OT: Sens Lounge -The four seasons edition

[Tnuoc Alucard]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/business/ev-transition-column-don-pittis-1.6667698

 

[coladin]

I like what the so ugly it might be cute BMW i3 did with the range extender, basically a little gasoline generator on it rather than having a full ice engine hooked up to the drivetrain, but they dropped that idea a while back going full electric.

Going to an EV is imo a much easier transition for people with two vehicles, if at first you have a backup option it suddenly isn't a anxiety inducing while you get accustomed to life with an EV.

With the range on many modern EVs i don't see the range being that big an issue for the vast majority of people's driving, if you plug in every night you really shouldn't have to worry. Even in the winter getting 70% of your expected range, you still have 300 km on many of the options, personally I don't even do half that unless I'm going on a road trip.

Agreed. As a daily driver, city commute car, i fill up about every twn days, so about 70-80km a day. I have a garage so the car could charge overnight and I can always be prepared. But having a family car for trips, there is no way I could trust an EV.

 

[Beech]

My soul requires a sports car. It feels incredible and satisfying. The sounds, the rush , the adrenaline. It gives satisfaction to a life of hard work, and you can enjoy the fruits of your labour.

Next time you are on LImebank let me know, and I will pin it in 2nd gear, and you may go deaf, but you also may get a stiffy.

While we are at it, why have fast food? It will kill you , you know. I think they should also ration portions of food, like, why eat more than you need? I think a bowl rice and beans will provide enough nutrients and keep all fine citizens satisfied.

I say we go back to prohibition too. Who needs alcohol? Not good for you either.

Anything else Beech?

You enjoy a police state, and to be controlled. I get that. But photo radar can have a positive purpose to society. I like red light cameras. I like speed enforcement in school zones. But the slippery slope is what libertarians and conservatives are always concerned about , and lo and behold, now they are putting up speed cameras that are not school zones. And they are not saving anyone. They only generate money to a city council that is enjoying this police state that is being created, and not saving anyone.

When was the last time there was any accident of consequence or fatality on Limebank, a perfect stretch of road , dumb to be utilized as a road and not part of a highway, but there it is. You put a camera there, who are you saving. No one. And I am glad someone spray painted the camera on Riverside

your soul can have any sports car it wants.. Your soul is entitled to any purchase that you can afford and desire.

Your soul does not entitle you to break the law. Nor does it entitle you jeopardize the quality of life of others.

Anyone who can afford a high performance car, buy it. You help the economy. Those that can afford SUV's that are big enough and powerful enough to move a building. Buy it.

I can make a small argument that; "thanks for sending oil money to OPEC and Putin, etc".. But the reality, most of the money is in taxes.. So, go ahead burn fuel. I ride and walk everywhere, let gas hit $100 a litre, it is no skin off my nose.

What is an issue? because I walk and cycle everywhere. Because I have a home and because I would like to enjoy the outdoors as much as possible, I do not want to be killed, I do not want to chock to death on pollution. I do not want to leave all my windows and doors closed, because noise from fools in vehicles, traveling at unlawful speed, exist.

My view on life is simple, do whatever you want to do, just don't endanger me.. Once your freedoms endanger mine, then I have issues.

If a person wants to smoke, smoke your f***ing brains out. At $20 a pack, with cigarettes being an internal industry.. f*** go.... One problem, health care is shared.. Now your smoking clogs up my hospital and eats up my tax dollar. Have an American or German system, where if you get really sick, it's good bye home, and F You to every body. Go smoke your brains out. The quicker you die, the more I benefit. I will buy that home of yours at half price, because you need the money for health care.

Coladin old buddy, you buy yourself as many sports cars as you need.. Drive them 24 hours a day. Just speed in someone else's neighborhood. I don't give a f***, as long as someone else is being f***ed by your speeding.

 

[bicboi64]

Does anyone have any resort recommendations near Ottawa (1-1.5 hours west of ottawa, nothing in Quebec) that you'd suggest? My partner wants to go somewhere with spas, massages, nature and all that crap.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

To me, the decision on an EV comes down to will it meet my needs, will it save me money and will it be more convenient.

For my use case, the answer seems to be yes across the board with the only downside being the initial entry cost.

It won't be the best option for everyone right now, but as the technology improves and infrastructure builds up the calculus will change.

I'd be of the same mind.

Right now, a fully electric would be hard as we drive long distances to see our family. But one EV for commuting would be great. It's too bad I'm way too cheap to trade in my 11 year old Corolla. I'm running that thing until it dies! She owes me nothing!

