OT: Sens Lounge -The four seasons edition

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Not condoning unsafe driving, but this is pretty apt. Between 2017 and 2022 (last year the data is available,) there have been no fatalities and only two injuries on Limebank classified as "major" by the City of Ottawa, both of which involving single motor vehicles on clear, dry roads. Generally a telltale sign of speed being at the very least a factor.

(For completeness, there were also 20 "minor" injuries and 19 "minimal" ones.)

RE: speed cameras... I have no problem with them IF there's proper signage indicating where they are ahead of time. If they're intended as a deterrent for speeding, then let's deter the action BEFORE it happens, not play "gotcha" and catch people after the fact. The fines going back into road safety would also be very nice, but that level of transparency from the municipal government seems a little pie-in-the-sky.

There are signs, but they’re small, and easy to miss….. could be that it is on purpose.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

There are signs, but they’re small, and easy to miss….. could be that it is on purpose.

View attachment 817096

Absolutely on purpose. I remember in my early years as a journalist, writing a story about new speed cameras and asking then-Mayor Watson if the signage would be visible and obvious. And the response — which has remain burned in my brain — was an incredulous and dismissive, "No, why would we do that?"

Cash grab through and through. Which is a shame, because it could be a great safety measure if used right. But public cynicism is so incredibly warranted.

 

[ACLEVERNAME]

If it makes anyone feel better, 'electric' and 'always online' vehicles will make the cameras obsolete soon enough. Next level dystopia we're heading into. LMAO

 

[dumbdick]

I dont mind the speed traps, and I'd be a-ok with putting stricter limiters on cars to about 130 and then mostly not enforcing 400 level highways anymore.

But on the speedtraps, i want them to give warnings before tickets. And none of this 10-over bullshit Start at 20 over posted.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

If it makes anyone feel better, 'electric' and 'always online' vehicles will make the cameras obsolete soon enough. Next level dystopia we're heading into. LMAO

I don’t see battery powered EVs being the future… Hydrogen fuel cell powered yes….

I agree with Mr Bean

I love electric vehicles – and was an early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped | Rowan Atkinson

Sadly, keeping your old petrol car may be better than buying an EV, says actor Rowan Atkinson

www.theguardian.com

 

[Micklebot]

I don’t see battery powered EVs being the future… Hydrogen fuel cell powered yes….

I agree with Mr Bean

I love electric vehicles – and was an early adopter. But increasingly I feel duped | Rowan Atkinson

Sadly, keeping your old petrol car may be better than buying an EV, says actor Rowan Atkinson

www.theguardian.com

The funniest part is the editor of Carbon brief (someone currently working in the field rather than someone who studied electrical engineering 50 yrs ago before moving on to a completely unrelated career) offered his response for the very same publication of Mr bean's op Ed a week later debunking many of his claims (with links), but the damage was done, a funny man people recognized from having a turkey stuck on his head has spoken...

Fact check: why Rowan Atkinson is wrong about electric vehicles

Last week we ran a piece by Rowan Atkinson casting doubt on the environmental benefits of electric vehicles. Here Simon Evans of Carbon Brief offers his response

www.theguardian.com

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Battery Powered EVs are not the future. Manufacturers are just beginning to face that realty and some are shutting down their EV divisions…

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-reduce-f-150-lightning-production-2024-01-19/

 

[Micklebot]

Battery Powered EVs are not the future. Manufacturers are just beginning to face that realty and some are shutting down their EV divisions…

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-reduce-f-150-lightning-production-2024-01-19/

So rather than respond to the fact that the original article you posted was riddled with misinformation, you pivot to the next talking point. Unfortunately, it's again a misrepresentation orlf reality

Yes, the F150 failed to meet the very ambitious growth projections ford had, however not for the reason you suggested. Their projected sales were based on a 40k mrsp, but that number had climbed to over 50k (usd) by the time people had to be convinced to buy the car, sales of the F150 Lighting continue to climb, just not at the originally projected rate as people are moving to smaller vehicles in the lineup like the Bronco and ranger.

Meanwhile, EV sales overall have in fact been strong

Chart: US EV sales are having a record-setting year

Ignore the gloomy headlines. Despite some inevitable growing pains, EVs are still on track to transform the U.S. auto industry.

www.canarymedia.com

And projections for sales this year globally are 1 in 5 vehicles sold will be ev.

This Year One in Five Cars Sold Globally Will Be an EV

e360.yale.edu

And some more dispelling of EV myths

Correcting The Record About Electric Vehicle Sales

EV sales are growing year over year and 2023 continues that trend. In the last few years, electric vehicles have taken off in the consumer market

www.energy.gov

 

[coladin]

I dont mind the speed traps, and I'd be a-ok with putting stricter limiters on cars to about 130 and then mostly not enforcing 400 level highways anymore.

