What is your shutdown line? Who did you have out most often against Crosby for example? It seems your 3rd line is more of an offensive line.

AV played the Stepan line a lot against Crosby, but we don't really have a shut down line like most teams do. We rely on our defensemen more in that regard, so it'd be more important to look at what D pair played against the top lines.

In that respect I'd say AV is comfortable with either McD-Girardi or Staal-Stralman going up against any teams' top line.

 

[ECWHSWI]

Yep, that ability really caught my eye vs the Bruins. I also have no idea why Julien didn't adjust there. I mean if I can tell the Bruins are playing into the Habs cards with their gameplan, why can't their coach? We don't have a guy who can make those passes constantly. I'd easily give your D the edge in the offensive department, but I honestly think our guys are better than yours in their own end by a significant margin. That's not saying your guys suck there, I just think the Rangers are top 3 league wide in that regard.

Anyway, we're going to have a lot of close games. Don't know about the series though. Could end in 4 as well as in 7. If the Rangers come up empty-handed in the first two games, this could be a quick one. I had no feeling for this whole thing until waking up today. Inexplicably, right now I'm pessimistic going into this series. I can't tell you why. Even being down 3-1 to the Pens, I remained positive about our chances. I just don't feel it against MTL. Hoping they prove me wrong.

not disagreeing there, and I think VS the Habs key it to get a lead, we led pretty much the entire serie vs TB and Boston, forcing them to have their D pinch... and BOOM! breakaway, 2 on 1, etc.

my thinking is the stretch passes are there to force the opponents forwards to put on the brakes, defensively our D isnt as strong as yours but if we can (somewhat) kill your forecheck with a few solid long passes, then it's a different game, you'll see blueshirts hesitant in their forecheck and al... opposite is true though, intercept some of them and get a goal or a good scoring chance from the interception, and those long passes will disappear.


haha! yeah! same here, I'm like, OK, our defense play well, we have good depth, Subban is unreal these PO, Price is solid, we play a team game, we have a few clutch players... but... but...

maybe it's because we're getting closer to the real thing, I don't know

 

[Placid]

This could easily be another series that goes to 7 games, the teams seems very evenly matched. Hoping for the Rangers in 6 (or 7).