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

Does anyone have any resort recommendations near Ottawa (1-1.5 hours west of ottawa, nothing in Quebec) that you'd suggest? My partner wants to go somewhere with spas, massages, nature and all that crap.

Pretty sure there is a spa out that way that's exactly that. Friends of mine go to Ottawa from Toronto every year for a girls trip.

Votre escapade mieux-être en nature | Nordik Spa-Nature, Chelsea QC

Sorry it is in Quebec. I'm no help! Unless you come Toronto way

 

[bicboi64]

Pretty sure there is a spa out that way that's exactly that. Friends of mine go to Ottawa from Toronto every year for a girls trip.

Votre escapade mieux-être en nature | Nordik Spa-Nature, Chelsea QC

Sorry it is in Quebec. I'm no help! Unless you come Toronto way

Lol we're in Toronto/GTA, but trying to get out of the area. If you have any recommendations I'd love to hear them. Just figured most here would be in the ottawa area

 

[Beech]

Lol we're in Toronto/GTA, but trying to get out of the area. If you have any recommendations I'd love to hear them. Just figured most here would be in the ottawa area

there are places in Kingston and Belleville.. That county (Prince Edward/hasting/Frontenac) has spas and wineries..

Do a google search.

My wife went to one some 22, 23 years ago.. I cannot even begin to remember the name.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

Speed limits were developed in an era where seatbelts were invented. Out of date compared to how safe cars are. Europe has higher limits, but also nasty enforcement on their highways, autostradas and autobahns. Could Canadians be happy with a speed limit of 130, but fined at 131?

Stupid drivers will always exist as witnessed this week with that kid who just got his G in the York region only to lose hi slicence going 130 in a 50 zone...the whole world knows there are no police cars on the road enforcing anything which allows for more stupid drivers to do stupid things

Cars are safer, but people aren't.

I think it's easy to forget, we have people between the ages of 16 and 95 behind the wheel. We have people driving who just pulled a double shift at their jobs. We have people driving to a funeral or hospital for a loved one. We have someone driving who just broke up with their soulmate. We have someone driving who is one missed paycheck away from losing their apartment.

Point is, the roads are not filled with top level F1 drivers. They're filled with mistake-prone humans, who definitely need those extra seconds of reaction time to avoid hitting whatever dangers happen to be on the road. That is the reason why we have speed limits. We can build cars that protect the driver and passengers from 200 km/h collisions....but that doesn't help the bicyclist or the pedestrian or dog on the road.

Speed cameras suck...but they're necessary these days.

 

[Here I Pageau Again]

Lol we're in Toronto/GTA, but trying to get out of the area. If you have any recommendations I'd love to hear them. Just figured most here would be in the ottawa area

Blue mountain's Scandinave spa is really good. I've actually been there. Plus the area is pretty nice.

Also Vetta spa.

Both similar. Both expensive. They are really nice though and if you want relaxing, spa like weekend, they both deliver.

 

[NyQuil]

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Agreed. As a daily driver, city commute car, i fill up about every twn days, so about 70-80km a day. I have a garage so the car could charge overnight and I can always be prepared. But having a family car for trips, there is no way I could trust an EV.

To own a BEV (Battery Electric Vehicle) and to use it as a ”Daily Driver “ and expecting to recharge it using a typical 120V outlet, which everyone already has in their garage today,….. you may be able to get by, depending on how far you would drive it during the day, the weather conditions and other factors, as you would never be able to fully recharge the BEV overnight…it would Days to fully recharge…. So one would be wise to install a better faster charging system. A friend of mine bought a Mustang BEV a couple of years ago, and it came equipped with a cable to recharge it using the typical electric Stove outlet most people have…. So the same outlet would be needed in your garage….. and if and when you move, then you would be needing to install another at your new residence.

https://www.caranddriver.com/shopping-advice/a32600212/ev-charging-time/

https://barrieheatingcooling.ca/blog/how-much-does-it-cost-to-install-an-ev-charger-in-ontario/

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Speed limits were developed in an era where seatbelts were invented. Out of date compared to how safe cars are. Europe has higher limits, but also nasty enforcement on their highways, autostradas and autobahns. Could Canadians be happy with a speed limit of 130, but fined at 131?

Stupid drivers will always exist as witnessed this week with that kid who just got his G in the York region only to lose hi slicence going 130 in a 50 zone...the whole world knows there are no police cars on the road enforcing anything which allows for more stupid drivers to do stupid things

the Interstate Highway system in the USA, and the 400 series in Ontario, were designed and built when the speed limits were 70 miles per hour or 113 kph. So we can assume these highways could have been designed to safely accommodate speeding vehicle for that time.