But on the speedtraps, i want them to give warnings before tickets. And none of this 10-over bullshit Start at 20 over posted.

Speed limits were developed in an era where seatbelts were invented. Out of date compared to how safe cars are. Europe has higher limits, but also nasty enforcement on their highways, autostradas and autobahns. Could Canadians be happy with a speed limit of 130, but fined at 131?

Stupid drivers will always exist as witnessed this week with that kid who just got his G in the York region only to lose hi slicence going 130 in a 50 zone...the whole world knows there are no police cars on the road enforcing anything which allows for more stupid drivers to do stupid things

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

So rather than respond to the fact that the original article you posted was riddled with misinformation, you pivot to the next talking point. Unfortunately, it's again a misrepresentation orlf reality

Yes, the F150 failed to meet the very ambitious growth projections ford had, however not for the reason you suggested. Their projected sales were based on a 40k mrsp, but that number had climbed to over 50k (usd) by the time people had to be convinced to buy the car, sales of the F150 Lighting continue to climb, just not at the originally projected rate as people are moving to smaller vehicles in the lineup like the Bronco and ranger.

Meanwhile, EV sales overall have in fact been strong

Chart: US EV sales are having a record-setting year

Ignore the gloomy headlines. Despite some inevitable growing pains, EVs are still on track to transform the U.S. auto industry.

www.canarymedia.com

And projections for sales this year globally are 1 in 5 vehicles sold will be ev.

This Year One in Five Cars Sold Globally Will Be an EV

e360.yale.edu

And some more dispelling of EV myths

Correcting The Record About Electric Vehicle Sales

EV sales are growing year over year and 2023 continues that trend. In the last few years, electric vehicles have taken off in the consumer market

www.energy.gov

None of this changes the facts, that in order to update the current electrical grid, to be able to service the demand for electricity if every current vehicle in Canada today were to be replaced with an EV, it would take a minimum of fifty years to rewire entire neighborhoods , build electrical generation plants, educate and train the required workforce to undertake everything for this pie in the sky transformation of the transportion system and industry.

Not to mention that there is not nearly enough raw materials, on this planet, needed to supply the modern world with batteries for the current number of vehicles on the road today, never mind the numbers in the future…. A complete conversion from ICE to battery powered EVs is a dream, and will not happen.

If you just look at one province (British Columbia) … they would need to double the current number of power plants to meet the projected demand for electricity 30 years from now, if all ICE vehicle were replaces with EVs… and that would probably be the same requirements in every province, just in Canada.
Does anyone think that the entire modern world is going to be able to construct enough power plants to roughly double the current generating demand, by 2055, to meet the goals of 100% EVs, currently targeted for 10 or 15 years from now?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-electricity-requirements-for-ground-transportation-2055-1.5341996

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/power-grid-demand-electric-vehicles-1.6440595

 

[Micklebot]

None of this changes the facts, that in order to update the current electrical grid, to be able to service the demand for electricity if every current vehicle in Canada today were to be replaced with an EV, it would take a minimum of fifty years to rewire entire neighborhoods , build electrical generation plants, educate and train the required workforce to undertake everything for this pie in the sky transformation of the transportion system and industry.

Not to mention that there is not nearly enough raw materials, on this planet, needed to supply the modern world with batteries for the current number of vehicles on the road today, never mind the numbers in the future…. A complete conversion from ICE to battery powered EVs is a dream, and will not happen.

If you just look at one province (British Columbia) … they would need to double the current number of power plants to meet the projected demand for electricity 30 years from now, if all ICE vehicle were replaces with EVs… and that would probably be the same requirements in every province, just in Canada.
Does anyone think that the entire modern world is going to be able to construct enough power plants to roughly double the current generating demand, by 2055, to meet the goals of 100% EVs, currently targeted for 10 or 15 years from now?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/b-c-electricity-requirements-for-ground-transportation-2055-1.5341996

Holy cow, you can't help yourself, spout off nonsense, get shown it's nonsense, pivot to the next nonsense talking point, do you work for Exxon PR or something?

Why would would we care if the current infrastructure can't handle an instantaneous switch to all current vehicles going to EV? What a nonsensical argument. 100% New vehicles sales being EV does not mean every vehicle on the road will be an EV,

Making up fake facts like it will take 50 years to adapt the grid to meet ev demands is more garbage misinformation. Ontario has already put out its plan to meet growing demands, we aren't starting from scratch, to double power output by 2050, you're looking at maybe a 3% increase per year, not insignificant but not insurmountable.

 

[dumbdick]

For whatever reason people connect their politics to how they feel about specific technologies, climate science, vaccine efficacy, etc. EVs have gotten mixed up in that.

Pretty weird times.

 

[Micklebot]

For whatever reason people connect their politics to how they feel about specific technologies, climate science, vaccine efficacy, etc. EVs have gotten mixed up in that.

Pretty weird times.

To me, the decision on an EV comes down to will it meet my needs, will it save me money and will it be more convenient.

For my use case, the answer seems to be yes across the board with the only downside being the initial entry cost.

It won't be the best option for everyone right now, but as the technology improves and infrastructure builds up the calculus will change.

 

[dumbdick]

To me, the decision on an EV comes down to will it meet my needs, will it save me money and will it be more convenient.

For my use case, the answer seems to be yes across the board with the only downside being the initial entry cost.

It won't be the best option for everyone right now, but as the technology improves and infrastructure builds up the calculus will change.

Yeah totally. The two people i know who own them seem to love them.

I'm too cheap to pay full sticker on a new car with the prices the way they are now. But I'm definitely going to consider one next time I buy.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah totally. The two people i know who own them seem to love them.

I'm too cheap to pay full sticker on a new car with the prices the way they are now. But I'm definitely going to consider one next time I buy.

Used market is becoming more of an option with EVs now that the technology is becoming more mature.

 

[Ralph Malfredsson]

Battery Powered EVs are not the future. Manufacturers are just beginning to face that realty and some are shutting down their EV divisions…

https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/ford-reduce-f-150-lightning-production-2024-01-19/

no comment on the article but the video has been 100% my EV experience.

Typical Toronto winter - battery efficiency goes to pot. In spring/fall I can sometimes drive Toronto-Ottawa without charging. In winter need to stop to charge once, and sometimes twice. And also some chargers just seem to be down/inefficient only in winter.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Holy cow, you can't help yourself, spout off nonsense, get shown it's nonsense, pivot to the next nonsense talking point, do you work for Exxon PR or something?

Why would would we care if the current infrastructure can't handle an instantaneous switch to all current vehicles going to EV? What a nonsensical argument. 100% New vehicles sales being EV does not mean every vehicle on the road will be an EV,

Making up fake facts like it will take 50 years to adapt the grid to meet ev demands is more garbage misinformation. Ontario has already put out its plan to meet growing demands, we aren't starting from scratch, to double power output by 2050, you're looking at maybe a 3% increase per year, not insignificant but not insurmountable

Not making up fake facts, have heard from many sources, including University Professors much more knowledge on this subject than you an I and especially our government on how this transition would take place.
For example Professor Ian Lee in Ottawa has been interviewed many times on this issue over the past few years, and points out the facts that Canada would have to , at least double its electrical generating capabilities to meat the projected demand for electricity if all ICE vehicles (on the road today) were replaced with BEVs in 15 or 20 years from now, as the current government wants to do.

So Ian Lee crunched the numbers and the time to train the workforce required to build the required new additional power plants, rewire neighbourhoods across the country …the mining of raw materials etc etc would take a minimum for 50 years… so the government’s pipe dream of eliminating ICE vehicles and replacing with BEVs some where between 2035 and 2040 is logistically impossible, and will not happen.

Besides that, the trend of consumers wanting to make the change to EVs is going down, and will disappear once other technologies like hydrogen fuel cells become much more viable options. ….. and hydrogen fuel cells don’t require the massive infrastructure changes required that Battery powered vehicles (BEVs) do.

Besides, BEVs draw from the electrical grid, and in the USA 60% of the electrical generation is powered by Fossil Fuels… not sure what the percentage is in Canada as a whole, but fossil fuels generating electricity for EVs does not help with meeting emission goals the current government is (that they set) obsessed with…. Can you say carbon tax?

I know the smart money is not invested in future of Battery powered EVs, a fact proven by Government subsidies to attract and build battery factories ….. and if you researched where the smart money is being invested, it is in Hydrogen powered EVs.

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Used market is becoming more of an option with EVs now that the technology is becoming more mature.

If you’re saying there are more Used BEVs in the market, I would be asking why the previous owners traded them in.

Also, you have to wonder why when Government subsidies for first time BEVs buyers disappeared, and sales of BEVs dropped as well….

A Million Electric Vehicles Were Sold This Year. Here’s Why That’s a Problem.

The Biden administration is pushing for way more on the road.

nymag.com

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Another thing people may not have not considered…. Maintenance and repairs.

BEVs are much heavier than ICE vehicles, when in collisions, more damage is a result, and the extra weight comes from the Batteries, and that leads to premature wear on the tires…. So in the long run, it is more costly to own, repair and maintain a BEV.