So today, these highways can accommodate a higher speed limit without sacrificing saftey… and if you take into account that any modern car today, is better designed and functionally many times better to handle the higher speeds than the vehicle in the 50s, 60s and 70s.

we’ve seen in the Ottawa area, the 417 in both directions have increased their speed limits to 110 once you’ve cleared the greater metro area of Ottawa.


I don’t think we should consider raising the limits any higher as there are more idiots on the roads, texting and being distracted in other ways than there were in the last…. I’ve seen drivers watching movies on a laptop placed up on the dash, below the rear view mirror, enroute to Florida a number of year ago…. Distracting Driving is much more dangerous than higher speed limits.

Now we have idiots who think it’s fine, to drive, while wearing an Apple Vision Pro…..

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I think people who buy EVs are like the people that put their windshield wipers up in the air prior to a snow storm

 

[jbeck5]

To me, the decision on an EV comes down to will it meet my needs, will it save me money and will it be more convenient.

For my use case, the answer seems to be yes across the board with the only downside being the initial entry cost.

It won't be the best option for everyone right now, but as the technology improves and infrastructure builds up the calculus will change.

I'm the same but I feel like it will be years and years before and electric vehicle will make sense to me.

My car is nothing special. It's a Hyundai genesis coupe 3.8 with a 6 speed manual. It does 0-60 in 5-5.5 seconds stock. I've made a couple little upgrades and get under 5 seconds consistently. It cost me 10 grand and never has issues. I've replaced tires and brakes. That's it. Had it 6 years now. Has touch screen and GPS and seat heaters etc. sure, it's missing heated steering wheel or air conditioned seats but it's relatively modern interior.

Top speed is about 245km/h. Not that I ever go for those speeds, but the point is it keeps accelerating well over 200.

To replace this cars performance, the base Tesla 3 which starts at 55k plus tax, only does 0-100 in 6.1 seconds with a top speed of 225.

So I'd be spending like 65k after fees and taxes to get a car (instant electric torque and everything) that is slower in acceleration, top speed, handling, and braking, and I have to pay 6-7 times the price of my car to get worse performance?

If you're spending 6-7 times your current car, you would expect to get noticeable performance increase.

So now I have to go to the performance/long range model...

That one is like 65k plus fees and tax which comes to about 75-80k. So I have to spend 7-8 times my current car to get a boost in performance.

How long will that take to pay itself off compared to my current car?

80k Tesla minus 10k Hyundai =70k

I use about 100 a month on gas. Let's say I could charge for $20 a month. That's $80 savings a month.

70,000/80= 875 months

About 73 years to make up the difference in price.


Is my math wrong here?

It seems like it would only be worth it if you can make up the difference in under 10 years... So roughly driving 8 times more.

So if I put $800 a month in gas, It would take roughly 10 years to break even.

 

[jbeck5]

Used market is becoming more of an option with EVs now that the technology is becoming more mature.

There's still a lack of options in new or used electric cars.

For example:

What's the cheapest RWD 2 door electric coupe? Is there one?

I see plenty of RWD 2 door coupes out and about. No electric options.

And how long before those options are used and affordable? Electric cars have been around a decade and there's still no affordable options unless they have crazy mileage.

So if 10 years isn't enough for cheap used options, and there's currently no new electric coupes/sportcars being made, what is it gonna take before they hit the used market? 30 years?

 

[branch]

New Radar Speed Camera now activated (about a week ago) along Hunt Club Road, between Albion Road and Conroy Road… close to the McDonalds/Tim Hortons/Gas Station…. Speed limit is now 60 Kms, dropped down from 80 Kms a few years back, but the majority of drivers drive very close to 80 Kms or more….. there used to by Police Radar Traps along that stretch for a numbers of years, after the speed limit was dropped 20 Kms a few years back….. this stretch of Hunt Club is very similar to the Stretch between Conroy road and Hawthorne road, where the speed limit is still 80 Kms…. The Camera is located just about where the car coming towards you ( in the picture ) is, and you can see the wall Barrier along that stretch of Hunt Club for as far as you can see….. the Speed Camera is there solely for the purpose of making money for the City

View attachment 816982

I love when these get vandalized. This is such a disgusting money grab and people that simp for them are pathetic

 

[Micklebot]

I'm the same but I feel like it will be years and years before and electric vehicle will make sense to me.

My car is nothing special. It's a Hyundai genesis coupe 3.8 with a 6 speed manual. It does 0-60 in 5-5.5 seconds stock. I've made a couple little upgrades and get under 5 seconds consistently. It cost me 10 grand and never has issues. I've replaced tires and brakes. That's it. Had it 6 years now. Has touch screen and GPS and seat heaters etc. sure, it's missing heated steering wheel or air conditioned seats but it's relatively modern interior.

Top speed is about 245km/h. Not that I ever go for those speeds, but the point is it keeps accelerating well over 200.

To replace this cars performance, the base Tesla 3 which starts at 55k plus tax, only does 0-100 in 6.1 seconds with a top speed of 225.

So I'd be spending like 65k after fees and taxes to get a car (instant electric torque and everything) that is slower in acceleration, top speed, handling, and braking, and I have to pay 6-7 times the price of my car to get worse performance?

If you're spending 6-7 times your current car, you would expect to get noticeable performance increase.

So now I have to go to the performance/long range model...

That one is like 65k plus fees and tax which comes to about 75-80k. So I have to spend 7-8 times my current car to get a boost in performance.

How long will that take to pay itself off compared to my current car?

80k Tesla minus 10k Hyundai =70k

I use about 100 a month on gas. Let's say I could charge for $20 a month. That's $80 savings a month.

70,000/80= 875 months

About 73 years to make up the difference in price.


Is my math wrong here?

It seems like it would only be worth it if you can make up the difference in under 10 years... So roughly driving 8 times more.

So if I put $800 a month in gas, It would take roughly 10 years to break even.

Ok, a couple points

Top speed is pretty irrelevant, unless your on a track I suppose, or driving down the autobahn, even the most modest of vehicles goes well beyond what is legal, or safe for that matter, on public roads,


The Hyundai coupe was a 30-40k car, they split the brand and now I'm not sure what the equivalent is, maybe a gv60 but that's more of a crossover, a brand new genesis is 50-70k, the Hyundai model was last made in 2016, so your comparing an 8 year old car minimum to a new one.

Model 3 from 2018 can be found for about 25k on the used market, google suggests a slightly faster 0-60 of 5.6 on that than you suggested, but YMMV. If a hypothetical 2016 or earlier model 3 did exist, you probably would be getting it down under 20k. You can find some used model S from 2014 for around 20k, those are more performance oriented than the model 3.

I don't think anybody should be changing cars for the sake of it. So if your genesis is running fine, great. But when it comes time to replace it, you likely won't be getting another one since it's a fairly old model now and would be tough to find in good shape. I also don't think the EV market is targeting low cost performance yet, so there's that.

 

[jbeck5]

I love when these get vandalized. This is such a disgusting money grab and people that simp for them are pathetic

Agreed. If I was younger, I would probably be vandalizing these with my buddies at 2AM after a few drinks. Pure money grab.

 

[jbeck5]

Ok, a couple points

Top speed is pretty irrelevant, unless your on a track I suppose, or driving down the autobahn, even the most modest of vehicles goes well beyond what is legal, or safe for that matter, on public roads,


The Hyundai coupe was a 30-40k car, they split the brand and now I'm not sure what the equivalent is, maybe a gv60 but that's more of a crossover, a brand new genesis is 50-70k, the Hyundai model was last made in 2016, so your comparing an 8 year old car minimum to a new one.

Model 3 from 2018 can be found for about 25k on the used market, google suggests a slightly faster 0-60 of 5.6 on that than you suggested, but YMMV. If a hypothetical 2016 or earlier model 3 did exist, you probably would be getting it down under 20k. You can find some used model S from 2014 for around 20k, those are more performance oriented than the model 3.

I don't think anybody should be changing cars for the sake of it. So if your genesis is running fine, great. But when it comes time to replace it, you likely won't be getting another one since it's a fairly old model now and would be tough to find in good shape. I also don't think the EV market is targeting low cost performance yet, so there's that.

Top speed is relevant for me which is why I mentioned it. I notice that cars the generally have higher top speeds usually do also have better high speed acceleration. Obviously power to weight ratio is a factor.

I realize I'm comparing an 8 year old car to a new one...I'm saying I'm very ok with getting an older car. It's all about bang for your buck, or performance for your buck. Within reason. I also care about reliability and repair costs.

Like I said, a model 3 is actually noticeably worse performance than the genesis, so I wouldn't be looking at that car. It's a non starter.