The premature wear on the tires on BEVs cause more toxins to be released into the environment as well.

So just as there’s a downside to,ICE vehicles there are some for BEVs as well

Electric cars are sending tire particles into the soil, air, and water

Electric cars fix one pollution problem—and worsen another. David Zipper writes for The Atlantic.In a nutshell:Just when we seem to be on the cusp of mass EV adoption and preparing to glide forth into a guilt-free, sustainable transportation future, current research compels us to take a serious...

www.dailyclimate.org

https://www.pcmag.com/news/the-unexpected-problem-with-evs-they-tire-quickly

EV Owners Surprised By Rapid Tire Wear

Compared to traditional combustion vehicles, some EV owners report their tires wearing quickly.

www.sciencefriday.com

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/checkup/how-are-you-beating-the-high-cost-of-living-1.6492937/electric-vehicle-repairs-down-the-road-could-be-costly-and-difficult-to-find-says-mechanic-1.6494034

Repairing An Electric Vehicle Could Cost More Than Gasoline Cars: A New Kind Of Sticker Shock

It's early days for truly mass-market electric vehicles, but EVs can be significantly more expensive to repair than internal-combustion equivalents.

www.forbes.com

https://www.kbb.com/car-news/study-evs-cost-more-to-repair-less-to-maintain/

 

[Masked]

So you know of a single street, hwy, etc. in Canada that allows for speeds above 100 km/hr?

Lots of them. Just locally the 417 has speed limits in excess of 100 both east and west of Ottawa.

 

[Masked]

RE: speed cameras... I have no problem with them IF there's proper signage indicating where they are ahead of time. If they're intended as a deterrent for speeding, then let's deter the action BEFORE it happens, not play "gotcha" and catch people after the fact. The fines going back into road safety would also be very nice, but that level of transparency from the municipal government seems a little pie-in-the-sky.

These speed cameras should be vandalized regularly. They're a disgusting tactic from an inept city council to make up revenues they've wasted.

A lot of them are in 40 zones on roads that are built for speeds in excess of 40. If you're doing it to keep kids safe in school zones, then turn them off when there's not going to be any students around. Having them on four lane roads like Woodroffe, Greenbank, Riverside, St Laurent, Innis, etc is brutal.

 

[Micklebot]

If you’re saying there are more Used BEVs in the market, I would be asking why the previous owners traded them in.

You really don't, it's pretty simple, as more people adopt the technology, there will be more on the used market, no different than any other car. Some are leases that have expired, some from rental agencies, others are people looking for the newer model with the latest upgrades. The fear mongering some insist on is rather strange.

Also, you have to wonder why when Government subsidies for first time BEVs buyers disappeared, and sales of BEVs dropped as well….
[URL

There's a host of reasons that drive subsidies and sales numbers, politics being the biggest driver for subsidies, but as the cost comes down more inline with ice and more competition arises, fewer subsidies will be needed.

Sales of EVs may not have met initial projections, but they are still growing, with 2023 setting record numbers, one big factor is fuel prices, since in the end, for many it's a simple cost benefit calculation, and obviously rebates will entice some to make the shift. In the end though, EVs will continue to move forward and eat up a bigger and bigger share of the market as people start to realize they can both save money in the long run and have a more convenient experience,

A Record 1.2 Million EVs Were Sold in the U.S. in 2023, According to Estimates from Kelley Blue Book - Cox Automotive Inc.

Cox Automotive publishes a quarterly Kelley Blue Book new-vehicle sales report enumerating electric vehicle sales.

www.coxautoinc.com

 

[coladin]

Yeah totally. The two people i know who own them seem to love them.

I'm too cheap to pay full sticker on a new car with the prices the way they are now. But I'm definitely going to consider one next time I buy.

I can’t handle the range anxiety, especially in winter. PHEV is the best balance imo

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

 

[Micklebot]

I can’t handle the range anxiety, especially in winter. PHEV is the best balance imo

I like what the so ugly it might be cute BMW i3 did with the range extender, basically a little gasoline generator on it rather than having a full ice engine hooked up to the drivetrain, but they dropped that idea a while back going full electric.

Going to an EV is imo a much easier transition for people with two vehicles, if at first you have a backup option it suddenly isn't a anxiety inducing while you get accustomed to life with an EV.

With the range on many modern EVs i don't see the range being that big an issue for the vast majority of people's driving, if you plug in every night you really shouldn't have to worry. Even in the winter getting 70% of your expected range, you still have 300 km on many of the options, personally I don't even do half that unless I'm going on a road trip.