So the performance model it is...I've seen some affordable prices, but they have like 300,000km on it.

When I bought my genesis for 10k, I had parameters that I would hold today.


I want 2 door.
I want RWD.
I want under 100,000km
I want over 300hp

I was finding plenty of options for 10-15k for gas cars.

I wonder what my options would be for electric cars.

Also, the Tesla model 3 isn't a 2 door, so it's also automatically eliminated from my criteria.

 

[coladin]

Top speed is relevant for me which is why I mentioned it. I notice that cars the generally have higher top speeds usually do also have better high speed acceleration. Obviously power to weight ratio is a factor.

I realize I'm comparing an 8 year old car to a new one...I'm saying I'm very ok with getting an older car. It's all about bang for your buck, or performance for your buck. Within reason. I also care about reliability and repair costs.

Like I said, a model 3 is actually noticeably worse performance than the genesis, so I wouldn't be looking at that car. It's a non starter.


So the performance model it is...I've seen some affordable prices, but they have like 300,000km on it.

When I bought my genesis for 10k, I had parameters that I would hold today.


I want 2 door.
I want RWD.
I want under 100,000km
I want over 300hp

I was finding plenty of options for 10-15k for gas cars.

I wonder what my options would be for electric cars.

Also, the Tesla model 3 isn't a 2 door, so it's also automatically eliminated from my criteria.

Mustang is the way to go. Had two of them and loved them dearly

 

[jbeck5]

Mustang is the way to go. Had two of them and loved them dearly

I was saying what would be my options in the electric world.

I'm making the point if you want affordable bang for your buck for performance, you can find a lot of used sportscars for 10-20k that I can afford to pay full in cash. There isn't any optionsin electric unless they have crazy mileage.

Low mileage sportscar thats electric and affordable is non existent.

 

[Micklebot]

I was saying what would be my options in the electric world.

I'm making the point if you want affordable bang for your buck for performance, you can find a lot of used sportscars for 10-20k that I can afford to pay full in cash. There isn't any optionsin electric unless they have crazy mileage.

Low mileage sportscar thats electric and affordable is non existent.

2021 Mustang mach-e with under 100000k will set you back about 35k, that's the first model year, so lower prices will eventually be available and it's targeting a more sportscar demographic. 0-60 is about 5 sec, but I think they are all AWD. Also not a 2 door,

In terms of top speed as a proxy for acceleration at higher speeds, idk how reliable that is, but at least I understand what you're actually after. My understanding is EVs tend to do very well at accelerating at speed, for example the Musstang mach E does 50-70 in 2.77 secs (or 2.03 in the GT edition), that's comparable to a corvette C8 at 2.6 secs.

Certainly you are right, the EV market isn't ideal for your use case it seems.

 

[jbeck5]

2021 Mustang mach-e with under 100000k will set you back about 35k, that's the first model year, so lower prices will eventually be available and it's targeting a more sportscar demographic. 0-60 is about 5 sec, but I think they are all AWD. Also not a 2 door,

In terms of top speed as a proxy for acceleration at higher speeds, idk how reliable that is, but at least I understand what you're actually after. My understanding is EVs tend to do very well at accelerating at speed, for example the Musstang mach E does 50-70 in 2.77 secs (or 2.03 in the GT edition), that's comparable to a corvette C8 at 2.6 secs.

Certainly you are right, the EV market isn't ideal for your use case it seems.

Yeah, not looking for an SUV. I like a sportcar look. That means no hot hatch either. No sports sedan. No performance pickup either.

I find it crazy that not a single company has just made a cheap EV sportscar.

Imagine taking the powertrain of a base model 3, but putting it into a tiny 2 seater. I'm sure that thing would go and cost less for way less parts...and be lighter.

I understand they aren't dominating sales, but most companies do make 1 or multiple RWD coupes...but none are EV.

 

[Micklebot]

Yeah, not looking for an SUV. I like a sportcar look. That means no hot hatch either. No sports sedan. No performance pickup either.

I find it crazy that not a single company has just made a cheap EV sportscar.

Imagine taking the powertrain of a base model 3, but putting it into a tiny 2 seater. I'm sure that thing would go and cost less for way less parts...and be lighter.

I understand they aren't dominating sales, but most companies do make 1 or multiple RWD coupes...but none are EV.

I think part of it is the demographic that loves ports cars also loves the roar of the engine, which is notably absent from EVs...
Also, you probably don't get to tinker with an EV as much, can't change out the air intake to take out an extra 20 HP or whatever.